Pre Purchase Advice On A SL320 97/98/99 Please
Discussion
Guys I now have a two car garage and want a convertible to put in it, originally I thought SLK but the SL (sorry dont know the series) of the late 90`s are such great value.
It will be used sparingly and will be battery conditioned and anything else BUT I am a bit of a fuss pot and I want to know what I should look out for pls and relative costs
I believe MB do a cheap service pack for older cars ?
The two cars I have seen that float my boat are both £10k pre haggling - 97 P 87k Met blue and 98 R 64k black both cream leather both with hard tops both at indie dealers one is an RAC dealer so that must be worth something ?
Any input is very welcome - I cant believe Im so excited to be honest
Dave
It will be used sparingly and will be battery conditioned and anything else BUT I am a bit of a fuss pot and I want to know what I should look out for pls and relative costs
I believe MB do a cheap service pack for older cars ?
The two cars I have seen that float my boat are both £10k pre haggling - 97 P 87k Met blue and 98 R 64k black both cream leather both with hard tops both at indie dealers one is an RAC dealer so that must be worth something ?
Any input is very welcome - I cant believe Im so excited to be honest
Dave
There have been a few posts recently about this model, referred to as the R129.
My experience has a long-term owner has been extremely positive. I think these cars are exceptionally good value at the moment: they are very unfashionable yet extraordinarily accomplished.
There are three series. the first ran until 1995 and is identified by its chunky two-tone bumpers with three rectangular slots in each front wing. The second series ran from 1995 to mid-1998. The body is single colour, there are two oval slots in the wings, but the wing mirrors are still square. The last series ran from 06/98 until mid-2001 and is identified by its soft, round wing mirrors and soft, all-red rear lamps.
Post 1998 cars have huge standard specifications and the latest engines (the 3-valve V6s and V8s which were in use until 2006). That is not to say there is anything wrong with pre-1998 cars: indeed, some would say their engines are better engineered and certainly I feel a straight 6 is better and more pure than a V6.
Buy on condition, nothing else. Mileage is nothing to fear so long as the car has been well-maintained. Nothing kills these cars like lack of use. All of the usual considerations apply: go over the body carefully looking for accident damage (the seams inside the boot should give a clue and there are plenty of date-stamped components under the bonnet which might betray a shunt). You should be able to get an original car.
Head gaskets on the M104 straight six fail; so do engine wiring harnesses. Neither is the end of the world in terms of cost. However, a car which has had these parts replaced is preferrable to one where it is waiting to happen.
Check everything works, all the little electric things. Check all interior parts are present and correct: the trim costs a bomb.
Check the roof. Check the roof. And check the roof again. Be sure to inspect the soft top. The canvas does not wear much but the rear windows crack. They can be replaced for about £350 but it is a roof off job. The hydraulic cylinders in the windscreen header rail fail, but it is not an expensive replacement job. The roof will make all sorts of loud clacks as it engages and disengages.
Get an original car: no after market wheels and what not. An original car will be worth more, will drive better (these cars are very sensitive to set up) and will have been looked after better.
A good indicator of the previous owner's attitude to maintenance is the brand of tyre: all four should be the same and they should be Dunlop, Michelin or Continental. No other brands were homologated by the factory for the R129.
Ideally the service history will be more than just a stamped-up book but will also include invoices and all other records so you can tell precisely what work has been done and when.
Mine has been totally reliable for 150,000 miles now but I spend between £2,000 and £4,000 each year on maintenance, preventative maintenance and tyres, but then I do at least 20k a year in it.
And there is no significant difference in running costs between the 280, the 320 and the 500: they all to 20 to 25mpg and they all cost £1,000 a year to insure. The 600 is a bit more all round.
There are loads of cars out there: take your time and get a feel for what a good one drives like. They aren't selling fast so you're unlikely to miss one, whatever the dealer says about another buyer waiting and so on. I would be tempted to buy from either a specialist or a private seller: in my experience almost all car dealers are dishonest whereas private sellers are pretty straight.
My experience has a long-term owner has been extremely positive. I think these cars are exceptionally good value at the moment: they are very unfashionable yet extraordinarily accomplished.
