4 weeks with the Recruiters
Discussion
I've had enough of the concentrated new job search thing. So I thought I'd throw up some reasons WHY people think Recruiters are idiots! 
Highlights include.
Agent1 says client wants to see you. I said "great, can do X,Y and Z days". "Ok" he says and goes away.
Agent2 phones me 5 hours later. Same manufacturer but different group / location. "Fine send over my CV".
5 mins later Agent2 comes back and says "you have an interview with them already?" I say "not to my knowledge and you were talking about somewhere else" but no, she was taling about the same place (only 10miles difference annoying since her first question related to the fact it's a mile away)
Agent1 STILL hasn't told me about this interview! Wonder when it is?
Highlights include.
- One RC agent offering me a Halfords AutoCentre role. (twice on different days) Which I declined saying I want to stay with main dealers. He then offered me a role with the AA recovery service!
- Being offered Mr Clutch (again twice!) on a temporary 1 week contract and then the lady getting the arse and hanging up when I declined!
- Blatent fishing for the "maybe" if I leave then my job becomes available
- Blatent fishing for "other places you've been interviewed"
- Another 1 week ONLY contract with a Toyota dealer. I have NO experience of Toyota at all! This ain't fricking temping. I have 300Kg of tools to shift every time! Why would I leave one company for a 1 week contract anyway!
- Telling them Chiswick W4 was too far (traffic/time) from my base in Surrey so they offered me Chingford. I said "in Essex?" they said well it's NW London really! How is that closer?
- Agents asking me where I what sort of locations I would work in. (Fair enough) But stop asking me EVERY time you phone to offer me another crap job. Make a fricking note!
- One Agent giving me the phone number for a service manager and asking me to arrange an interview. I did. I didn't get the job. Well I assume not, Agent never actually bothered to find out and the interviewer never returned my calls!
- Multiple times Agents saying 1 branch of a group only to then clarify it's the other branch miles away.
- The aformentioned discrepancies in what town is in what county. Was told Wokingham in Surrey. I said "WokingHAM Berkshire or WOKING in Surrey?" "I don't know" she said.
- Job advertised on a Wednesday on a well known recruitment site. Applied and phoned hour later. Recrutier not in, back tomorrow. This goes on for 4 working days. Me phoning, them not in or returning my calls. Gave up! Eventually he calls back a week later and offers me a different job miles away. What about this other job. "Oh that was filled last month" Why was it readvertsied? "clerical error" f
k right off! - Being told that my CV doesn't have a stable and specific enough background. Interesting, 14 years doing this. What more could I do?
Agent1 says client wants to see you. I said "great, can do X,Y and Z days". "Ok" he says and goes away.
Agent2 phones me 5 hours later. Same manufacturer but different group / location. "Fine send over my CV".
5 mins later Agent2 comes back and says "you have an interview with them already?" I say "not to my knowledge and you were talking about somewhere else" but no, she was taling about the same place (only 10miles difference annoying since her first question related to the fact it's a mile away)
Agent1 STILL hasn't told me about this interview! Wonder when it is?
Oh shush! Are you suggesting that EVERYONE is wrong? That actually the majority of Recruiters are wonderful, studious, professionals? AS for the "free" service. It's clearly not out of the goodness of your heart is it! Makes me laugh when they say "we've been approached by a client" maybe in a small percentage. The vast majority of times you watch the websites and bombard people with CVs and phonecalls. Something that a genuine client could do themselves!
As for lazy, unreliable candidates. I suspect they are in the minority. Who you probably don't keep on file. But think about it, why would you apply for a job if you didn't perhaps want it? If you want a job, why would you not go to the interview?
As for lazy, unreliable candidates. I suspect they are in the minority. Who you probably don't keep on file. But think about it, why would you apply for a job if you didn't perhaps want it? If you want a job, why would you not go to the interview?
Rich_W said:
Oh shush! Are you suggesting that EVERYONE is wrong? That actually the majority of Recruiters are wonderful, studious, professionals? AS for the "free" service. It's clearly not out of the goodness of your heart is it! Makes me laugh when they say "we've been approached by a client" maybe in a small percentage. The vast majority of times you watch the websites and bombard people with CVs and phonecalls. Something that a genuine client could do themselves!
As for lazy, unreliable candidates. I suspect they are in the minority. Who you probably don't keep on file. But think about it, why would you apply for a job if you didn't perhaps want it? If you want a job, why would you not go to the interview?
So much irony! As for lazy, unreliable candidates. I suspect they are in the minority. Who you probably don't keep on file. But think about it, why would you apply for a job if you didn't perhaps want it? If you want a job, why would you not go to the interview?
Original Poster said:
So much irony!
