petrol prices

[andymadmak]

Just got this e mail from somebody with an idea about how to get petrol prices down. It makes interesting reading. Anyone got any views on it?

E mail reads:
Rumour has it we are going to hit close to 89p a
> litre for petrol by the
> summer!
>
> Want petrol prices to come down? We need to take
> some intelligent, united
> action.
>
> Phillip Hollsworth, in the USA, offered this good
> idea:
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy
> petrol on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around last April or May!
> The oil companies just
> laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
> continue to "hurt" ourselves
> by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an
> inconvenience to us than it
> was a problem for them.
>
> HOWEVER, whoever thought of this idea, has come up
> with a plan that can
> really work. Please read it and join with us!
>
> By now, you're probably thinking petrol priced at
> about 77p a litre is super
> cheap. Me too! It is currently 79p - 83p for
> regular unleaded in some
> towns. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC
> nations have conditioned us
> to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p
> -80p, we need to take
> aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control
> the marketplace.... NOT
> sellers.
> With the price of petrol going up more each day, we
> consumers need to take
> action. The only way we are going to see the price
> of petrol come down is if
> we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their
> Petrol! There IS a way
> we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
>
> How?
>
> Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop
> buying petrol. But we CAN
> have an impact on petrol prices if we all act
> together to force a price war.
> Here's the idea:
>
> For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol
> from the two biggest
> oil companies (which are now one) ESSO and BP. If
> they are not selling any
> petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their
> prices. If they reduce their
> prices, the other companies will have to follow
> suit. But, to have an
> impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso
> and BP petrol buyers.
>
> It's really quite simple to do!! Now, don't whimp
> out on me at this
> point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it
> is to reach millions of
> people!! This note is being sent to about thirty
> people. If each of you
> send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)......
> and those 300 send it to
> at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ...... and so
> on, by the time the
> message reaches the sixth generation of people, we
> will have reached over
> THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get
> excited and pass this
> on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will
> have been contacted! If
> it goes one level further, you guessed it.......
> THREE HUNDRED MILLION
> PEOPLE!!!
>
> Once again, all you have to do is send this to 10
> people. That's all. (If
> you don't understand how we can reach 300 million
> and all you have to do is
> send this to 10 people.... well, let's face it, you
> just aren't a
> mathematician. But I am... so trust me on this
> one.)
>
> How long would all that take? If each of us sends
> this email out to ten
> more people within one day of receipt, all 300
> MILLION people could
> conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much
> potential, did you! By
> acting together we can make a difference. If this
> makes sense to you,
> please pass this message on.
>
> PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO
> THE 69p A LITRE RANGE
>
> AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK!!
>
> Alternatively - we should all buy bicycles, or at
> least use them more often!
>

Does anyone here think it might work?
Andy 400se

[mcecm]

If we all send it to the same ten people we are fcuk'd. Good idea though except there is only 1 BP and 1 ESSO within 40 miles of my house so I'm kind of screwed as well.

[Bodo]

Not a bad idea, but:
I don't think so!

How many petrol-buyers use email in the UK?
How many of thouse, who read this text will follow it?
How many percent of the fuel prices is tax?

Sorry for german, but I think it explains itself.

Prices for Fuel in the EEC in EUR/1000l
Country Eurosuper Diesel
Belgien 925,00 717,00
Dänemark 1013,59 779,69
Deutschland 948,80 781,50
Finnland 1010,81 788,46
Frankreich 954,70 745,60
Griechenland 667,14 607,11
Großbritannien 1117,09 1204,55
Irland 796,10 736,40
Italien 990,78 838,20
Luxemburg 707,00 620,00
Niederlande 1085,00 779,00
Österreich 807,00 695,00
Portugal 858,00 648,00
Schweden 955,38 803,39
Spanien 759,24 673,40



Graphic for above without taxes! GB is one of the cheapest; so it must be the taxes, not the oil companies?


German fuel price didvided by costs (starting from top): distribution/taxes/product price/green taxes
source: German shell.com

[stc_bennett]

it may well be the taxes but if the taxt stays the same where do all the increases come from???

Petrol Manufacturers - why? because the cost of a barrel of oil has gone up. why cant they brunt the cost of the crude oil price them selves.

