TVR still scares the sh*te out of me....
Discussion
I have owned my TVR (MK1 Tuscan) for almost 6 months now, and its by faaaar the scariest car I own/ have ever owned!!
I was having a hoon around a very very empty B-road the other day and even changing down gear slid the back out very slightly! How long did it take you guys to get used to these things?
On a side note, it appears I have an almost identical garage to Garlick, so if your reading this can I please have a job since I have such great taste in cars
I was having a hoon around a very very empty B-road the other day and even changing down gear slid the back out very slightly! How long did it take you guys to get used to these things?
On a side note, it appears I have an almost identical garage to Garlick, so if your reading this can I please have a job since I have such great taste in cars
When i bought my Chim the seller warned me about changing down at speed...he advised friction braking at the smae time, not just using the gearbox and engine to slow down. Within the first week of having the car i was making haste and meant to go from 4th to 5th but ended up going down to third....the back end got decidedly wayward!!!! completely accidental but the girl next to me looked a bit pale!!
Needless to say i'm now far more familiar with the 'box and car in general, although i know it can sooo easily turn around and bit me in the ass if i get cocky. A car to be respected! and it's only a baby 4.0 (all be it a HC )
Needless to say i'm now far more familiar with the 'box and car in general, although i know it can sooo easily turn around and bit me in the ass if i get cocky. A car to be respected! and it's only a baby 4.0 (all be it a HC
)This should not be the case. Unless in wet conditions with a clumsy down-change not matching revs (its a reasonably high compression engine so can have a braking effect on rear wheels). Suggest you check the following as your driving experience should only be as much of a sweaty palmed experience as YOU choose to make it, not the car:
1. Tyre condition/make/tread (old tyres can be awful, as can trackday tyres in heavy rain for example)
2. Have a FULL geometry check done by a good reputable specialist (not many beer tokens and can transform
a car). Quite a few TVRs MAY have been set up with string, plumb lines and some chewing gum!
3. Look at the condition of the shocks/springs - there are some great after-market shock kits
4. Research various suspension mods mentioned on Tuscan forums (think there are spacers etc)
5. Adjust driving style and possibly look at one of the Ride and Drive courses
6. Avoid deep puddles at speed!
Look at all the points above and then enjoy. They are a phenomenal car when set up right
1. Tyre condition/make/tread (old tyres can be awful, as can trackday tyres in heavy rain for example)
2. Have a FULL geometry check done by a good reputable specialist (not many beer tokens and can transform
a car). Quite a few TVRs MAY have been set up with string, plumb lines and some chewing gum!
3. Look at the condition of the shocks/springs - there are some great after-market shock kits
4. Research various suspension mods mentioned on Tuscan forums (think there are spacers etc)
5. Adjust driving style and possibly look at one of the Ride and Drive courses
6. Avoid deep puddles at speed!
Look at all the points above and then enjoy. They are a phenomenal car when set up right
As above. Try and learn how to heel and toe for braking and changing down the box, takes a bit of time but worth having a go. Also if you are just changing down a cog or two for overtaking rev match by giving the throttle a little blip between clutch disengaging and engaging. Again takes a bit of practice to get it right but worth the effort .......mainly for the fun of it!
'kinell! Do some guys really down-change badly enough to lock the rears? Certainly wouldn't want to buy a car from these owners, that sort of strain on the transmission is absolutely brutal. Buy an old car (or hire one) and practise clutchless changes and you will soon master the art of matching revs or, if totally inept, buggering the gearbox. Glad my old man taught me the art of double de-clutching and heel & toeing.
I agree that they can be made really good, but anything with a quick rack, 350hp and 1000kg is going to be on the edge. Rear wheel drive, no traction control and relatively skinny tyres makes it a challenge to drive on the edge and good for it. Anyone jumping out of a Subaru/Evo or Porsche will realise the difference very very quickly.
Spacers
Shocks
Bump steer (Which almost caught me out on a country road whilst going quickly) currently
Geo setup
Tyres/pressure/condition
suspension condition
All good things though and I have got to about half way.
