1992/3 SL 300-24
Discussion
Hi,
I know really nothing about Merc's (currently driving Saab 9000 and Porsche 944 S2) but have always liked the SL's. I have seena couple of adds in the PH classifieds for the above car (one dealer and one private) in white for £8K and 6.5K.
I can't help thinking what a lot of car for so litte money ? I know white is not everyones best colour but is this a relection of what these cars are worth these days ? Im really tempted as the wife thinks the Porsche is to small and uncomftable and Id love a car to drive down to france in style !
Im a OK home mechanic and resale values dont tend to worry me as I keep cars for years.
I'll assume the general service parts are availible from Europarts etc but are there any other ownership issuies I should be aware off ?
Thanks
I know really nothing about Merc's (currently driving Saab 9000 and Porsche 944 S2) but have always liked the SL's. I have seena couple of adds in the PH classifieds for the above car (one dealer and one private) in white for £8K and 6.5K.
I can't help thinking what a lot of car for so litte money ? I know white is not everyones best colour but is this a relection of what these cars are worth these days ? Im really tempted as the wife thinks the Porsche is to small and uncomftable and Id love a car to drive down to france in style !
Im a OK home mechanic and resale values dont tend to worry me as I keep cars for years.
I'll assume the general service parts are availible from Europarts etc but are there any other ownership issuies I should be aware off ?
Thanks
I would either go for the 300SL 12 valve version (badged simply 300SL) or the later SL320 (pre 96 versions will be in budget and has a 3.2 24 valve straight 6) and steer clear of the 300-24 engine. They sound alot "thrashier", having a higher redline (7,000 rpm) than the other two (6,000rpm for the 300SL, and 6,300rpm for the 320). As result, you have to give the engine more stick to get the most from it. This results in things going wrong earlier. Having said that, lots of people bought cars with this engine, and haven't had any problems. The 300-24 engine was somewhat of an "aftet thought" for Mercedes to keep up with BMW's 24 valve engine. They - pretty much - took their 12 valve 3.0 engine and bolted a 24 valve head onto it, resulting power increasing to 220bhp for the 300SL-24. The 300SL and SL320 have 188bhp and 220bhp, respectively. The later 320 engine was alot smoother and more econimcal the 300-24, but has the same power and performance.
On any of these versions you must check for any oil leaks around the engine block. If present, this will more than likely mean a head gasket change and cylinder head skim (Around £1,000-£1,500).
Also check the gearbox is smooth in its changes. If there is any over-revving between gears, and it's clunky when changing between Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive, steer clear! It means ths gearbox has given up the ghost and will require replacement (£2,000-£3,000).
These cars came with alot of goodies as standard, so make sure all these toys work properly, and they will be expensive to sort out. The soft top should operate smoothly, taking approximately 30secs to open and close IIRC. All SLs came as standard with hard tops, so ensure this is present for a ease of resale.
Also ensure any example has a Full Service History. Have a good Mercedes Specialist lined up to service your car for things you can't tackle. These particular engines are more mechanical than
later Merc engines, making them easier to service yourself.
The earliest 300SLs and 300SL-24s are pushing 14/15 years old now, so get a full under body inspection for rust, and check around the bottom of the doors and the front wings for rust. Obviously if white is what you're after, rust would look even more unslightly. Have given that warning, Mercedes's rust-proofing was very good for the SLs of this era, so if it's well cared for, there shouldn't be any rust.
I think I've pretty much covered most things. If you have any more queries, just ask and I'll try my best to answer them.
There are many other more knowledge people who surf these forums, so I'm they will add to anything I've said, or indeed correct I may have got wrong.
Good luck in your search for a good R129 example
Darren
On any of these versions you must check for any oil leaks around the engine block. If present, this will more than likely mean a head gasket change and cylinder head skim (Around £1,000-£1,500).
Also check the gearbox is smooth in its changes. If there is any over-revving between gears, and it's clunky when changing between Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive, steer clear! It means ths gearbox has given up the ghost and will require replacement (£2,000-£3,000).
These cars came with alot of goodies as standard, so make sure all these toys work properly, and they will be expensive to sort out. The soft top should operate smoothly, taking approximately 30secs to open and close IIRC. All SLs came as standard with hard tops, so ensure this is present for a ease of resale.
Also ensure any example has a Full Service History. Have a good Mercedes Specialist lined up to service your car for things you can't tackle. These particular engines are more mechanical than
later Merc engines, making them easier to service yourself.
The earliest 300SLs and 300SL-24s are pushing 14/15 years old now, so get a full under body inspection for rust, and check around the bottom of the doors and the front wings for rust. Obviously if white is what you're after, rust would look even more unslightly. Have given that warning, Mercedes's rust-proofing was very good for the SLs of this era, so if it's well cared for, there shouldn't be any rust.
