Weight Training / Reps / Weight.......help please.
Discussion
Bit of a silly one here,
Go to the gym a couple times a week.
Always reading articles about doing more reps with small weights, than less reps with heavy weights. But what if you can do the higher amount of reps with the heavier weight?
I'll put my neck on the line and say im fairly strong, lets base this on a lat pull down. Can happily pull 3 sets of 12 at 100kg. The last couple on the last set are bit of a struggle but it wouldnt be a workout if they werent.
My aim is to tone the muscle that I have, I dont want to get any bigger. I have been trying 3 sets of 20 at 60kg, but in all honesty I dont even break a sweat. What should I be doing, is the more reps at say 60kg actually doing anything? Do I up the weight to say like 70kg so I feel bit of a strain after the 3 sets of 20, or should I increase the amount of reps in each set?
Cheers.
Go to the gym a couple times a week.
Always reading articles about doing more reps with small weights, than less reps with heavy weights. But what if you can do the higher amount of reps with the heavier weight?
I'll put my neck on the line and say im fairly strong, lets base this on a lat pull down. Can happily pull 3 sets of 12 at 100kg. The last couple on the last set are bit of a struggle but it wouldnt be a workout if they werent.
My aim is to tone the muscle that I have, I dont want to get any bigger. I have been trying 3 sets of 20 at 60kg, but in all honesty I dont even break a sweat. What should I be doing, is the more reps at say 60kg actually doing anything? Do I up the weight to say like 70kg so I feel bit of a strain after the 3 sets of 20, or should I increase the amount of reps in each set?
Cheers.
Most simple advice is adjust the weight and effort levels to your body ..
If you can do 100 for 10 great do that for 3/4 sets
If you complete them all inccrease the weight next week
If you want to go heavy and do 115 for 3 sets of 5 then do that
Lowering the weight should be proportional to what you usually lift
I wouldn't do sets of 20 week in and week out as you wont build the muscle just deplete glycogen stores if anything.. oh unless we are talking about squats
Aim for reps of 8-14 depending on the muscle group you should feel its fatter hard at the eend of the set but you don't want to go to failure every set unless you are taking celltech and even then you're going to burn your cns quite quickly
Hope this makes some sense
If you can do 100 for 10 great do that for 3/4 sets
If you complete them all inccrease the weight next week
If you want to go heavy and do 115 for 3 sets of 5 then do that
Lowering the weight should be proportional to what you usually lift
I wouldn't do sets of 20 week in and week out as you wont build the muscle just deplete glycogen stores if anything.. oh unless we are talking about squats
Aim for reps of 8-14 depending on the muscle group you should feel its fatter hard at the eend of the set but you don't want to go to failure every set unless you are taking celltech and even then you're going to burn your cns quite quickly
Hope this makes some sense
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
gareth.e said:
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
gareth.e said:
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
Ordinary_Chap said:
gareth.e said:
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
Ref the rest breaks, I never wait anymore than 30-60secs anyway, I bloody hate people who sit around for a few mins on each machine!
You could struggle like mad doing 10 reps of 100kg on lat pulls.
Don't use the pads to hold you down. And do them very slow and hold at the bottom for 2 seconds.
Sounds odd and won't look impressive to the person who bounces the barbell off his chest in order to push heavy weights but you will find the usual method of training much easier if you wanted to train like that occasionally for explosive power.
I'm training with an ex power lifting/ armwrestling champion and we try to hold at the end of the exercise for a second or 2 rather than use momentum.
Another example, when training triceps on the cables, lean back and push the bar away from you rather than directly to you waist/legs. Do this slow and much less than 1/2 your usual weight will be enough because you'd have isolated the triceps.
Simply put, the girly machines can be benificial and so can light free weights.
Don't use the pads to hold you down. And do them very slow and hold at the bottom for 2 seconds.
Sounds odd and won't look impressive to the person who bounces the barbell off his chest in order to push heavy weights but you will find the usual method of training much easier if you wanted to train like that occasionally for explosive power.
I'm training with an ex power lifting/ armwrestling champion and we try to hold at the end of the exercise for a second or 2 rather than use momentum.
Another example, when training triceps on the cables, lean back and push the bar away from you rather than directly to you waist/legs. Do this slow and much less than 1/2 your usual weight will be enough because you'd have isolated the triceps.
Simply put, the girly machines can be benificial and so can light free weights.
russy01 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
gareth.e said:
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
Ref the rest breaks, I never wait anymore than 30-60secs anyway, I bloody hate people who sit around for a few mins on each machine!