There are three series. the first ran until 1995 and is identified by its chunky two-tone bumpers with three rectangular slots in each front wing. The second series ran from 1995 to mid-1998. The body is single colour, there are two oval slots in the wings, but the wing mirrors are still square. The last series ran from 06/98 until mid-2001 and is identified by its soft, round wing mirrors and soft, all-red rear lamps.
Post 1998 cars have huge standard specifications and the latest engines (the 3-valve V6s and V8s which were in use until 2006). That is not to say there is anything wrong with pre-1998 cars: indeed, some would say their engines are better engineered and certainly I feel a straight 6 is better and more pure than a V6.
Buy on condition, nothing else. Mileage is nothing to fear so long as the car has been well-maintained. Nothing kills these cars like lack of use. All of the usual considerations apply: go over the body carefully looking for accident damage (the seams inside the boot should give a clue and there are plenty of date-stamped components under the bonnet which might betray a shunt). You should be able to get an original car.
Head gaskets on the M104 straight six fail; so do engine wiring harnesses. Neither is the end of the world in terms of cost. However, a car which has had these parts replaced is preferrable to one where it is waiting to happen.
Check everything works, all the little electric things. Check all interior parts are present and correct: the trim costs a bomb.
Check the roof. Check the roof. And check the roof again. Be sure to inspect the soft top. The canvas does not wear much but the rear windows crack. They can be replaced for about £350 but it is a roof off job. The hydraulic cylinders in the windscreen header rail fail, but it is not an expensive replacement job. The roof will make all sorts of loud clacks as it engages and disengages.
Get an original car: no after market wheels and what not. An original car will be worth more, will drive better (these cars are very sensitive to set up) and will have been looked after better.
A good indicator of the previous owner's attitude to maintenance is the brand of tyre: all four should be the same and they should be Dunlop, Michelin or Continental. No other brands were homologated by the factory for the R129.
Ideally the service history will be more than just a stamped-up book but will also include invoices and all other records so you can tell precisely what work has been done and when.
Mine has been totally reliable for 150,000 miles now but I spend between £2,000 and £4,000 each year on maintenance, preventative maintenance and tyres, but then I do at least 20k a year in it.
And there is no significant difference in running costs between the 280, the 320 and the 500: they all to 20 to 25mpg and they all cost £1,000 a year to insure. The 600 is a bit more all round.
There are loads of cars out there: take your time and get a feel for what a good one drives like. They aren't selling fast so you're unlikely to miss one, whatever the dealer says about another buyer waiting and so on. I would be tempted to buy from either a specialist or a private seller: in my experience almost all car dealers are dishonest whereas private sellers are pretty straight.
Cheers - been to see 2 and the Black 98 R on 64k looks gen apart from a pioneer stereo and a hideous set of ultrasonic sensors.
Result the roof is panoramic and its £9,999
No dings but some minor paint offences especially where the roof locates near the seats
Will have a drive and a test of every button
Result the roof is panoramic and its £9,999
No dings but some minor paint offences especially where the roof locates near the seats
Will have a drive and a test of every button
What a fabulous post by R129. I cannot add much more.
Another couple of points:
1) R129 mentioned the roof - this is ONE HECK of a complicated piece of machinery. Test it works, and then test it again. It should drop or raise without significant pausing, although it can make a bit of a noise. The reservoir is in the spare wheel well under the boot - make sure it is topped up and that the fluid is nice and clear - a fluid change works wonders. There should be no fluid leaks. If there is a hardtop on, insist it is removed and the roof checked. If the owner is not prepared to remove the roof, walk away. To give you a scare story - I was aware of an SL60 with a dodgy roof, having had several specialists and MB dealers look at it.
2) Parts prices - these can be tear-inducingly expensive, mainly due to the part number prefix of A129 xxx yyyy - this means that the part is UNIQUE for the R129. To give you an example? The wiper motor was past its best on mine last year, so I had it replaced. £140 later it was fine again. A motor for my old E Class was £24, less with discount.
Otherwise, they are a joy. I love mine, and can't wait for my old man to give it back.
