RE: Setting the Record Straight
Wednesday 19th May 2004
Setting the Record Straight
Motor Cycle Industry Federation speaks out against misrepresentation of bikers
The Motor Cycle Industry Association has today hit out at anti-biker coverage in the press. In particular they focus on campaigning by the North Yorkshire local pressure group BAND which has highlighted problems on certain Yorkshire rural roads.
Claims about 180 mph motorcycling, distorted casualty figures, danger to other road users from racing bikers and 'blood on the roads' are just some of the distorted coverage featured of late.
Stories and campaigns have been fuelled by an increase in casualties, particularly in rural areas, in recent years. However instead of 28,000 riders being killed or seriously injured (KSI), in 2002 (as has been claimed in various articles), the real KSI number was 7,500, with 609 riders killed. Nearly half of these tragic deaths occurred in urban areas at low speeds - often due to riders coming into collision with cars which had pulled into the path of the rider.
Recent increases in the number of casualties to a great extent reflect the massive increase in motorcycling in recent years. If the number of casualties are compared against the amount of new motorcycling that is going on (the casualty rate), the chances of having a crash are the lowest for 10 years. More recently, the motorcycle casualty rate has fallen by 12% over the Government's 1994-98 baseline casualty figures.
According to the MCI, the true picture of rural speeds is also very different to what the public is being led to believe. A spokesman said, "Claims about rural residents being terrorised by 180mph motorcycling are quite simply wrong. It is basically impossible to obtain such speeds on the kinds of bendy rural roads which have become popular among motorcyclists ."
Craig Carey Clinch, MCI Director of Public Affairs said: "Sensationalism and anti motorcycle campaigning is doing nothing but painting all motorcyclists as hooligans, when we are in reality only facing problems from a comparative few irresponsible idiots who's antics will be ultimately be controlled by police enforcement if education fails .
"We don't need new laws; neither do we need biker demonisation by the media. This type of negativity - or 'Bikeism' -- will only lead to a continuation of the current problems, with the benefits of motorcycling for both leisure and commuting continuing to be under developed.
Discussion
It's important that organisations such as the MCI are standing up to this sort of thing and giving the motorists a voice.
You can't slander a company in the press without giving them a chance to reply but it's becoming increasingly popular to make motorists scapegoats for society's problems, without representing our viewpoints or interests.
Well done.
You can't slander a company in the press without giving them a chance to reply but it's becoming increasingly popular to make motorists scapegoats for society's problems, without representing our viewpoints or interests.
Well done.
Local rag a few weeks ago had a headline "Boulders stop Bikers".
It was about 4x4 vehicles driving on the dunes at Cresswell, being stopped by newly placed boulders!!!!! Nowt to do wi bikers.
Wrote letter of complaint, as did a few others, we got a tiny little apology in the corner of a page.
It was about 4x4 vehicles driving on the dunes at Cresswell, being stopped by newly placed boulders!!!!! Nowt to do wi bikers.
Wrote letter of complaint, as did a few others, we got a tiny little apology in the corner of a page.
In my experience there are 2 types of bikers. Those who commute and those who "joy ride". Unfortunately where I live the joyrider predominates. I face every sunny weekend with dread. I live on a 30 limit that is completely abused. They come down here at 100mph regularly and unfortunately this is no exaggeration
:-((
Its a shame they ruin the reputation of the "serious" bikers.
:-((
Its a shame they ruin the reputation of the "serious" bikers.
What the f
k is the point of being a biker if you can't strike fear and loathing into the hearts of Joe public just by wearing your leathers and glaring from behind your beard and Oakleys? 
It all started to go wrong with "you meet the nicest people on a Honda", and is just compounded by poncey, stockbroker, born again, never-rode-anything-more-powerful-than-a-Honda-125 types.
It makes me want to
Bikers are the scum of the earth and we like it that way.
Remember - old bikers never die - they simply smell that way!
k is the point of being a biker if you can't strike fear and loathing into the hearts of Joe public just by wearing your leathers and glaring from behind your beard and Oakleys? It all started to go wrong with "you meet the nicest people on a Honda", and is just compounded by poncey, stockbroker, born again, never-rode-anything-more-powerful-than-a-Honda-125 types.
It makes me want to
Bikers are the scum of the earth and we like it that way.
Remember - old bikers never die - they simply smell that way!
I am the motorcycle casualty reduction officer for my force and I can only relate to what happens in my force.