Spacers
Shocks
Bump steer (Which almost caught me out on a country road whilst going quickly) currently
Geo setup
Tyres/pressure/condition
suspension condition
All good things though and I have got to about half way.
Appreciate all the replys guys thanks!
..................
Oww and for the record I'd put money on it my Tuscan gets treated with more care than the majority on the road.
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willtvr said:
'kinell! Do some guys really down-change badly enough to lock the rears? Certainly wouldn't want to buy a car from these owners, that sort of strain on the transmission is absolutely brutal. Buy an old car (or hire one) and practise clutchless changes and you will soon master the art of matching revs or, if totally inept, buggering the gearbox. Glad my old man taught me the art of double de-clutching and heel & toeing.
Did I say I locked the rear wheels up? "Kinell" Do some people not read the posts there replying to.... Oww and for the record I'd put money on it my Tuscan gets treated with more care than the majority on the road.
brad.noble said:
Did I say I locked the rear wheels up? .
Must've done to lose control momentarily, unless you had planned the back to step out ?ETA - I went on a one2one coaching half day on monday and funnily enough we covered exactly this subject. I had always been a fan of engine braking (combined with double declutch) - the car just felt more under control to me than under pedal braking - and I have never ever lost the back in those circs., wet or dry. However, the coach - Ed Moore - pointed out two main points (other than potential to misjudge and lock rears). Firstly, braking through the gears costs too much lap time and secondly brake consumables are much cheaper to replace than worn engine/transmission/driveline components.
I didn't master heel and toe in the 40 minutes or so we devoted to it from well into 5th gear down in my "strong" chim 500 (282bhp dyno'd), but I fluked it on a couple of runs. Definitely the way forward. Practice required and one of those things that will doubtless just "come together" all of a sudden, but would recommend you get coaching on the technique.
You might argue that your Tuscan is so much more powerful that my comments are irrelevant, but the coaching was in advance of rebuilding the 5.0 and supercharging it - underway as of yesterday with Jamie Rogers of Castle Automotive Performance (Castle Racing Engines to the cognoscenti)- to 400bhp/440ftlbs.
The coaching was overdue in my case and I respectfully suggest for you too by the sound of it. It's one thing talking it, but with these cars you need to KNOW you can walk it..
Depending on where you are in the country, get in touch with Graham Walden (Blackcat Racing - TVRCC Championship winner I believe), or Haircutmike on PH or Ed Moore at http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk. Budget for £350 or so for a half day one2one - I had an entire airfield to myself for 3hours and a blush free experience.
Edited by Jammy Dodger on Wednesday 6th July 08:39
Jammy Dodger said:
Must've done to lose control momentarily, unless you had planned the back to step out ?
ETA - I went on a one2one coaching half day on monday and funnily enough we covered exactly this subject. I had always been a fan of engine braking (combined with double declutch) - the car just felt more under control to me than under pedal braking - and I have never ever lost the back in those circs., wet or dry. However, the coach - Ed Moore - pointed out two main points (other than potential to misjudge and lock rears). Firstly, braking through the gears costs too much lap time and secondly brake consumables are much cheaper to replace than worn engine/transmission/driveline components.
I didn't master heel and toe in the 40 minutes or so we devoted to it from well into 5th gear down in my "strong" chim 500 (282bhp dyno'd), but I fluked it on a couple of runs. Definitely the way forward. Practice required and one of those things that will doubtless just "come together" all of a sudden, but would recommend you get coaching on the technique.
You might argue that your Tuscan is so much more powerful that my comments are irrelevant, but the coaching was in advance of rebuilding the 5.0 and supercharging it - underway as of yesterday with Jamie Rogers of Castle Automotive Performance (Castle Racing Engines to the cognoscenti)- to 400bhp/440ftlbs.
The coaching was overdue in my case and I respectfully suggest for you too by the sound of it. It's one thing talking it, but with these cars you need to KNOW you can walk it..