I dont know if other people have noticed but when crude prices go up they go up at the pump instantly, when the price of crude comes down it takes them weeks to bring it down at the pump. calculations have it because of this dellay they are making in excess of 2 million a year profit from this!!!

Lets boycot Esso and BP so we can all get optimax from shell

[Jason F]

quote:
it may well be the taxes but if the taxt stays the same where do all the increases come from???

Petrol Manufacturers - why? because the cost of a barrel of oil has gone up. why cant they brunt the cost of the crude oil price them selves.

I seem to think that they only make a marginal profit on Petrol sold in the UK anyway. They supply it the cheapest in Europe Pre-Tax, then when those Namby Pamby lying cheating gits are done, it is the MOST Expensive in europe or so... Hmmm... I say campaign to get the tax down..

As for rises coming thru quickly, drops more slowly, I refer you once more to the Money Grabbers who inhabit our Govt and seem to manage the same feat each Budget..

[Leithen]

quote:
> Phillip Hollsworth, in the USA, offered this good
> idea:
>
> For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol
> from the two biggest
> oil companies (which are now one) ESSO and BP.

Call me a cynic, but I don't suppose this bloke works for Shell by any chance does he??

Full marks for initiative if he does - I've recieved the same email from four different people already - and no, I never buy my petrol form ESSO BP anyway.....

[kevinday]

quote:

I seem to think that they only make a marginal profit on Petrol sold in the UK anyway.

IMHO The only reason the profit on petrol is marginal is because of transfer pricing, the retail division makes small profits to 'prove' to the consumer that they are not being ripped off, whilst the distillation and transport divisions cream in the profits!

Equally true is the fact that UK taxation on fuel is very high and I cannot see any way of changing this. I never buy fuel from Esso/BP or Shell because we do not have any here in Hungary! U/L here is about 56p/litre which is expensive if you look at the average monthly salary here (less than $200 after taxes). Of course to me it is relatively cheap

[mondeoman]

Time for me to boycott Esso - only problem is they tend to be the cheapest around already.... oops!

They do make money on petrol sales - see previous threads for the explanation - and it is the tax that causes us the problem.

It will only be when people realise that we pay far too much in this country for everything because of our absurdly high fuel costs and the abyssmal distribution system that relies on road rather than rail, all due to continued Government incompetence from both sides (there are no beauties in this contest) that concerted and massive pressure will be brought to bear. Then things might change. But don't hold your breath as this country seems to be populated by people who can only get excited about 22 blokes kicking a pigs bladder around a patch of grass, or instant gratification in the form of alcohol or sex (I know - I've indulged in both ). Anything requiring an iota of intelligent thought has no chance of being considered, as the ability to think has been drummed out of them in the inpet "comprehensive" schooling system, everybody dumbed down to the lowest possible level. As an aside - what does comprehensive mean in this context - comprehesibly crap perhaps?? Oh bugger it, I'm going back to work!

Fetch me that nice white jacket with the long sleeves please!

[gtir]

Oh perrlease!

This petrol thing really gets on my t*ts. Every once in a while some pea-brain decides on fighting a one man crusade to force the price of fuel down...it aint gonna happen.

We all choose to drive cars, and we all make pointless journeys-even though we enjoy the trip-and some of us drive thirsty cars, TVR, Porsche and even my Nissan Sunny only does 20mpg.
So there is no real point in even discussing the price of fuel, yes it is too high, yes the government are really evil money grabbing slugs, yes maybe the petrol companies make huge profits-so what, keeps people employed, yes I think electricity is to expensive, yes I hate paying tax on my wages etc etc etc.

Look at that fiasco last year with the truckers, it may have briefly kept the price down but it hasn't made any real impact and eventually we will pay, whatever the price of petrol is. Even the tax on trucks stayed low, for about six months then back up to the new over the top price.

You know my dad had a Rover 2.2sc in the 70's (and I have one now btw) and it did 20 mpg, and you know what he used to say? "Bloody fuel prices, its the government you know and those fat cat fuel companies, what's the world coming" to etc etc

I only by Shell Optimax, and as long as I have a car I will put fuel in the tank whatever the price. It wont be long before we hit £1.00 a litre and we will all still be winging about the price. By all means boycott the pumps, I am sure BP/Shell/etc will be quaking in their boots. All it may do is have a slight impact on the price of fuel, then three months later it will jump up to the price it was going to be anyway. Its the government that push the price up, not the fuel companies.

there rant over, comments welcome.

