Discussion
Has anybody seen the latest EVO mag?
Comparing a new Clio, Fiesta ST and Corsa VXR 888 against an EVO 2 Integrale.
They are calling the 'grale slow! Now the gist of their argument I can accept, the relentless march of time does improve the technology, but what gets the old urine steaming is that they bring this 888 thing alone with 20-30horsepower more than standard and put it against a standard Clio, ST and EVO 2. Now if that doesnt shift the goalposts somewhat, you then look at the price of the thing...
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Rememner, its still a Corsa right...
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£19k+!!!!!!!!!
Over 19 grand for a Corsa!
Comparing a new Clio, Fiesta ST and Corsa VXR 888 against an EVO 2 Integrale.
They are calling the 'grale slow! Now the gist of their argument I can accept, the relentless march of time does improve the technology, but what gets the old urine steaming is that they bring this 888 thing alone with 20-30horsepower more than standard and put it against a standard Clio, ST and EVO 2. Now if that doesnt shift the goalposts somewhat, you then look at the price of the thing...
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Rememner, its still a Corsa right...
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£19k+!!!!!!!!!
Over 19 grand for a Corsa!
Its all Bxxxxxxs isn't it. You would have thought Evo mag would know better !!!
None of those depreciating chav chariots would have touched my old EVO 1 on any road or track in wet or dry.
I have owned / driven every hot hatch / Jap car you can and none are as special / fast as a well sorted Integrale Evo.
For 19k you could have the ultimate Grale !!!
Oh and guess what - you would get your money back with interest when you sell it.
I don't think if you owned a Corsa people would come and shake your hand in filling stations and what their photo taking with it.
Then again i could be biased towards the old Lancia ( 2nd Best car in the world ).
None of those depreciating chav chariots would have touched my old EVO 1 on any road or track in wet or dry.
I have owned / driven every hot hatch / Jap car you can and none are as special / fast as a well sorted Integrale Evo.
For 19k you could have the ultimate Grale !!!
Oh and guess what - you would get your money back with interest when you sell it.
I don't think if you owned a Corsa people would come and shake your hand in filling stations and what their photo taking with it.
Then again i could be biased towards the old Lancia ( 2nd Best car in the world ).
When pitted on the fifth gear track wasn't the evo 1 (or was it a 16v, can't remember) only a smidge quicker than the ST (possibly slower)..
It's a little depressing that it's beaten though...inevitable but depressing. Twould be annihilated by the Astras, Golfs, Civics then I take it?
Edited to say: Particularly when I remember the article that turned me onto integrales in such a big way was the Autocar (IIRC) real world comparison between the original 8v and a Testarossa that the 'grale won in all honesty.
That a, albeit top end, standard hatch would do the same to a 'grale makes me sad.
There's not even the get out clause that the competition are track based cars and "in the real world" the Lancia would show them who's boss....please someone, say it ain't so Joe
It's a little depressing that it's beaten though...inevitable but depressing. Twould be annihilated by the Astras, Golfs, Civics then I take it?
Edited to say: Particularly when I remember the article that turned me onto integrales in such a big way was the Autocar (IIRC) real world comparison between the original 8v and a Testarossa that the 'grale won in all honesty.
That a, albeit top end, standard hatch would do the same to a 'grale makes me sad.
There's not even the get out clause that the competition are track based cars and "in the real world" the Lancia would show them who's boss....please someone, say it ain't so Joe
Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 5th February 17:56
They would have chosen the tiredest examples in the world.
The new cars they compared the times on the lap to obviously need to be sold through dealers. The M3 and Lancia are out of production classics that don't need to be sold anymore.
I know what you mean about the bodyroll - they probably took the springs out for the test while Tiff and the boys were having back handers from Renault, Ford ect... to drive slow !!!
The new cars they compared the times on the lap to obviously need to be sold through dealers. The M3 and Lancia are out of production classics that don't need to be sold anymore.
I know what you mean about the bodyroll - they probably took the springs out for the test while Tiff and the boys were having back handers from Renault, Ford ect... to drive slow !!!
TCEvo said:
Cheers DJC - you've saved me a fiver, as I was going to buy Evo this week.
At £19k can't believe that I'll ever see one of those corsas on the road though.
It was a quick 5 min scan of the mag in Tesco At £19k can't believe that I'll ever see one of those corsas on the road though.
I was only flicking through and saw this bright yellow boxy looking thing and caught the word Integrale on the page. Thought Id better take a look In fairness, they do love the 'grale and say how much better an ownership proposition it is, but still come on, it wasnt exactly a level playing field! If they are allowing that modified Corsa thing, im sure someone is running a properly set up EVO with a reliable 250 ponies and a funky 21st Century suspension setup, etc. *Then* we'll see whether some tarted up Corsa can stay in touch
Oh and lets make it wet aswell shall we?
Don't worry, it's mainly just the difference of 20 years development. Put modern suspension and engine developments onto a Grale and it kicks all of those pretenders, and also same-powered Scoobies and Mitsis, into the dust.
And on top of it all, the integrale MUCH more exciting to drive than almost any other road car created, which is what it's all about.
And on top of it all, the integrale MUCH more exciting to drive than almost any other road car created, which is what it's all about.
DJC said:
In fairness, they do love the 'grale and say how much better an ownership proposition it is, but still come on, it wasnt exactly a level playing field! If they are allowing that modified Corsa thing
Thing is though - the standard just-out-of-the-showroom Fiesta ST (16,200) and Clio 197 (14,995) were both quicker round the track too - the Clio by almost two seconds.To me, none of this really matters at all - I loved my integrale, and I'd have another if it was practical. But it's a bit disingenuous to pretend that it took a 19-grand tweaked Corsa to beat it.
