Camerons speech on Justice reform
Camerons speech on Justice reform
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gerradiuk

Original Poster:

1,669 posts

225 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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The initial message was deleted from this topic on 22 September 2013 at 21:08

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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Sorry, but I hold Cameron in the same contempt as Brown - no difference between them, politically. No backbone whatsoever - all you will hear is words, with little to no action to back them up.

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

187 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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chris watton said:
Sorry, but I hold Cameron in the same contempt as Brown - no difference between them, politically. No backbone whatsoever - all you will hear is words, with little to no action to back them up.
Brown had a huge majority, Cameron is shackled by a coalition.

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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Caulkhead said:
chris watton said:
Sorry, but I hold Cameron in the same contempt as Brown - no difference between them, politically. No backbone whatsoever - all you will hear is words, with little to no action to back them up.
Brown had a huge majority, Cameron is shackled by a coalition.
I doubt Cameron would have been so different if he did have a majority, TBH - especially as he openly claims to be 'heir to Blair'

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

187 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
quotequote all
chris watton said:
Caulkhead said:
chris watton said:
Sorry, but I hold Cameron in the same contempt as Brown - no difference between them, politically. No backbone whatsoever - all you will hear is words, with little to no action to back them up.
Brown had a huge majority, Cameron is shackled by a coalition.
I doubt Cameron would have been so different if he did have a majority, TBH - especially as he openly claims to be 'heir to Blair'
Hopefully you will find out in the next parliament.

Mr_annie_vxr

9,270 posts

241 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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If by prison reform you mean he has cut the budget and wants there to be 3000 less prison spaces to pay for.

More offenders on bail.

More diversions away from prison.

Then I don't think it's very effective.

Burglars can't burgle from behind 6 feet of concrete.

The 50% cut was one of his ideas that he's backing away from.

There will be less prison space. Less court space. Exactly what impact do you think that will have on reducing criminal activity?

Elroy Blue

8,845 posts

222 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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^^^^^ This.

Prison 'reform' means cuts, which means fewer criminals in prison.

Hooli

32,278 posts

230 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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Elroy Blue said:
^^^^^ This.

Prison 'reform' means cuts, which means fewer criminals in prison.
Why?

Why can't they make prisons prisons again? bare cells, with a bucket in the corner, no mod cons etc. You'd slash costs & massively increase the deterant factor.
And yes, I've seen the inside of a few prisons & it doesn't look a harsh environment apart from the crims. The whole place should be a punishment, not just the fact they aren't free to be out claiming benefits & committing crime.

Mr_annie_vxr

9,270 posts

241 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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They won't though.

Hunan rights. There for the protection of all of us abused for sold protection of those that choose to break the ruled and disregard the Human rights of the rest of society.

So as things stand he's cutting prison space and court space. That means only one thing.

CommanderJameson

22,096 posts

256 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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Hooli said:
Why?

Why can't they make prisons prisons again? bare cells, with a bucket in the corner, no mod cons etc. You'd slash costs & massively increase the deterant factor.
And yes, I've seen the inside of a few prisons & it doesn't look a harsh environment apart from the crims. The whole place should be a punishment, not just the fact they aren't free to be out claiming benefits & committing crime.
Any evidence to support these assertions?

AIUI, prison isn't the deterrent. The likelihood of getting caught is the deterrent.

Worked example: China has the death penalty for all sorts of crimes, yet they execute loads of people every year - for everything from tax evasion to honest-to-goodness chopping-them-up-and-wearing-their-goolies-as-a-hat serial murder. Setting aside miscarriages of justice for a moment, don't you think those convicted criminals thought they had a decent chance of getting away with it?

Mr_annie_vxr

9,270 posts

241 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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Majority of crime and criminals are recidivist in it's nature. Locked behind doors makes recidivism very different.

NoVetec

9,967 posts

203 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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It doesn't help that some people will commit an offence purely to be able to get a stay in a "prison".

It's almost another extension of the welfare state in some ways.

Mr_annie_vxr

9,270 posts

241 months

Tuesday 21st June 2011
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NoVetec said:
It doesn't help that some people will commit an offence purely to be able to get a stay in a "prison".

It's almost another extension of the welfare state in some ways.
The difference is I'm happy to pay for people to stay in prison.

NoVetec

9,967 posts

203 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2011
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Mr_annie_vxr said:
The difference is I'm happy to pay for people to stay in prison.
I agree, sorry I didn't elaborate. I was referring to people who constantly commit certain offences like theft and assault to get a few months with a free bed and television.

Like the lovely chap who had a habit of smearing his own excrement all over his cell, pretending to be unstable to continue his stay.