I think I've pretty much covered most things. If you have any more queries, just ask and I'll try my best to answer them.
There are many other more knowledge people who surf these forums, so I'm they will add to anything I've said, or indeed correct I may have got wrong.
Good luck in your search for a good R129 example
Darren
Darren,
Thanks for the advice. I always think "beggers can't be chosers" when it comes to buying used cars in that the more popular models (or engine types) will attract a higher price to start with.
As they say deperciation is the biggest cost of running a car so if the 300-24 sells for less than a "more desirable" 320 and I only do say 3000 miles /year then it may be good value to me.
In essence I want no oil leaks, check for rust and a smooth gear change.
I'll do the normal HPI and history checks, checking service receipts and even call the garage to confirm the service history !
I need to get out and see some used examples and go from there. One last question is rear seats, are they standard or extra's ?
Thanks for the advice. I always think "beggers can't be chosers" when it comes to buying used cars in that the more popular models (or engine types) will attract a higher price to start with.
As they say deperciation is the biggest cost of running a car so if the 300-24 sells for less than a "more desirable" 320 and I only do say 3000 miles /year then it may be good value to me.
In essence I want no oil leaks, check for rust and a smooth gear change.
I'll do the normal HPI and history checks, checking service receipts and even call the garage to confirm the service history !
I need to get out and see some used examples and go from there. One last question is rear seats, are they standard or extra's ?
The 300SL, 300SL-24 and SL320 didn't come with all the bells and whistles. For the 300SL, leather, heated seats, memory seats and air con were all options. Of examples I've seen for sale, almost all options were ordered. Having said that, I've seen a few without heat, memory seats.
I don't know what a 2nd hand hard top would go for, but I'm sure it would take some asking around, lots of ebay and breaker's yard searching to track one down in your colour. Even then, there may be a slight colour mis-match. I'm sure you could get one from a dealer, but I dread to think of the cost. These older R129 SLs came with steel hard tops. Only later was the panoramic glass hard top offered as an option.
If you require a hard top, I would be better to source one with a hard top already
Darren
I don't know what a 2nd hand hard top would go for, but I'm sure it would take some asking around, lots of ebay and breaker's yard searching to track one down in your colour. Even then, there may be a slight colour mis-match. I'm sure you could get one from a dealer, but I dread to think of the cost. These older R129 SLs came with steel hard tops. Only later was the panoramic glass hard top offered as an option.
If you require a hard top, I would be better to source one with a hard top already
Darren
Thanks for the info. Now I know I need to check witht he seller before travelling to see a car. Its funny what is standard in cars now was a extra cost option even 10 years ago.
As for the hard top I think I read they all came standard with hard tops ? I'll check the flea bay and then can work a offer on a car with out if needed.
A quick glance thur e-bay and the auto trader is throwing up many adds for these cars even local to me. Perhaps I can grab a winter bargin !!
Thanks
As for the hard top I think I read they all came standard with hard tops ? I'll check the flea bay and then can work a offer on a car with out if needed.
A quick glance thur e-bay and the auto trader is throwing up many adds for these cars even local to me. Perhaps I can grab a winter bargin !!
Thanks
pcn1 said:
As for the hard top I think I read they all came standard with hard tops ? I'll check the flea bay and then can work a offer on a car with out if needed.
Yeah hard tops were standard.I'd be suspicious of a car without one. Why hasn't it got one?
It could be innocent e.g. it was irrepairably damaged by floods whilst being stored or it could show a complete lack of care exhibited towards the car in the past.
Of course it could also mean the cars history is slightly dubious, have you performed an HPI (only £5 on the RAC website if you haven't).
Good luck, but avoid a lemon at all costs because it won't be a 'winter bargain' long term!
PCN,
OK, so I've got a 500SL, so I'm a tad biased!
All of the above, also check out this months Mercedes Enthusiast, which features the very car you're looking for.
My advice would also include checking the roof. The hardtop should life up on the button, allowing you to take it off the car - with an assistant. Then, you should be able to raise and lower the roof at will. It should operate smoothly with no stuttering as it moves up and down. If you can, open the boot and remove the spare wheel under the carpet to take a look at the reservior. The fluid should be up to the level and as clean as a whistle - a fresh lot of fluid will make operation much smoother.
If the roof does not raise or lower, WALK AWAY. Do NOT take any "Oh, its only ___ to fix it" as its not - the roof mech is a black art and worthy of blank cheque levels of cost to fix.
Hope this helps.
OK, so I've got a 500SL, so I'm a tad biased!
All of the above, also check out this months Mercedes Enthusiast, which features the very car you're looking for.