In 2001 25 riders killed
In 2002 32 riders killed
In 2004 38 riders killed
Of these 38 on 4 were the result of cars pulling across the path of the rider. The majority were rider error, overtaking and hitting oncoming traffic, losing control through bends and were often the lone vehicle. I would like to see the MCI evidence to the fact that most are being killed by car driver, not in my force and from the conversations that I have with other officers around the country most fatalities are down to rider error.
Most riders are responsible and those that are dying are not always those that are riding too fast. There are those that are vulnerable through lack of skill and those anti social riders that often attract the comments that we all have to live with.
In our force the accident rate has increased above the rate of bike sales
Some of us are trying to do something positive. If you want to see the outline of these accidents then have a look at www.thamesvalley.police.uk/safer-rider and look for the stats page as it outlines the accidents and as you will see most are down to the rider.
All the best
In 2001 25 riders killed
In 2002 32 riders killed
In 2004 38 riders killed
Of these 38 on 4 were the result of cars pulling across the path of the rider. The majority were rider error, overtaking and hitting oncoming traffic, losing control through bends and were often the lone vehicle. I would like to see the MCI evidence to the fact that most are being killed by car driver, not in my force and from the conversations that I have with other officers around the country most fatalities are down to rider error.
Most riders are responsible and those that are dying are not always those that are riding too fast. There are those that are vulnerable through lack of skill and those anti social riders that often attract the comments that we all have to live with.
In our force the accident rate has increased above the rate of bike sales
Some of us are trying to do something positive. If you want to see the outline of these accidents then have a look at www.thamesvalley.police.uk/safer-rider and look for the stats page as it outlines the accidents and as you will see most are down to the rider.
All the best
While I am sure the MCIF genuinely believes that the vast majority of bikers behave responsibility, those that I come across on the weekend roads in North Yorkshire can, quite simply, terrify other road users. I am a seasoned and successful competitor in motor sport and drive some very quick road cars, probably on occasions above the speed limit. I also use these roads at weekends with my young family in a large powerful saloon and the only bikers I come across are those approaching me or passing me at VERY high speeds. Its not difficult to work out what speed that a powerful bike been revved to maximum in a high gear is doing. While 180 mph may be an exaggeration, 130-140 mph certainly is not and when a stream of 6 or more of these bikes passes suddenly without warning at this speed it makes me jump. What does it do to the senior citizen doing 30 mph in his Toyota Starlet?
If these guys - and I know some owners of large bikes who happily admit that high speed riding is their favoured weekend pursuit - fancy themselves so much they should show what they can do on a race track.
If these guys - and I know some owners of large bikes who happily admit that high speed riding is their favoured weekend pursuit - fancy themselves so much they should show what they can do on a race track.
How come yet again, we are being drawn into justifying our existence & choice of transport?
Anyone who can 'classfy' all motorcyclists in to one or two categories needs to widen their perspective.
It would be as anal & biggoted as saying that all car drivers were dull accountants who potter around & go on family picnics whilst admiring the scenery on their travels.
This has all been covered before on a very similar recent thread.
Thank you for posting the MCI info.
A
Anyone who can 'classfy' all motorcyclists in to one or two categories needs to widen their perspective.
It would be as anal & biggoted as saying that all car drivers were dull accountants who potter around & go on family picnics whilst admiring the scenery on their travels.
This has all been covered before on a very similar recent thread.
Thank you for posting the MCI info.
A
Riding motorbikes for about 16 years in the area BAND (Bilsdale Against Noise Disruption (or similar)) originate, I feel I must comment.
Many years ago I used to blat up and down Bilsdale for fun or to see a friend living in York at the time. It was early days for sportsbikes as they are now, but it was pretty quick. They even sort-of handled, stopped and turned. To get the same sort of thrill on a modern machine means travelling at speeds that are completely unsafe for the terrain and visibility. Faced with an invasion of noisy sportsbikes every weekend and sunny evening I can appreciate how pi55ed off they are - I like to sit in my garden and enjoy some peace, don't you?
Travelling fast is one thing, fast and safely another. Someone over in Farndale does not want to hear you giving it the berries on the way into Chop Gate, trust me. For the piddly 1-3bhp extra a race can provides these days to a sportsbike, why must *we* continue to bolt these things on expecting to get performance increases as you may have done twenty years ago? Surely it is better to be a bit more discrete and take the stealth approach? Don't introduce bks about being heard as a safety factor, be honest with yourself and admit that when in a car you will only hear a bike going past and not approaching. Outside a car it may be as hard to tell the direction of approach as it can be for emergency vehicle sirens.
