Non synthetic oils, a good choice?

[haircutmike]

I posted this up on the Opie thread, but received no answer.

Can any of you guys shed any light on the following?


I have just replaced my cam on my RV8 chim with another Real Steel Typhoon camshaft.

On the fitting instructions it states that a non synthetic oil should be used.

The manufacturer recommends Valvoline AZ11951 Racing Oil, what do you think? Is this available and is there an alternative?

Car is used for a lot of track days as well as road use.

[TV8]

Hi Pete, i use that oil in both my V8's. The guy who rebuilt my Stag engine swears by it.

[TV8]

It is more commonly known as VR1. The only comment I would add it that it takes a bit longer for the oil to get warm when cold than the stuff in the car before.

[Chimpafrolic]

Zinc or more accurately Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate is your friend Peter.

Abbreviated to ZDDP it is a well proven anti wear additive and is essential in flat tappet engines.

The problem is over time ZDDP blocks the chemical reaction within catalytic converters, consequently these days this important additive has been deleted from most engine oils.

Penrite Oils & Millers Oils still add zinc to many of their oils though.

Or you could use a less expensive oil with an additive like ZDDP Plus:

http://www.zddplus.com/

Diesel specific oils have ZDDP, but be warned they also have a very very high detergent content so I would be cautious about using it in a petrol engine for too may miles.

At the end of the day the special camshaft & Lifter break-in lubricant you would have used when installing the new cam will be high in zinc, so don't worry too much about it's first dose of oil having ZDDP.

After 1000 miles drop the oil and replace with Millers CSS 20w/50, it's a semi-synthetic with ZDDP and should be perfect for your engine with it's new cam.

[nightflight]

Another vote for Valvoline VR1. I've been using it for years in my Griffith 500. People forget that the RV8 engine is a very old design, and when it was designed, synthetic oils had not been invented.

[blueg33]

I wouldnt get too hung up about whether an oil is fully synthetic or not. Even for the more modern Speed 6 engine, it is a condition of TVRPower's rebuild warranty that you only use semi synthetic oils not fully synthetic ones.

The RV8 is much older design and IME consumes less oil when used with semi synth

[Milky400]

wheres the best place to get millers css from? found it 28 quid for 5 liters, sounds cheap

[haircutmike]

Guys. great response, thank you.

Engine should be running in a couple of hours.

I assembled the cam with the special lub and had changed the oil about 400 miles ago for Millers CFC 10w50, has this the additive?

I will leave this in for the running in period with the additive from the cam supplier, (Real Steel) then change for a recommended oil.

[TV8]

Any reason for the cam change?

[Alexdaredevilz]

TV8 said:

Any reason for the cam change?

Sensitive subject

[Chimpafrolic]

haircutmike said:

Guys. great response, thank you.

Engine should be running in a couple of hours.

I assembled the cam with the special lub and had changed the oil about 400 miles ago for Millers CFC 10w50, has this the additive?

I will leave this in for the running in period with the additive from the cam supplier, (Real Steel) then change for a recommended oil.

Peter if you mean CFS 10w50 then it is part of Millers Motorsport product range.

All Millers oils in their Classic & Motorsport ranges contain the correct amount of Zinc, that's why these oils are such a good choice for the RV8.

Just avoid their Premium range, their Premium range oils are designed for modern cars and like almost all other modern oils the zinc has been deleted to ensure a cat life of over 100,000 miles.

CFS 10w50 is a fully synthetic, I favour a semi-synthetic in the Rv8 but it's just my personal preference (although it's interesting to read above that TVR Power agrees).

This is why I use Millers CSS 20w50 (now rated as a 20w60), but the bottom line is CFS 10w50 does contain the all important zinc and will do an excellent job of protecting your new cam.

Keep using an oil from the Millers Motorsport or Classic range and change it every 3,000 miles and your cam should last a long long time.

Use a modern oil without zinc and it will be worn out in no time.

My cam did a disappointing 30,000 miles before needing replacement, and while it wasn't as bad as some I have seen I expect the wear was down to oils being used that didn't contain zinc.

As we know, the RV8 has a bad reputation for cam wear, at the end of the day its only lubricated by splash so it needs all the help it can get.

I just wonder how much of the RV8's reputation for cam wear has come about because people have been using the more modern oils without zinc?

[haircutmike]

Engine sounded a bit tappety. Cam and followers had negligible wear but standard cam chain was fooked.

Replaced cam and followers for same typhoon cam and high rev lifters and duplex chain and sprockets. Follower clearances were excessive should all be okay now

[Guillotine]

Hi Mike,

We use COR

http://www.millersoils.net/M3_cgi/millers2.cgi?pro...

Very cost effective so we can change it alot. Fresh every meeting.
Most wear comes from fuel/oil contamination (cold starting being the worst) so regular changing is key.
3000ml as someone else said on here or every 2 TDs?

Andy

Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 18th June 19:59

[haircutmike]

Again, very helpful, it's good to know what I am using has the zinc content.

Andy, has your recommended oil, COR the all important zinc additive ?

[Alexdaredevilz]

haircutmike said:

Again, very helpful, it's good to know what I am using has the zinc content.

Andy, has your recommended oil, COR the all important zinc additive ?

Add golden syrup to make your engine sound as silk as mine <3

[Guillotine]

...ofcourse Mike.

Specially developed for RV8s for Track and Race.
John Eales recommends Millers too.

A

Competition Engine Oils Millers Oils full synthetic Motorsport formulations combine 3 synthetic esters with high performance additives (including the optimum amount of ZDDP Zinc antiwear additive) and friction modifiers to provide maximum power output with minimum wear. The high ester content reduces the amount of polymer in the formulation and increases the oil’s resistance to shear and loss of viscosity. Click on product titles below to view information.


See here....
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_r_MOTORSPORT-...

[Chimpafrolic]

haircutmike said:

Again, very helpful, it's good to know what I am using has the zinc content.

Andy, has your recommended oil, COR the all important zinc additive ?

Peter, COR 20w50 is part of Millers Motorsport range so it will definitely have the correct amount of zinc.

It's a synthetic fortified competition engine oil, fantastic quality at an excellent price point.

The CSS 20w60 I use is a a bit heavier and is classed as a semi-synthetic, it completely silenced the slight tappety noise my old worn cam was giving and raised my hot oil pressure significantly.

A semi-synthetic has a greater percentage of the synthetic element blended with the mineral base than the COR 20w50.

At the end of the day they are both pretty much the perfect oils for the RV8, I doubt the extra amount of synthetic in the CSS 20w60 will add much benefit.

Now I have a new cam & followers I may even shift to the COR 20w50 when my current stocks of CSS run out, there are some good savings available in doing this with no real downside considering the use my Chim gets.

So if like me you are changing the oil regularly (& you are not desert racing in Australia) you may as well use the cheaper COR 20w50 & enjoy the saving.

As Guillotine says, change it every 3,000 road miles or after every second track day & you cant go wrong

I buy my Millers Oils from "Fluids in Motorsport" they are the cheapest I have found so far and the delivery service is good.

https://shop.fluidsinmotorsport.co.uk/department/m...

If you call and ask for a case price (4x5 Litre Packs) you will be offered an even better deal.

Enjoy the new cam, Dave.

[Chimpafrolic]

Alexdaredevilz said:

Add golden syrup to make your engine sound as silk as mine <3

Is that the same lubricant you use when doing "The Pirate".

Aghhhhh!!!!!!

[clive f]

I`m a great fan of valvoline oils, you can get them from merlin motorsport at castle combe, and a lot cheaper than a lot of other oils on the market too.

[Alexdaredevilz]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performanc...