In terms of ego, I don't really see any raging ego's in my meathead gym, in fact you usually find there is a lot more in the poncy lifestyle gyms.
In terms of strength, expect to be surprised by how much more folk are capable of. I can also easily do 100kg on the lat pull down when I want too, although I definitely don't consider myself strong but thats because my perspective is different from truly seeing strong folk doing free weights.
M400 NBL said:
You could struggle like mad doing 10 reps of 100kg on lat pulls.
Don't use the pads to hold you down. And do them very slow and hold at the bottom for 2 seconds.
Yep, I read about doing something like 10 second cycles (5 up and 5 down) plus squeezing the activated muscle when it's fully contracted.Don't use the pads to hold you down. And do them very slow and hold at the bottom for 2 seconds.
Something else I read that you could try is keeping going with as little rest as possible for 3 minutes. 1 set, 1000s of reps on 75% max weight, rest if necessary but try not to for the 180 seconds.
Also, for the lat pull down why not get a weight belt and do weighted pull ups?
Ordinary_Chap said:
Agreed, plus free weights are a wholly different proposition to machines. Its funny because I used to use the smith machine all of the time and when I started using just the bar in my meathead gym I found it incredibly difficult to do simple things like balance the weight properly on the way up and down, I was all over the place!
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
+1I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
I've never believed the "weight" figure given on machines, its only ever really a guideline. Similarly I've never quite believed the speed figures given on treadmills and gym bikes. My 5k time was around 1 minute faster on an actual (hilly) course than i'd ever done on the treadmills, the reverse on bikes.
It can be good to mix up the routines a little. I've normally gone for a medium intensity weights session, slowly working up to shortly below my 1RM. Last week went for a high intensity "superset" session with a colleague, 1 minute break between each pair of exercises, and no break between the individual pairs. Worked for roughly an hour on shoulders/back/arms. Its taken me 4 days to recover.
Ordinary_Chap said:
russy01 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
gareth.e said:
russy01 said:
Cheers.
Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
No problem and if you get bored or find yourself doing too reps or sets look up things like drop sets and super sets Most of the machines at my local gym top out at 100kg so ill just have to stick at it and increase the reps. (There is a bodybuilder gym full of meatheads, but i dont fancy that!)
Thanks for your advice.
P s. Meat head gyms really are the best place to train
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
Ref the rest breaks, I never wait anymore than 30-60secs anyway, I bloody hate people who sit around for a few mins on each machine!
In terms of ego, I don't really see any raging ego's in my meathead gym, in fact you usually find there is a lot more in the poncy lifestyle gyms.
In terms of strength, expect to be surprised by how much more folk are capable of. I can also easily do 100kg on the lat pull down when I want too, although I definitely don't consider myself strong but thats because my perspective is different from truly seeing strong folk doing free weights.
As far as strength goes with others, I wont be surprised, I went to a sports college and have been going to the gym for over a decade now, so I have seen all sorts. Skinny little runts bench press huge weights, right through to ex-bodybuilders who couldnt even do 10 press-ups.
Im currently 5'11 & 90kg. I try to row a good few times a week (machine at home) plus I have a pull up bar which I use most days, (20 pull ups, 20 chin ups morning and night.)
russy01 said:
As far as strength goes with others, I wont be surprised, I went to a sports college and have been going to the gym for over a decade now, so I have seen all sorts. Skinny little runts bench press huge weights, right through to ex-bodybuilders who couldnt even do 10 press-ups.
Thats definitely similar to what I've seen .... there's one guy down the office gym who looks like he's barely got any muscle on him at all, but what he's got definitely packs a punch out of all proportion to his size.Although by far and away the most entertaining is seeing a guy with a relatively huge upper body turning out to be mildly pathetic with his leg strength, very badly imbalanced.
I would say start to really focus on technique instead of just 'how much you can lift'.
For example with the lat pulldown - slow it down, avoid momentum helping you out, and see if you can still bring it right down to your chest in a controlled manner. Focus on using the lats, giving them a squeeze at the end of the movement, instead of relying on shoulders to do the work.
I had to drop the weight significantly on chest and reverse flys when I took this approach, but boy do you feel it when you do it right.
For example with the lat pulldown - slow it down, avoid momentum helping you out, and see if you can still bring it right down to your chest in a controlled manner. Focus on using the lats, giving them a squeeze at the end of the movement, instead of relying on shoulders to do the work.
I had to drop the weight significantly on chest and reverse flys when I took this approach, but boy do you feel it when you do it right.