This behaviour has led to increased policing over these roads, so much so that I find other places to go now. Er, .... like the Dales...
Before you shoot me down, I enjoy a thrash as much as the next man (or woman) on here. I also possess a race can because it does such wonders on the Bandit that most bikes would scream for (if they could), but find that the nature of the engine means it is far less piercing than a revvy 600 or even sports-thous. Which is what makes open-piped Harleys more acceptable to the masses.
Just take an objectionable third-party view of your own behaviour next time you are out and consider seriously whether that overtake was necessary just then, could you have given that vehicle some more room, slowed down before passing that cyclist...?
>> Edited by gRsf12 on Wednesday 19th May 15:20
Many years ago I used to blat up and down Bilsdale for fun or to see a friend living in York at the time. It was early days for sportsbikes as they are now, but it was pretty quick. They even sort-of handled, stopped and turned. To get the same sort of thrill on a modern machine means travelling at speeds that are completely unsafe for the terrain and visibility. Faced with an invasion of noisy sportsbikes every weekend and sunny evening I can appreciate how pi55ed off they are - I like to sit in my garden and enjoy some peace, don't you?
Travelling fast is one thing, fast and safely another. Someone over in Farndale does not want to hear you giving it the berries on the way into Chop Gate, trust me. For the piddly 1-3bhp extra a race can provides these days to a sportsbike, why must *we* continue to bolt these things on expecting to get performance increases as you may have done twenty years ago? Surely it is better to be a bit more discrete and take the stealth approach? Don't introduce b
ks about being heard as a safety factor, be honest with yourself and admit that when in a car you will only hear a bike going past and not approaching. Outside a car it may be as hard to tell the direction of approach as it can be for emergency vehicle sirens. This behaviour has led to increased policing over these roads, so much so that I find other places to go now. Er, .... like the Dales...
Before you shoot me down, I enjoy a thrash as much as the next man (or woman) on here. I also possess a race can because it does such wonders on the Bandit that most bikes would scream for (if they could), but find that the nature of the engine means it is far less piercing than a revvy 600 or even sports-thous. Which is what makes open-piped Harleys more acceptable to the masses.
Just take an objectionable third-party view of your own behaviour next time you are out and consider seriously whether that overtake was necessary just then, could you have given that vehicle some more room, slowed down before passing that cyclist...?
>> Edited by gRsf12 on Wednesday 19th May 15:20
No one needs to justify why they ride a bike, I do because I love it. Bikers are not being categorised into 1 or 2 areas I was simply making a general observation of perceptions generally and after 30 years dealing with these collisions I am reasonably qualified to make a comment.
Bikers are coming under the spotlight because of the disproportionate number of fatal and serious injury accidents involving them. Its no longer enough for riders to blame everyone else, because most fatal accidents are due to rider error, what’s needed is a way to reduce the rate and severity and that comes in my opinion through education.
EG we suffered 38 dead and 279 seriously injured in the Thames Valley. This makes up around 25% of the fatals whilst less than 2% of the road traffic. BMW have just launched a 170bhp bike, why? What’s the point, in the wrong hands its lethal to the rider if not to anyone else. If training was provided at the point of purchase then maybe more acceptable but without it?
Unfortunately 3rd party perception is a powerful tool and if the public think riders are doing 180mph then most likely at the very least they were riding very very fast I agree that 140mph is possible and thankfully with a minority on the roads. Most riders are responsible even if they to push it on occasions, unfortunately the “few” that do max it are the ones that get noticed and are also the ones that people refer back to. As a final point most bike owners also own a car yet not that many car owners ride a bike so why do so many bikers slate the car driver when they most likely drive one themselves. A little more courtesy between road users would go a long way.
Bikers are coming under the spotlight because of the disproportionate number of fatal and serious injury accidents involving them. Its no longer enough for riders to blame everyone else, because most fatal accidents are due to rider error, what’s needed is a way to reduce the rate and severity and that comes in my opinion through education.
EG we suffered 38 dead and 279 seriously injured in the Thames Valley. This makes up around 25% of the fatals whilst less than 2% of the road traffic. BMW have just launched a 170bhp bike, why? What’s the point, in the wrong hands its lethal to the rider if not to anyone else. If training was provided at the point of purchase then maybe more acceptable but without it?