I find pieces like this quite interesting, though I've yet to get to this one in the mag yet.
I don't really understand why people are so bothered about comparisons like this. I'll probabaly be shot in here for saying this, but the 'grale is now 15 odd years old, even in it's last guise, it's no suprise that cars like the Clio and Corsa are now on a similar level of pace (as well as size!)
I don't really understand why people are so bothered about comparisons like this. I'll probabaly be shot in here for saying this, but the 'grale is now 15 odd years old, even in it's last guise, it's no suprise that cars like the Clio and Corsa are now on a similar level of pace (as well as size!)
You're right it's not that much of a surprise at all really and there'll be no shooting of anyone!
Personally speaking I wasn't being wholly serious about being bothered by it. Technology moves on and the integrale, when it came out, would run rings around 70's supercars so the fact that a new hatchback can do that to old hatchback isn't that surprising.
One thing i will say though is that a billiard board smooth track isn't really the integrales best territory to show it's advantage.
Personally speaking I wasn't being wholly serious about being bothered by it. Technology moves on and the integrale, when it came out, would run rings around 70's supercars so the fact that a new hatchback can do that to old hatchback isn't that surprising.
One thing i will say though is that a billiard board smooth track isn't really the integrales best territory to show it's advantage.
to you guys who own intagrales, reading the article was, to me, a non owner, a stark admission by evo as to just how darn good the 'grale is, even after all these years.
you are right- the cars it was up against were modded examples, but think about it, and you will see that that was their aim. What they are essentially saying is that, even with work done to them, none of the new breed of superhatches can get close to the sheer thrill of driving an integrale.
I for one have to maintain that evo (most of the time) are able to see past the power of some cars and focus on the dynamics of driving. Think integra DC2, M3 evo, clio trophy- all cars with relatively small power outputs but massive character.
I can see how the feature is slightly insulting to you guys with the cars it was up against, but from a neutral persepective, not only did i find the article a great read, i also thought that it conveyed very accurately just how great they all deem the integrale to be.
(and if nothing else, the feature has prob done your residuals a world of good!)
you are right- the cars it was up against were modded examples, but think about it, and you will see that that was their aim. What they are essentially saying is that, even with work done to them, none of the new breed of superhatches can get close to the sheer thrill of driving an integrale.
I for one have to maintain that evo (most of the time) are able to see past the power of some cars and focus on the dynamics of driving. Think integra DC2, M3 evo, clio trophy- all cars with relatively small power outputs but massive character.
I can see how the feature is slightly insulting to you guys with the cars it was up against, but from a neutral persepective, not only did i find the article a great read, i also thought that it conveyed very accurately just how great they all deem the integrale to be.
(and if nothing else, the feature has prob done your residuals a world of good!)
I remember a few years ago when I had the red Evo, coming up behind 2 Subarus, (I was going harder than I realised), as soon as the guy in the first one seen me in his rear view, he indicated to let me past and so did the other one. As I past both the respective owners mouthed "respect". Never got that from any of the other cars I've ever owned.
I'd be furious If I'd just spent £19k on a souped up Corsa only to read that an old hatch was the better car.
I've had a bucket load of cars, presently tooling around in an old TVR V8S and a heavily modded P5B, and nothing has ever come close to my old 16v.
Quite simply the finest car I've ever owned.
Ian
I've had a bucket load of cars, presently tooling around in an old TVR V8S and a heavily modded P5B, and nothing has ever come close to my old 16v.
Quite simply the finest car I've ever owned.
Ian
evo mag really do loose the plot sometimes....
a standard small turbo (evo2) on a track - not exactly its finest hour imo
i owned a 280-300bhp big turbo evo1 (tweeked with tubular manifold and 1.7bar) - on a b road (ideally wet) there is nothing other than a mitsi evo 340 etc would come near it for speed - nothing close for character and feel (the mitsi evo i drove - rally preped on track was rubbish in comparison)
would be interested to put the corsa against a focus tdi on track - bet there would be bugger all difference as well - there is more to driving than relying on sticky rubber and firm suspension on silky smooth tarmac!
the grale will always be one of my all time greatest cars i've owned - if you havent owned one get out there and find a good evo1 - it will cost a fortune to run but keep it for a year - you wont regret it ;-)
a standard small turbo (evo2) on a track - not exactly its finest hour imo
i owned a 280-300bhp big turbo evo1 (tweeked with tubular manifold and 1.7bar) - on a b road (ideally wet) there is nothing other than a mitsi evo 340 etc would come near it for speed - nothing close for character and feel (the mitsi evo i drove - rally preped on track was rubbish in comparison)
would be interested to put the corsa against a focus tdi on track - bet there would be bugger all difference as well - there is more to driving than relying on sticky rubber and firm suspension on silky smooth tarmac!
the grale will always be one of my all time greatest cars i've owned - if you havent owned one get out there and find a good evo1 - it will cost a fortune to run but keep it for a year - you wont regret it ;-)
Erm, not sure if the point has been lost here, but didnt the grale' win whereas the others were quicker (just) but not as nice to drive?
I think the grale' won with 4.5 or 5 stars so not exactly a disgrace.
Also on the road, in real world conditions i think the Lancia would eat them all alive.
And yes, 19k for a Corsa is just a joke.
I think the grale' won with 4.5 or 5 stars so not exactly a disgrace.
Also on the road, in real world conditions i think the Lancia would eat them all alive.
And yes, 19k for a Corsa is just a joke.
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