[JMorgan]

Arn't there only two or three main refinery's, which means BP may be Esso petrol and vice versa in parts of the country? Just asking.

[aovcerb]

Profit on petrol to the oil companies is minimal, lifting/extraction costs in the UK sector of the oil industry range from $8 to $14 per barrel, this covers offshore exploration, construction of field infrastructure, operation and maintenance of the wells. Add into the equation refining costs, transport etc and the profit is certainly minimal, most of it is tax, last count was about 85%, however no doubt petrol is profitable purely on the basis of demand and economy of scale but this is only part of the equation oil also goes into such things as plastics, pharmaceuticals, even soap powder and the list is endless.
Though the oil companies are no saints it is an unfortunate fact of life that the dreaded taxman is behind the high costs, OK the oil companies put 2p here and there on the cost of fuel but they only see a fraction of this.
PS No I don't work for Shell !!!

[steve harrison]

On the ABD mailing list there are a couple of good reasons for not suporting this.

1) the real culprit is the government with their 350%+ tax and they don't give a flying f**k who you buy your petrol from

2) ESSO have been singled out by the green filth for being single-handedly responsible for global warming, the black death, child poverty and every other world ill you can think of and it's far from clear where this originated.

[JohnLow]

quote:
Arn't there only two or three main refinery's, which means BP may be Esso petrol and vice versa in parts of the country? Just asking.

Yes.

For e.g. almost all the petrol in Scotland comes from the BP refinery at Grangemouth.

[Leithen]

Despite the fact that some are always going to complain that the price of everything is too high and that the government (whatever shade of blue) are taking too much in tax ...... I still believe that there is a fairer and better way to levy fuel duty - all that is required are some simple accounting/business principles..... try to follow me here and by all means confirm what I've thought for some time , namely that I'm loosing my marbles.

Every year we have a budget where the Chancellor sets out his "plan" for the economy - much like the business budget meetings that many of us have to endure only on a phenenomaly bigger scale.

At this time he must hit on a figure which amounts to the budgeted tax receipts that he expects from fuel duty and VAT from fuel for the forthcoming year...

This figure fluctuates hugely though due to oil prices... part of the reason for the fuel protests. So at the end of the year theoretically the receipts can be much more or less that budgeted for.

Surely it would be fairer then for the government to adjust fuel duty at source (oil producers) on a monthly basis depending on whether receipts were on target or not and ensure that the exact budgeted figure was met.

During the fuel protests it was clear that recepits were going to be much higher than expected - any business would throw collective hats in the air and slap themselves on the back in a similar circumstance - but correct me if I'm wrong here, our government is not meant to make a profit or loss, simply meet agreed and voted for budget figures. We're meant to keep the rest.....

By doing this the petrol prices would have still risen during the high oil prices, but by much less.

Now the only problem here that I can't quite get my head round is whether such monthly adjustment by the government would actually have an artifical impact on oil prices themselves......

I better do some work

[Bill B]

Andy, see what you are up against, Most of the people in the U.K now have no fight, or just to lazy the dont want to be put out by having to go a extra couple of hundred yards or so but these w@nkers are the first to complain. All i can say is god help us if we ever have another war, (i can hear them saying) we cant have a war i have got a hair appointment or i have got a football match next week etc,etc

[andymadmak]

Blimey, some of us are a bit vexed on this subject aren't we?
I think the idea originated in the USA where petrol taxes are far lower and so individual oil companies can be held to account if they profiteer in some way.
I suspect that, having read the posts here, the oil companies have bugger all to do with the price of petrol when compared to the effects of Government duties.
Nevertheless, would it be naive to think that by victimising one major oil company with a boycott we could nevertheless secure an impact on Govt policy? Sort of democracy by secondary effect?
After all this Govt does seem inclined to radically alter it's policy in response to pressure/cash inducements from big business and Esso might be inclined to apply both to his Royal Tonyness if their profits are ceing contuously hammered.......
Just a thought
Andy 400se