Unfortunately 3rd party perception is a powerful tool and if the public think riders are doing 180mph then most likely at the very least they were riding very very fast I agree that 140mph is possible and thankfully with a minority on the roads. Most riders are responsible even if they to push it on occasions, unfortunately the “few” that do max it are the ones that get noticed and are also the ones that people refer back to. As a final point most bike owners also own a car yet not that many car owners ride a bike so why do so many bikers slate the car driver when they most likely drive one themselves. A little more courtesy between road users would go a long way.
Because the losers that ride (or drive) like &^%^$ do NOT hang around chatting nicely on bulletin boards about riding techniques, protective clothing, advanced training etc....
The phrase 'preaching to the converted' springs to mind!
Now - who's gonna help me whip my exhasts off so I can raise havoc in some villages on my race home at over 100mph - ooops wrong board.
The phrase 'preaching to the converted' springs to mind!
Now - who's gonna help me whip my exhasts off so I can raise havoc in some villages on my race home at over 100mph - ooops wrong board.
Having rode all sorts of motorbikes during the past 37 years I have now sold my bike and given up riding. Several reasons, the appalling state of the so called highways and roads, the horror of diesel spills on roundabouts and bends, being 'not seen' by prats in cars and vans making biking life sheer hell. Are any of these issues addressed by the authorities - of course not.
To make biking life even more of a hazzard we now have steel cables instead of armarco ready to slice the limbs from a biker who crashes into them, if the authorities cared about this 'new safety barrier' and the effect of a human body catapulted into them why are they being installed? Easy way out blame it all on biking nutters who speed.
To make biking life even more of a hazzard we now have steel cables instead of armarco ready to slice the limbs from a biker who crashes into them, if the authorities cared about this 'new safety barrier' and the effect of a human body catapulted into them why are they being installed? Easy way out blame it all on biking nutters who speed.
go4it said:
I am the motorcycle casualty reduction officer for my force and I can only relate to what happens in my force.
In 2001 25 riders killed
In 2002 32 riders killed
In 2004 38 riders killed
Of these 38 on 4 were the result of cars pulling across the path of the rider. The majority were rider error, overtaking and hitting oncoming traffic, losing control through bends and were often the lone vehicle. I would like to see the MCI evidence to the fact that most are being killed by car driver, not in my force and from the conversations that I have with other officers around the country most fatalities are down to rider error.
Most riders are responsible and those that are dying are not always those that are riding too fast. There are those that are vulnerable through lack of skill and those anti social riders that often attract the comments that we all have to live with.
In our force the accident rate has increased above the rate of bike sales
Some of us are trying to do something positive. If you want to see the outline of these accidents then have a look at www.thamesvalley.police.uk/safer-rider and look for the stats page as it outlines the accidents and as you will see most are down to the rider.
All the best
TVP has consistently chased an illusionary policy that speed cameras will fix all
road evils when in reality TVP now has virtually the worst record of all, but has that prompted them to try something else or even go back to what was working prior to 1992/3, NO… rather than post this rather terse message get off your backside and show us the figures that prove Bikers are mostly at fault the only thing I have seen dangerous this week is mobile camera van illegally parked by the roadside on the pavement and a unmarked green Omega in Maidenhead with two young plods in doing unnecessary acceleration and tailgating in traffic.
Sgt Roc
If you wish to trade insults then you`ll have to do better than that. I have the proof that most bikers are dying as a result of their own actions, come and see me and I will prove them to you if you can face the truth that is? The samples on the website are most of those in 2003, I kept some off out of respect for the remaining relatives..
Easy to slag something off especially when you are most likely doing nothing yourself other than moan. You can reach me via the TVP website, look forward to hearing from you, by the way I have nothing whatsoever to do with sped cameras or enforcement so rattle someone elses cage? What you see on the website is what i do so whats the problem? You dont know me but generalise, you need to get your facts right first, so the offer is there, come and see me you will be made welcome insults and all?
The % increase for TVP wsa about 9% increse in overall bike accidents against a 2.5% increase in bike sales. however its a difficult figure to guage accuratley
If you wish to trade insults then you`ll have to do better than that. I have the proof that most bikers are dying as a result of their own actions, come and see me and I will prove them to you if you can face the truth that is? The samples on the website are most of those in 2003, I kept some off out of respect for the remaining relatives..