Depending on where you are in the country, get in touch with Graham Walden (Blackcat Racing - TVRCC Championship winner I believe), or Haircutmike on PH or Ed Moore at http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk. Budget for £350 or so for a half day one2one - I had an entire airfield to myself for 3hours and a blush free experience.
I might just do that, cheers. ETA - I went on a one2one coaching half day on monday and funnily enough we covered exactly this subject. I had always been a fan of engine braking (combined with double declutch) - the car just felt more under control to me than under pedal braking - and I have never ever lost the back in those circs., wet or dry. However, the coach - Ed Moore - pointed out two main points (other than potential to misjudge and lock rears). Firstly, braking through the gears costs too much lap time and secondly brake consumables are much cheaper to replace than worn engine/transmission/driveline components.
I didn't master heel and toe in the 40 minutes or so we devoted to it from well into 5th gear down in my "strong" chim 500 (282bhp dyno'd), but I fluked it on a couple of runs. Definitely the way forward. Practice required and one of those things that will doubtless just "come together" all of a sudden, but would recommend you get coaching on the technique.
You might argue that your Tuscan is so much more powerful that my comments are irrelevant, but the coaching was in advance of rebuilding the 5.0 and supercharging it - underway as of yesterday with Jamie Rogers of Castle Automotive Performance (Castle Racing Engines to the cognoscenti)- to 400bhp/440ftlbs.
The coaching was overdue in my case and I respectfully suggest for you too by the sound of it. It's one thing talking it, but with these cars you need to KNOW you can walk it..
Depending on where you are in the country, get in touch with Graham Walden (Blackcat Racing - TVRCC Championship winner I believe), or Haircutmike on PH or Ed Moore at http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk. Budget for £350 or so for a half day one2one - I had an entire airfield to myself for 3hours and a blush free experience.
Edited by Jammy Dodger on Wednesday 6th July 08:39
Maybe I explained it wrong, but you just wouldnt call what happened "locking the rear wheels up" when I changed down a gear I wasn't even in the high RPM range, maybe there was something on the road I slipped on?
Im not that bad of a driver, I can drift my Mercedes E-class completely under control!
I don't think you locked the rears.....haven't heard of that before. I think what CAN happen on a damp or wet surface or on an imperfection or grip change is to induce a differential of road speed to tyre speed ...so not a full lock up but a lessening of traction giving a feeling of instability. Fine line I guess?
Anyway, check as much as you can that's been mentioned as It's a fab car and will reward you in buckets when dialled in
Anyway, check as much as you can that's been mentioned as It's a fab car and will reward you in buckets when dialled in
Targarama said:
Spend a few quid on an advanced driving course or adjust your driving style. There is no reason to be afraid if you drive properly.
+1 - Ride Drive would be an excellent choice.Also buy a copy of Roadcraft and use the 5 stages of car control - Roadcraft says to use your brakes to get to the appropriate speed approaching any hazard, then change gear - I also use heel/toe to blip the throttle to match engine/gearbox speeds.
Changing your driving style should minimise the scary bits (which still do very occasionally happen, but are less scary if you are prepared for them!)
Have fun!
brad.noble said:
Appreciate all the replys guys thanks!
..................
Oww and for the record I'd put money on it my Tuscan gets treated with more care than the majority on the road.
Be as pedantic as you like, lets just call it poor gearchanging due to lack of experience/ability and leave it at that...................
willtvr said:
'kinell! Do some guys really down-change badly enough to lock the rears? Certainly wouldn't want to buy a car from these owners, that sort of strain on the transmission is absolutely brutal. Buy an old car (or hire one) and practise clutchless changes and you will soon master the art of matching revs or, if totally inept, buggering the gearbox. Glad my old man taught me the art of double de-clutching and heel & toeing.
Did I say I locked the rear wheels up? "Kinell" Do some people not read the posts there replying to.... Oww and for the record I'd put money on it my Tuscan gets treated with more care than the majority on the road.
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