That is the worst response EVER on PH. 
It doesn't address any of my points. It just tries to style it out by being oh so cool and sarcastic. Let me try again. Of the 12+ Agencies and 50ish (apparent) vacancies I've applied for in the last 4 weeks. 3 RC's have got me interviews. Only 1 RC has suggested advice on how to improve my chances (re: sorted my CV a bit for me) The rest have acheived nothing.
Rich_W said:
That is the worst response EVER on PH. It doesn't address any of my points. It just tries to style it out by being oh so cool and sarcastic.
Let me try again. Of the 12+ Agencies and 50ish (apparent) vacancies I've applied for in the last 4 weeks. 3 RC's have got me interviews. Only 1 RC has suggested advice on how to improve my chances (re: sorted my CV a bit for me) The rest have acheived nothing.
Recruiters aren't there to get you interviews, they're there to fill jobs. If you're the right person, in the right place, at the right time, you'll get an interview through a recruiter, but their purpose is not to provide you with such. It doesn't address any of my points. It just tries to style it out by being oh so cool and sarcastic. Let me try again. Of the 12+ Agencies and 50ish (apparent) vacancies I've applied for in the last 4 weeks. 3 RC's have got me interviews. Only 1 RC has suggested advice on how to improve my chances (re: sorted my CV a bit for me) The rest have acheived nothing.
Only a small percentage of people I come into contact with are actually placeable - those cherrypicked from the top 10% of the talent pool, and who are also a match for the goals and culture of the client company and team. Companies don't pay five figure fees for the same people they can find by running an ad on the internet. The reality is that, unless you're truly exceptional within your field, you're going to be "perfect match" for relatively few vacancies or companies.
I'm not sure why you would consider the number of interviews you get to be a measure of the quality of a recruiter.
VeeFour said:
That's not quite true, is it?
They're salespeople chasing commission.
Is the bloke from a utility company who calls you up also offering a free service?
I recently approached a particularly talented individual, two years out of university and doing well at her job, and through our conversation she came to realise that there were really no opportunities for progression where she was, and little benefit to be had by sticking around.They're salespeople chasing commission.
Is the bloke from a utility company who calls you up also offering a free service?
I subsequently placed her in a far more ambitious company, with a 60% payrise, and infinitely better career prospects.
If that's not a free service, well, then I don't know what is. You can't have much more of a postitive impact on someone's life and future than that.
w.r.t. the post above:
in february i was working in a contract role. i then got talking to an agent who ended up landing me a permie role at a more senior level and double the money. the whole thing was as painless as it could possibly be.
w.r.t. the OP:
the reason for the comments is you're hardly being revelatory. just as decent honest mechanics and dodgy rip-off cowboys operate in the same market, the same goes for recruitment agencies. there are headhunters and niche/specialist recruiters, then there are the glorified job centres staffed by ex mobile phone sales staff.
if there are as many roles out there as there appears, then focus on 2-3 agents who are delivering the goods and pay lip service to the rest.
in february i was working in a contract role. i then got talking to an agent who ended up landing me a permie role at a more senior level and double the money. the whole thing was as painless as it could possibly be.
w.r.t. the OP:
the reason for the comments is you're hardly being revelatory. just as decent honest mechanics and dodgy rip-off cowboys operate in the same market, the same goes for recruitment agencies. there are headhunters and niche/specialist recruiters, then there are the glorified job centres staffed by ex mobile phone sales staff.
if there are as many roles out there as there appears, then focus on 2-3 agents who are delivering the goods and pay lip service to the rest.
repiV said:
I recently approached a particularly talented individual, two years out of university and doing well at her job, and through our conversation she came to realise that there were really no opportunities for progression where she was, and little benefit to be had by sticking around.
I subsequently placed her in a far more ambitious company, with a 60% payrise, and infinitely better career prospects.
If that's not a free service, well, then I don't know what is. You can't have much more of a postitive impact on someone's life and future than that.
So you didn't receive payment of any kind from the company you introduced her to, who subsequently took her on?I subsequently placed her in a far more ambitious company, with a 60% payrise, and infinitely better career prospects.
If that's not a free service, well, then I don't know what is. You can't have much more of a postitive impact on someone's life and future than that.
Rich_W said:
Oh shush! Are you suggesting that EVERYONE is wrong? That actually the majority of Recruiters are wonderful, studious, professionals? AS for the "free" service. It's clearly not out of the goodness of your heart is it! Makes me laugh when they say "we've been approached by a client" maybe in a small percentage. The vast majority of times you watch the websites and bombard people with CVs and phonecalls. Something that a genuine client could do themselves!