Easy to slag something off especially when you are most likely doing nothing yourself other than moan. You can reach me via the TVP website, look forward to hearing from you, by the way I have nothing whatsoever to do with sped cameras or enforcement so rattle someone elses cage? What you see on the website is what i do so whats the problem? You dont know me but generalise, you need to get your facts right first, so the offer is there, come and see me you will be made welcome insults and all?
The % increase for TVP wsa about 9% increse in overall bike accidents against a 2.5% increase in bike sales. however its a difficult figure to guage accuratley
Barry
Try telling the families of the 38 dead that its meaningless, how is that or is it acceptable for a percentage of bikers to die then? So many per 1000 is okay, cant agree with you I`m afraid.
38 die in train crash and all hell breaks loose, 38 die over a year and no one bats an eye lid. If you would like to tell the next family then please be my guest as its a job I hate doing.should be easy as its meaningless????
Try telling the families of the 38 dead that its meaningless, how is that or is it acceptable for a percentage of bikers to die then? So many per 1000 is okay, cant agree with you I`m afraid.
38 die in train crash and all hell breaks loose, 38 die over a year and no one bats an eye lid. If you would like to tell the next family then please be my guest as its a job I hate doing.should be easy as its meaningless????
For my expressed opinion I am rather hoping that an authority (highways?) may respond to what I consider perfectly sound and reasonble critisisms of highway maintenance. What may be an inconvenience and bump thud in a car caused by a pothole can be lethal to a biker.
I have reported derv spillage to Police/highways and fire service (essex) and waited 24 hours for a team to attend and by then damage may be done. I don't blame these services just the stupid administration and budgets.
I know Motor cycle News ran a campaign aagainst the steel hawser 'safety' barriers and this has yet to achieve the aim.
I have reported derv spillage to Police/highways and fire service (essex) and waited 24 hours for a team to attend and by then damage may be done. I don't blame these services just the stupid administration and budgets.
I know Motor cycle News ran a campaign aagainst the steel hawser 'safety' barriers and this has yet to achieve the aim.
Graham with regard to some of the info
on your website about bikes filtering
through traffic between lanes.Are bikes
subject to the "overtaking stationary vehicles"
offence in the same way cars are? I have often
wondered about this and now seems like a good
time to find out.
Cheers Col.
on your website about bikes filtering
through traffic between lanes.Are bikes
subject to the "overtaking stationary vehicles"
offence in the same way cars are? I have often
wondered about this and now seems like a good
time to find out.
Cheers Col.
R666 TUS
I am happy to explain but to be honest i am obviously not on the same wave length about your question?
Too much red wine this evening?
I didnt realise it was an offence to overtake stationary vehicles? How else do you pass a parked vehicle?
I am happy to take a call on 01280 816524 but not until the weekend, (family funeral)
What were your thoughts on the site and can i do more to provide info for bikers? by the way I am the chap on the Speed Triple, awesome bike....grin factor 10
See ya
All the best
I am happy to explain but to be honest i am obviously not on the same wave length about your question?
Too much red wine this evening?
I didnt realise it was an offence to overtake stationary vehicles? How else do you pass a parked vehicle?
I am happy to take a call on 01280 816524 but not until the weekend, (family funeral)
What were your thoughts on the site and can i do more to provide info for bikers? by the way I am the chap on the Speed Triple, awesome bike....grin factor 10
See ya
All the best
Graham I was nicked for the offence of
overtaking stationary vehicles many years ago.
I had approached a roundabout in the outside
lane of two going straight ahead. As I got to the
other side the exit was one quite wide lane and
there was a tailback of stationary traffic.I
drove alongside slowly indicating to pull in and when
someone made a gap I slotted in and was then stopped
by the police car I had pulled in behind and charged
with the above offence.I fought the charge as I did not
have anywhere else to go on the exit of roundabout but
was done anyway
The site seems good by the way.
Col.
overtaking stationary vehicles many years ago.
I had approached a roundabout in the outside
lane of two going straight ahead. As I got to the
other side the exit was one quite wide lane and
there was a tailback of stationary traffic.I
drove alongside slowly indicating to pull in and when
someone made a gap I slotted in and was then stopped
by the police car I had pulled in behind and charged
with the above offence.I fought the charge as I did not
have anywhere else to go on the exit of roundabout but
was done anyway
The site seems good by the way. Col.
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