RemainAllHoof said:
How does that work then? 
many reasons:- stopped training: everyone loses strength+size when they stop training, however it effects some people more
- normal test levels: some people are naturally weaker
- how they train: low reps, high reps, rest pause, super sets
- diet: is an extremely important factor which effects how you look.. bodybuilding is 90% diet
- what they train for: e.g strength, size, sport etc
- neglect certain bodyparts or have managed to excel in other
Strength is primarily determined by the proficiency of your central nervous system
clonmult said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Agreed, plus free weights are a wholly different proposition to machines. Its funny because I used to use the smith machine all of the time and when I started using just the bar in my meathead gym I found it incredibly difficult to do simple things like balance the weight properly on the way up and down, I was all over the place!
I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
+1I was in a lifestyle gym last week and felt like a hero using machines!
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
I've never believed the "weight" figure given on machines, its only ever really a guideline. Similarly I've never quite believed the speed figures given on treadmills and gym bikes. My 5k time was around 1 minute faster on an actual (hilly) course than i'd ever done on the treadmills, the reverse on bikes.
It can be good to mix up the routines a little. I've normally gone for a medium intensity weights session, slowly working up to shortly below my 1RM. Last week went for a high intensity "superset" session with a colleague, 1 minute break between each pair of exercises, and no break between the individual pairs. Worked for roughly an hour on shoulders/back/arms. Its taken me 4 days to recover.
I personally use at least different 3 gyms - college gym, David Lloyd and my gym. The difference between the numbers that are painted on the weights can't be right. Some cables you seem to be able to stack, but elsewhere it's a real struggle, yet the difference between the supposed weight you're lifting can be 50% or more. I mean, it could be psychological, but not by THAT much...
Only sure way is free weight and balance them on some scales to be sure, yet even here scales vary. DL has me at 73.5Kg, my personal gym has me at 75Kg. Same shoes, same t-shirt, same traccy bottoms even the same pants (I'm that anal!).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 25th May 08:15
Ordinary_Chap said:
Agreed, plus free weights are a wholly different proposition to machines. Its funny because I used to use the smith machine all of the time and when I started using just the bar in my meathead gym I found it incredibly difficult to do simple things like balance the weight properly on the way up and down, I was all over the place!
Two words: Synergists. Fixators.Synergists aid movement of your Agonist muscles (prime movers), Fixators hold you in place. E.g. do a Bench Press and your synergists are Your Delts, Serratus Anterior, Triceps (depending on how wide your grip is) etc. Your Fixators are your Erector Spinae group and Abs group.
Fixed Resistance Machines (FRM) and best used for finishing off a routine. They are very isolative with muscles - unnaturally so. They will miss synergist muscle groups completely. It's these and Fixators that aid balance and form in an exercise.
If you solely worked on FRMs you would probably have serious imbalances all over the place.
FRMs - beginners and routine finishing. Nothing else.
Ordinary_Chap said:
Another thing the OP may want to do is shorten the rest breaks to 30 seconds or less and train in a high intensity way (I do it this way) to make the training far tougher. I can lift far more when I take breaks of 2-3 minutes.
Depends what you want to gain. Short rests (<1 min)will keep your HR up, longer rests (1-5 mins) will give your motor-units a reset and give you full power for your next set.mattikake said:
+2 Totally.
I personally use at least different 3 gyms - college gym, David Lloyd and my gym. The difference between the numbers that are painted on the weights can't be right. Some cables you seem to be able to stack, but elsewhere it's a real struggle, yet the difference between the supposed weight you're lifting can be 50% or more. I mean, it could be psychological, but not by THAT much...
Only sure way is free weight and balance them on some scales to be sure, yet even here scales vary. DL has me at 73.5Kg, my personal gym has me at 75Kg. Same shoes, same t-shirt, same traccy bottoms even the same pants (I'm that anal!).
Are the pulley systems identical though.I personally use at least different 3 gyms - college gym, David Lloyd and my gym. The difference between the numbers that are painted on the weights can't be right. Some cables you seem to be able to stack, but elsewhere it's a real struggle, yet the difference between the supposed weight you're lifting can be 50% or more. I mean, it could be psychological, but not by THAT much...
Only sure way is free weight and balance them on some scales to be sure, yet even here scales vary. DL has me at 73.5Kg, my personal gym has me at 75Kg. Same shoes, same t-shirt, same traccy bottoms even the same pants (I'm that anal!).
Edited by mattikake on Wednesday 25th May 08:15
At my old gym there were 2 cable machines that I used for training abs. With the same weight, one was far more difficult because it had less pulley wheels.
You could put a straight bar on the cable machine and hang plates from them to determine the resistance?
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