The 'everyone' you refer to are all candidates, not employers. Employers who don't like agencies don't use them, those of us who do wouldn't use them if they weren't providing a service we want.Rich_W said:
As for lazy, unreliable candidates. I suspect they are in the minority. Who you probably don't keep on file. But think about it, why would you apply for a job if you didn't perhaps want it? If you want a job, why would you not go to the interview?
You couldn't be more wrong. If you advertise a job you get all sorts of people applying so the first thing a decent agency does is sort out the dross for us, and believe me there can be a lot of dross, for some jobs probably only about one in ten candidates are worth interviewing.Why would you apply for a job if you didn't want it? God knows, but they do. Why would you not go to the interview? Again, God knows but it happens a lot.
GeraldSmith said:
You couldn't be more wrong. If you advertise a job you get all sorts of people applying so the first thing a decent agency does is sort out the dross for us, and believe me there can be a lot of dross, for some jobs probably only about one in ten candidates are worth interviewing.
Why would you apply for a job if you didn't want it? God knows, but they do. Why would you not go to the interview? Again, God knows but it happens a lot.
In a lot of cases, agencies are responsible for the dross being on their books in the first place. Or they're guilty of putting forward completely unsuitable candidates.Why would you apply for a job if you didn't want it? God knows, but they do. Why would you not go to the interview? Again, God knows but it happens a lot.
As for the 2nd point.... if you're on an agency's books, they'll put you forward for jobs before speaking to you!
Don't even get me started on approaches about jobs that don't even exist - or the hard sell they put on potential candidates to attend interviews for jobs they don't want. Or lying about salaries to get you on the hook.
I pulled out of an interview less than 12 hours before I was due to go, after finding out that the agent had done nothing but lie to me in about half a dozen phone calls about the role - I stumbled upon an advert for what would have been my line manager's job - which was being advertised by the company directly on a lower salary than the one they'd offered for the more junior role.
Sometimes I don't know what they think they're going to gain from this - so I generally file recruitment agents under the same heading as estate agents and car sales people.
VeeFour said:
In a lot of cases, agencies are responsible for the dross being on their books in the first place. Or they're guilty of putting forward completely unsuitable candidates.
As for the 2nd point.... if you're on an agency's books, they'll put you forward for jobs before speaking to you!
Don't even get me started on approaches about jobs that don't even exist - or the hard sell they put on potential candidates to attend interviews for jobs they don't want. Or lying about salaries to get you on the hook.
I pulled out of an interview less than 12 hours before I was due to go, after finding out that the agent had done nothing but lie to me in about half a dozen phone calls about the role - I stumbled upon an advert for what would have been my line manager's job - which was being advertised by the company directly on a lower salary than the one they'd offered for the more junior role.
Sometimes I don't know what they think they're going to gain from this - so I generally file recruitment agents under the same heading as estate agents and car sales people.
Those practices are all retarded. There's absolutely no point in arranging interviews that are never going to result in placements - for anyone. Those people will never be successful in the long-term.As for the 2nd point.... if you're on an agency's books, they'll put you forward for jobs before speaking to you!
Don't even get me started on approaches about jobs that don't even exist - or the hard sell they put on potential candidates to attend interviews for jobs they don't want. Or lying about salaries to get you on the hook.
I pulled out of an interview less than 12 hours before I was due to go, after finding out that the agent had done nothing but lie to me in about half a dozen phone calls about the role - I stumbled upon an advert for what would have been my line manager's job - which was being advertised by the company directly on a lower salary than the one they'd offered for the more junior role.
Sometimes I don't know what they think they're going to gain from this - so I generally file recruitment agents under the same heading as estate agents and car sales people.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to here, is that yes, in the UK particularly, the average quality of the recruitment industry is pretty diabolical. But, recruitment done WELL is a great deal more complicated and challenging than anyone realises. There are about two dozen distinct steps to putting every placement together - screw up at any one of them and you risk losing the whole placement. It takes years to learn and a lifetime to master.
The difference is that the "recruiters" you've been dealing with - which to be fair is a bit of a misnomer because if you're just handling incoming applications and pulling CVs off monster.com, you ain't really recruiting anyone - don't really understand how the business works, don't perform most of those steps or really do anything at all beyond the point of sending CVs to companies, and just rely on numbers numbers numbers numbers numbers, and if they do enough "stuff", they'll make some money by the law of averages.
Good recruiters leave nothing to chance.
GeraldSmith said:
Like in every area of life, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Good ones do a lot to put candidates and employers together, I don't know too much about the bad ones, I don't use them.
Correct, and for me it is a 1 in 10 chance a recruiter will be good. I am still waiting to hear back a confirmation of an interview time from one...lets see that was in early January...Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff