E430 Gearbox - General V8 430 Reliability
Discussion
As from indicated in a previous post I am considering an E430 Estate. The vehicle in question has completed just over 100k miles. It was mentioned to me that the gearbox on this particular model can fail. Is this correct and regarded as a weakness? I presently have a 1997 E320 Estate. The vehicle has managed 140k miles. No gearbox issues although I appreciate with the E430 more power is going through the gearbox. On a general note is the 430E regarded as a reliable unit? I appreciate that much depends on how the vehicle / engine has been maintained. In short is the 430 V8 regarded as having the capability to achieve 150k plus miles? Your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
Generally hanging out in Mercedes-owner land I've heard no specific areas of concern with the V8. It's pretty unstressed. However I did hear of a problem with front suspension mount points in this model with the diesel or the V8 engines - being heavy engines. There is an issue with the harmonic balancers of V6s of this era and I can't remember but it may affect the V8s too as i think they're a similar modular design. A google search might help.
I think with any automatic car I would pretty much *expect* the gearbox to go at 150k. That's by no means a rule, but automatics just never seem to last as long as manuals in most cars including Mercedes, so I would expect failure to avoid disappointment if and when it happens! Cue plenty of people saying they've got 250k on their original boxes now...!
I think with any automatic car I would pretty much *expect* the gearbox to go at 150k. That's by no means a rule, but automatics just never seem to last as long as manuals in most cars including Mercedes, so I would expect failure to avoid disappointment if and when it happens! Cue plenty of people saying they've got 250k on their original boxes now...!
I really appreciate the advice given. If I proceed with this vehicle my thought now is to have it checked over. Usually, I feel reasonably confident in arriving at my own judgments, but the V8 factor re the suspension stress, and the gearbox element, make me feel that it might be the safer option to have these areas checked out.
At the outset it is important to be realistic: any vehicle with ten years and 100k+ miles under its wheels has the potential to go badly and expensively wrong.
That said, both the m113 V8 and the 722.6 5speed automatic are good and proven Mercedes products. The engine in particular is pretty bullet proof. The only known issue is the harmonic balancer or crankshaft vibration damper. This is a big rubber and metal disc on the end of the crankshaft. It can disintegrate with catastrophic consequences for the timing covers and auxilliaries. Fortunately this seems to be more of a problem on the m112 V6 but it is not unheard of on the V8s. It only affects early engines because Mercedes improved the part. I took the precaution of having the updated part fitted to my car.
The transmission is not bad, either. Again, early models have suffered failure. If it is going to happen, it happens at about 60k miles. If the car has got to 100k, it probably won't fail early. As Pentoman states above, getting the transmission serviced regularly is vital. At first, Merc suggested the transmission was filled for life. Now they recommend an oil and filter change at 40k miles. If you buy the car, this is the first thing I would have done. Also, the oil pan on the transmission was updated. Early models do not have a magnet in the pan. This is a change you should make. the magnet holds onto the metal particles that come out of the transmission as a result of wear and tear.
The main issue on the w210 is rust. Look under the door seals (especially on the upper leading edge of the door) and check the front suspension top mounts. You may find rust on the wings, on the jacking points and around the boot lock, as well as everywhere else.
The best way to mitigate the risk of an expensive failure is to buy a car that has been very well looked after. I would want more than a fully stamped service book showing services every 16,000miles. I would be looking for the bills themselves and intervals of about 8k to 10k miles. On the bills, I'd expect to see a no-expense spared approach to maintenance. So, good quality engine oil and also all additional work done: fuel filter, air filter, cabin filter, coolant, brake fluid and--crucially on this car--spark plugs. Why spark plugs? Because there are 16 of them and an owner who has skimped will be shown up here. In other words, you're looking for more than mere oil changes. Another good way to root out a cheapskate is to look at the tyres: the car should be wearing Michelins or Continentals, Pirelli or Dunlop at a push. Anything else and the owner doesn't care enough.
My own m113 V8 and 722.6 transmission turned 190,000miles on Saturday with no problems so far.
That said, both the m113 V8 and the 722.6 5speed automatic are good and proven Mercedes products. The engine in particular is pretty bullet proof. The only known issue is the harmonic balancer or crankshaft vibration damper. This is a big rubber and metal disc on the end of the crankshaft. It can disintegrate with catastrophic consequences for the timing covers and auxilliaries. Fortunately this seems to be more of a problem on the m112 V6 but it is not unheard of on the V8s. It only affects early engines because Mercedes improved the part. I took the precaution of having the updated part fitted to my car.