Another couple of points:
1) R129 mentioned the roof - this is ONE HECK of a complicated piece of machinery. Test it works, and then test it again. It should drop or raise without significant pausing, although it can make a bit of a noise. The reservoir is in the spare wheel well under the boot - make sure it is topped up and that the fluid is nice and clear - a fluid change works wonders. There should be no fluid leaks. If there is a hardtop on, insist it is removed and the roof checked. If the owner is not prepared to remove the roof, walk away. To give you a scare story - I was aware of an SL60 with a dodgy roof, having had several specialists and MB dealers look at it.
2) Parts prices - these can be tear-inducingly expensive, mainly due to the part number prefix of A129 xxx yyyy - this means that the part is UNIQUE for the R129. To give you an example? The wiper motor was past its best on mine last year, so I had it replaced. £140 later it was fine again. A motor for my old E Class was £24, less with discount.
Otherwise, they are a joy. I love mine, and can't wait for my old man to give it back.
Yes! the car alarm is old-fashioned (but effective) and uses little black boxes mounted on the inside of the A-pillar where it meets the dash; driver's side should have a little sticker on it. Believe it or not, Merc were using these on the cabs well into the 21st century. So I suspect those boxes are original.
Stereo is possibly original fit, too, not until after 1998 did they start to fit branded Merc stereos (actually very good Beckers in disguise), usually an Audio 10 or optionally (at huge cost) the very good Audio 30 or even Audio 30 APS. Certainly, very few pre-1999 cars have a Merc stereo.
When you drive the car you will find it very soft. The ride is comfortable, there is some roll, the brake pedal is not at all snatchy (my wife reckons the brakes are useless: they are not, they are amazing, but they do not have that immediate grab that the latest BMWs and Audis have). The car will pick up its skirts and drive very fast if you want it to, though; but if you don't, it'll cruise beautifully.
Stereo is possibly original fit, too, not until after 1998 did they start to fit branded Merc stereos (actually very good Beckers in disguise), usually an Audio 10 or optionally (at huge cost) the very good Audio 30 or even Audio 30 APS. Certainly, very few pre-1999 cars have a Merc stereo.
When you drive the car you will find it very soft. The ride is comfortable, there is some roll, the brake pedal is not at all snatchy (my wife reckons the brakes are useless: they are not, they are amazing, but they do not have that immediate grab that the latest BMWs and Audis have). The car will pick up its skirts and drive very fast if you want it to, though; but if you don't, it'll cruise beautifully.
Due to circ beyond my control its thursday for all - I`m in a quandry as a really nice met deep red one owned by a MB UK member is on offer 96 P 67k AMG alloys and wind deflector with boot bag its £10,500 which is over dealer price - its the spec i want but I think its pre facelift / 4 speed auto - I will know on thurs.
Other fave is a X reg 59k one owner FMBSH at £12,900 in bright red but boring alloys
if the 96 P is a 5 speeder im tempted - can anyone tell me what else changed on the 96 / 97 update ?
Thanx
Dave
Other fave is a X reg 59k one owner FMBSH at £12,900 in bright red but boring alloys
if the 96 P is a 5 speeder im tempted - can anyone tell me what else changed on the 96 / 97 update ?
Thanx
Dave
The main difference between pre- and post-1996 cars is in the bumpers and side-panelling. Early cars are a bit more chunky and are two tone in colour.
Engines I think remained pretty much the same. Same engines, 2.8 and 3.2 litre M104 straight sixes, 5.0litre M119 V8 and 6.0litre M120 V12. There were detail changes to the fuel injection on the V8 and V12 but nothing to write home about.
The 5-speed auto box may have become standard around then, too; I think it is a different unit to the earlier optional 5-speed auto. The later 5-speeder is a lot more "modern", it learns your driving style and is much more willing to kick down. The lever is even easier to use for manual shifting. This later transmission is a 722.6: it can be identified on the car's data sheet. Make sure you get the fluid and filter changed by someone with the right gear, some people have had problems (although received wisdom is that if it gets past 80k it'll last pretty much forever).
I suspect air con became standard: certainly the HVAC control layout changed.
Electronically a load of gadgets became available but largely were confined to the options list: xenon lights, ESP, all of that stuff.
Engines I think remained pretty much the same. Same engines, 2.8 and 3.2 litre M104 straight sixes, 5.0litre M119 V8 and 6.0litre M120 V12. There were detail changes to the fuel injection on the V8 and V12 but nothing to write home about.
The 5-speed auto box may have become standard around then, too; I think it is a different unit to the earlier optional 5-speed auto. The later 5-speeder is a lot more "modern", it learns your driving style and is much more willing to kick down. The lever is even easier to use for manual shifting. This later transmission is a 722.6: it can be identified on the car's data sheet. Make sure you get the fluid and filter changed by someone with the right gear, some people have had problems (although received wisdom is that if it gets past 80k it'll last pretty much forever).
I suspect air con became standard: certainly the HVAC control layout changed.
Electronically a load of gadgets became available but largely were confined to the options list: xenon lights, ESP, all of that stuff.
Nice colour. That is a facelifted car (i.e. from MY1996 to 1999), so all one colour. It has the softer bumpers with only two oval slots in each wing and it also has a six bar grille (early cars had a seven bar grille). I doubt very much it has been modded, it just costs too much money to change the bumpers, side trims and grille (which alone costs £400 plus VAT). Are the wheels genuine AMG? If so they cost £4,000 new!
r129sl said:
The 5-speed auto box may have become standard around then, too; I think it is a different unit to the earlier optional 5-speed auto. The later 5-speeder is a lot more "modern", it learns your driving style and is much more willing to kick down. The lever is even easier to use for manual shifting. This later transmission is a 722.6: it can be identified on the car's data sheet. Make sure you get the fluid and filter changed by someone with the right gear, some people have had problems (although received wisdom is that if it gets past 80k it'll last pretty much forever).
Must respectfully disagree with you there, sir. My old E Class had the same tranny, and the state of the oil that came out of it at 98K was a sight to behold. It was, in a word, shagged. Fresh oil and a new filter made it drive like it had a new gearbox. Cost was £120 for the work. MB span a lie when they said the fluid in that transmission would last the life of the car - what rubbish. A friend who had a C Class (W202) suffered a 722.6 failure which was partly attributed to not having decent fluid. Given a new tranny is knocking on 2K, money well spent!
I agree entirely with Greg about the transmission.
I don't think the centre brake light came until about 97; certainly some pre-06/98 cars (i.e 2nd series cars) had it, but not the earliest of them. I can't remember when the 5speeder became standard fit. You can tell from the selector: the 5speeder goes PRND4321, the 4speeder goes PRND321 or even possibly PRND32B.
If you speak German there is a lot of information available at www.r129sl-club.de translated here: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%...
It appears the electronic 5-speed box was standard on the 320 from September 1995 with the new electronic transmission (722.6) from June 1996.
I don't think the centre brake light came until about 97; certainly some pre-06/98 cars (i.e 2nd series cars) had it, but not the earliest of them. I can't remember when the 5speeder became standard fit. You can tell from the selector: the 5speeder goes PRND4321, the 4speeder goes PRND321 or even possibly PRND32B.
If you speak German there is a lot of information available at www.r129sl-club.de translated here: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%...
It appears the electronic 5-speed box was standard on the 320 from September 1995 with the new electronic transmission (722.6) from June 1996.
Edited by r129sl on Thursday 3rd July 14:07
It goes PRND4321 so its a fiver - its the car for me, the first one I have sat in where my bum doesnt hit the seat bottom !!!
I have to play hard ball now as im nearer to £9 than £10.5
It drives very nice and the wheels are gen in that they were purchased with the car but I cant verify they are the original ones
I was surprised at how sporty it felt, I was expecting it to feel slooooow but it was quite nice and felt solid
The haggling starts....
I have to play hard ball now as im nearer to £9 than £10.5
It drives very nice and the wheels are gen in that they were purchased with the car but I cant verify they are the original ones
I was surprised at how sporty it felt, I was expecting it to feel slooooow but it was quite nice and felt solid
The haggling starts....