The transmission is not bad, either. Again, early models have suffered failure. If it is going to happen, it happens at about 60k miles. If the car has got to 100k, it probably won't fail early. As Pentoman states above, getting the transmission serviced regularly is vital. At first, Merc suggested the transmission was filled for life. Now they recommend an oil and filter change at 40k miles. If you buy the car, this is the first thing I would have done. Also, the oil pan on the transmission was updated. Early models do not have a magnet in the pan. This is a change you should make. the magnet holds onto the metal particles that come out of the transmission as a result of wear and tear.
The main issue on the w210 is rust. Look under the door seals (especially on the upper leading edge of the door) and check the front suspension top mounts. You may find rust on the wings, on the jacking points and around the boot lock, as well as everywhere else.
The best way to mitigate the risk of an expensive failure is to buy a car that has been very well looked after. I would want more than a fully stamped service book showing services every 16,000miles. I would be looking for the bills themselves and intervals of about 8k to 10k miles. On the bills, I'd expect to see a no-expense spared approach to maintenance. So, good quality engine oil and also all additional work done: fuel filter, air filter, cabin filter, coolant, brake fluid and--crucially on this car--spark plugs. Why spark plugs? Because there are 16 of them and an owner who has skimped will be shown up here. In other words, you're looking for more than mere oil changes. Another good way to root out a cheapskate is to look at the tyres: the car should be wearing Michelins or Continentals, Pirelli or Dunlop at a push. Anything else and the owner doesn't care enough.
My own m113 V8 and 722.6 transmission turned 190,000miles on Saturday with no problems so far.
Thanks for this further, very comprehensive, advice. The servicing record is reasonable, but not in the way advised as per the previous post. In relation to the rust the vehicle presents well, and nothing is visible regarding rust. Reference was made in an earlier reply to the potential failure of the front suspension mounts. For fear of asking the obvious how are these best checked? The suggested mechanical updates are obviously critical.
I guess you check the suspension top mounts just by looking at them. The failure I understand is pretty basic. The top mounts or front suspension turrets (i.e where the shock absorber is attached to the body) rust through and then the suspension collapses; the shock absorber then goes through the bonnet!
I wouldn't be too alarmed about the mechanical updates. People get really excited about this sort of stuff on internet forums, especially in the US, but the reality is very few cars suffer any of these horrendous failures. So far as I can tell, the vibration damper failure is unheard of in the UK and very rare on the V8s anyway; and likewise the 722.6 transmission has a good reputation here. I use a mechanic at my local dealer who is very experienced and whom I trust entirely, and when I put my concerns about the transmission to him, he told me they don't give problems and he has never had to rebuild one.
If you're happy with the car, I would put my money into establishing a maintenance baseline (i.e. get all consumables and servcie items done so you can start the maintenace clock afresh), then just keep an eye on the other things. The vibration damper can be checked visually: before it fails, the rubber part starts to come away from the metal part.
I wouldn't be too alarmed about the mechanical updates. People get really excited about this sort of stuff on internet forums, especially in the US, but the reality is very few cars suffer any of these horrendous failures. So far as I can tell, the vibration damper failure is unheard of in the UK and very rare on the V8s anyway; and likewise the 722.6 transmission has a good reputation here. I use a mechanic at my local dealer who is very experienced and whom I trust entirely, and when I put my concerns about the transmission to him, he told me they don't give problems and he has never had to rebuild one.
If you're happy with the car, I would put my money into establishing a maintenance baseline (i.e. get all consumables and servcie items done so you can start the maintenace clock afresh), then just keep an eye on the other things. The vibration damper can be checked visually: before it fails, the rubber part starts to come away from the metal part.
r129sl said:
If you're happy with the car, I would put my money into establishing a maintenance baseline (i.e. get all consumables and servcie items done so you can start the maintenace clock afresh), then just keep an eye on the other things. The vibration damper can be checked visually: before it fails, the rubber part starts to come away from the metal part.
I had this start to go on my M112 V6, there was an obvious chunk of rubber appearing from the middle of the damper, cost me £70 to fix....Hi Chris still thinking on getting the estate, I went to york on saturday to have a look at a 1999 E430 saloon with 60,000 miles on the clock with full mercedes service history 1 owner new it was perfect so I bought it, I can well and truly say these are awsome beasts, for what I paid I feel like am in a car worth at least £50,000 you just waft about effortlessly and then when you put your foot down the v8 just inleashes its rage, mine came with the E55 wheels and like the previous post stated it is running pirelli's all round. Anyway if you dont go for the one your looking at hold out for another you wont regret it. 
Greg
Greg
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