Ive decided it must have a pan roof and gen amg alloys which limits the selection quite a bit.
Are these things available apart from ebay - ie is there a dealer of pan roofs ?
Sods law is I have seen a nice one with roof and a nice one with alloys - I was thinking of offering a dealer a roof swap but the chances of a same colour scenario with a willing dealer are remote I guess.
Still looking.... off to Bradford sat....
Are these things available apart from ebay - ie is there a dealer of pan roofs ?
Sods law is I have seen a nice one with roof and a nice one with alloys - I was thinking of offering a dealer a roof swap but the chances of a same colour scenario with a willing dealer are remote I guess.
Still looking.... off to Bradford sat....
The wheels are available all over the place. I have bought wheels on Ebay before and have only had good experiences. It is also possible to get genuine AMGs from the US at vastly reduced prices, especially now the dollar is so week. Sure, shipping costs £100 or so, but then you can get them for about one third the UK new price.
However, if you buy wheels, remember you'll have to buy tyres. It is generally cheaper to find a car with them fitted already.
Pano tops... I'm sure the dealer will supply a new one: at huge cost. Evn on Ebay they are about 2grand. I can't see a dealer doing a swap and, as you say, colour match is almost impossible: five interior colours and about 15 exterior colours, so getting a match would be some chance.
However, if you buy wheels, remember you'll have to buy tyres. It is generally cheaper to find a car with them fitted already.
Pano tops... I'm sure the dealer will supply a new one: at huge cost. Evn on Ebay they are about 2grand. I can't see a dealer doing a swap and, as you say, colour match is almost impossible: five interior colours and about 15 exterior colours, so getting a match would be some chance.
If anyones interested heres an update on trying to buy my perfect R129 
After much pondering and looking (and nearly buying) I decided I really want late spec (brake light on boot) with Helios and either blue or black paint - not common
Also it must have a MBSH, pan roof and AMG deep dish alloys, lowish miles (under 60k) and have the deflector and case complete plus ideally an Audio 10 CD (not a chrome garish thing so common sadly)
Im lucky in that in this price bracket the price does not influence the purchase unless its stupidly overpriced (like a few are becoming) however £15k is as much as I need to pay
I have also realised this may be so rare I may never find it !!!
I can wait......
Last night I found a 1999 22k Obsidean with Helios, orth seats and pan roof and bog std alloys - another near miss !!!
Not sure why but I checked the dealers other stock and a 99 T CLK Convertible
with NEW AMG DEEP DISH replica wheels is for sale - soooo at 9.01 today I will be attempting to cut a deal where said dealer swaps the alloys and I have 99% of what I am looking for (yes ideally its original 2 piece deep dish`s) this will do untill the proper alloys appear on ebay
I realise I need to check sizes first before I ask the dealer to swap cos I am sure the dealer would not be too bothered about exact offsets and speedo calibration etc
Will update once the checking and haggling has ceased.
After much pondering and looking (and nearly buying) I decided I really want late spec (brake light on boot) with Helios and either blue or black paint - not common
Also it must have a MBSH, pan roof and AMG deep dish alloys, lowish miles (under 60k) and have the deflector and case complete plus ideally an Audio 10 CD (not a chrome garish thing so common sadly)
Im lucky in that in this price bracket the price does not influence the purchase unless its stupidly overpriced (like a few are becoming) however £15k is as much as I need to pay
I have also realised this may be so rare I may never find it !!!
I can wait......
Last night I found a 1999 22k Obsidean with Helios, orth seats and pan roof and bog std alloys - another near miss !!!
Not sure why but I checked the dealers other stock and a 99 T CLK Convertible
with NEW AMG DEEP DISH replica wheels is for sale - soooo at 9.01 today I will be attempting to cut a deal where said dealer swaps the alloys and I have 99% of what I am looking for (yes ideally its original 2 piece deep dish`s) this will do untill the proper alloys appear on ebay
I realise I need to check sizes first before I ask the dealer to swap cos I am sure the dealer would not be too bothered about exact offsets and speedo calibration etc
Will update once the checking and haggling has ceased.
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