My advice would also include checking the roof. The hardtop should life up on the button, allowing you to take it off the car - with an assistant. Then, you should be able to raise and lower the roof at will. It should operate smoothly with no stuttering as it moves up and down. If you can, open the boot and remove the spare wheel under the carpet to take a look at the reservior. The fluid should be up to the level and as clean as a whistle - a fresh lot of fluid will make operation much smoother.
If the roof does not raise or lower, WALK AWAY. Do NOT take any "Oh, its only ___ to fix it" as its not - the roof mech is a black art and worthy of blank cheque levels of cost to fix.
Hope this helps.
Just been having a quick scout around as my father owns one of these beauties (300SL 24V) and has had no serious problems. Only one I can think of is the ariel wont extend all the way but as the radio still works he doesnt mind.
I would reccommend buying with the hard top and sourcing a winch to mount on the garage roof for help removing it. (That is the job for me twice a year every year as the garage roof probably wouldnt take the weight resulting in the winch remaining on the floor!)
I found a few that at first glance seem to be a good buy.
try these sites:
carandclassic. (nice one but in Edinburgh)
buyyourcar. (East sussex £8k)
exchangeandmart. (92 reg, 48K, £9K, Gt Missenden) (93, 81K, £8.5, Surrey)
reeman-dansie-auctions. (92, 56K, £8-9k)
Sorry bit of a technophobe and dont know how to paste the links but I was bored at work so I would like to thank you for giving me something to pass the time.
I would reccommend buying with the hard top and sourcing a winch to mount on the garage roof for help removing it. (That is the job for me twice a year every year as the garage roof probably wouldnt take the weight resulting in the winch remaining on the floor!)
I found a few that at first glance seem to be a good buy.
try these sites:
carandclassic. (nice one but in Edinburgh)
buyyourcar. (East sussex £8k)
exchangeandmart. (92 reg, 48K, £9K, Gt Missenden) (93, 81K, £8.5, Surrey)
reeman-dansie-auctions. (92, 56K, £8-9k)
Sorry bit of a technophobe and dont know how to paste the links but I was bored at work so I would like to thank you for giving me something to pass the time.
shell320 said:
Just been having a quick scout around as my father owns one of these beauties (300SL 24V) and has had no serious problems. Only one I can think of is the ariel wont extend all the way but as the radio still works he doesnt mind.
Check the top of the mast. If its got an H on it, its a Hirshmann and all it needs is a new mast. Costs around 20 quid. Alternatively, a bit of grease works wonders (well, it did on mine)I had an 300SL in the past.
First off, no roof is (for me) a walk-away issue. There would have to be some very very very good story for that - does it happen to be a white one from a dealer? If so, likely the same car that I saw advertised in Jan 07.
Things to look out for.
The original head gasket on the 12 and 24 valves WILL go - the 12 valve is cheaper to redo (they look at the valve stems too) than the 24
Aircon - as stated above, was an option at the time but equally, the evaporator on them goes (same on the W140 and C140 coupes) - about 22 hours labour to strip the interior to replace and about £2500 - hence you see so many with 'needs a re-gas' (cough bull*(&(*&it...cough)
Dashboard warning lights - will play up when using indicators - about £650 to fix
Adaptive suspension - run away!
Roof pump - about £1000 to fix when they go. Also as stated above, if it does not work, walk away. Ditto, operate it a few time (hard top off..soft top up/down x 3 or 4 times, then hard top on) - if owner/seller has a problem with that, walk away.
Heavy cars, 300SL not quick at all but built like a vault. Regret having to sell mine and the new owner got an absolute bargain with all the work done (roof, headgasket etc).
Lastly, there are some dreamers who have been advertising their cars since Nov last year so I would negotiate hard.
Good luck
First off, no roof is (for me) a walk-away issue. There would have to be some very very very good story for that - does it happen to be a white one from a dealer? If so, likely the same car that I saw advertised in Jan 07.
Things to look out for.
The original head gasket on the 12 and 24 valves WILL go - the 12 valve is cheaper to redo (they look at the valve stems too) than the 24
Aircon - as stated above, was an option at the time but equally, the evaporator on them goes (same on the W140 and C140 coupes) - about 22 hours labour to strip the interior to replace and about £2500 - hence you see so many with 'needs a re-gas' (cough bull*(&(*&it...cough)
Dashboard warning lights - will play up when using indicators - about £650 to fix
Adaptive suspension - run away!
Roof pump - about £1000 to fix when they go. Also as stated above, if it does not work, walk away. Ditto, operate it a few time (hard top off..soft top up/down x 3 or 4 times, then hard top on) - if owner/seller has a problem with that, walk away.
Heavy cars, 300SL not quick at all but built like a vault. Regret having to sell mine and the new owner got an absolute bargain with all the work done (roof, headgasket etc).
Lastly, there are some dreamers who have been advertising their cars since Nov last year so I would negotiate hard.
Good luck
Let us know what each viewing turns out to be like.
I see these SLs about at low prices and it's tempting, additionally I assume they're the sorts of cars that are looked after and owned for a long time. However I might be wrong and these lower priced cars are abused wrecks - I'd like to hear!
I see these SLs about at low prices and it's tempting, additionally I assume they're the sorts of cars that are looked after and owned for a long time. However I might be wrong and these lower priced cars are abused wrecks - I'd like to hear!
Hi
Adaptive suspension is ADS - was an option on the 500SL and standard on the 600SL (I will the SL suffix naming as this the era of the 300SL and 300SL-24 before they were dropped and the naming changed to an SL prefix as in SL280, SL320, SL500, SL600 etc)
Friggin' nightmare to be brutally honest - very fancy in lowering the car at high speed but all in all, not enough is offered for the wallet draining costs that will result when (not if...when!) it breaks.
ASR is the traction control. To be honest, I cannot recall if that came on the 300SL-24 (was certainly not on my 300SL) but not really necessary due to the weight of the car and relative lack of power (mental note: try switching off ASR in the S500 coupe, boot it and see what happens - will report outcome shortly) *grin*
The ASR plays up eventually (touch wood that it stays ok on mine for the time being) but just avoid it.
Just before I bought my S500, I had a look at a 500SL since I could not really decide but for £3000 more than the coupe, I was actually getting less (the R129's till the mid 1990's actually feel like the late 80's cars that they are whereas the W140/C140 series of the same year feel and look a lot newer and expensive...even though cheaper! It's the folding roof all singing all dancing theatre that racks up the cost!)
So, unless you really really want the V8, the inline 6 is a fine option. Yes, you had to put the foot down harder in the 300SL and the 300SL-24 had a fantastic engine note but I never really missed the power of the V8 since you could just relax, roof off, and know that you were in a tank (cf a MX-5!) and that if you flip, the rollover bar will pop up and you will most likely be fine.
What I would say, as I mentioned above, is head gasket head gasket head gasket. If you buy from a trader/private seller, don't listen to any nonsense about it being fine - if it has not been replaced, it will go. Plain and simple.
Also, I would get one with aircon - when the hardtop is on, there is actually very little airflow into the cabin even with the windows down. Try frying in the sun, so put the softtop up, and then you bake in the heat!
If you can get a 300SL-24 that has already had the head gasket done, that would be the first choice followed by a 300SL.
Good luck
Adaptive suspension is ADS - was an option on the 500SL and standard on the 600SL (I will the SL suffix naming as this the era of the 300SL and 300SL-24 before they were dropped and the naming changed to an SL prefix as in SL280, SL320, SL500, SL600 etc)
Friggin' nightmare to be brutally honest - very fancy in lowering the car at high speed but all in all, not enough is offered for the wallet draining costs that will result when (not if...when!) it breaks.
ASR is the traction control. To be honest, I cannot recall if that came on the 300SL-24 (was certainly not on my 300SL) but not really necessary due to the weight of the car and relative lack of power (mental note: try switching off ASR in the S500 coupe, boot it and see what happens - will report outcome shortly) *grin*
The ASR plays up eventually (touch wood that it stays ok on mine for the time being) but just avoid it.
Just before I bought my S500, I had a look at a 500SL since I could not really decide but for £3000 more than the coupe, I was actually getting less (the R129's till the mid 1990's actually feel like the late 80's cars that they are whereas the W140/C140 series of the same year feel and look a lot newer and expensive...even though cheaper! It's the folding roof all singing all dancing theatre that racks up the cost!)
So, unless you really really want the V8, the inline 6 is a fine option. Yes, you had to put the foot down harder in the 300SL and the 300SL-24 had a fantastic engine note but I never really missed the power of the V8 since you could just relax, roof off, and know that you were in a tank (cf a MX-5!) and that if you flip, the rollover bar will pop up and you will most likely be fine.
What I would say, as I mentioned above, is head gasket head gasket head gasket. If you buy from a trader/private seller, don't listen to any nonsense about it being fine - if it has not been replaced, it will go. Plain and simple.
Also, I would get one with aircon - when the hardtop is on, there is actually very little airflow into the cabin even with the windows down. Try frying in the sun, so put the softtop up, and then you bake in the heat!
If you can get a 300SL-24 that has already had the head gasket done, that would be the first choice followed by a 300SL.
Good luck
I tried a '98 S500 with ASR. For some reason the 5.0 just isn't a very torquey feeling engine - in both that car and a '91 SL500 I tried anyway - and the probably of wheelspin at least in the dry seemed very low in both cars. I did get the S500 saloon to do it on slippery greasy road in a straight line in first gear, and ASR was an absolute killer, very heavy handed and almost felt dangerous, but then it is an early system and I did only try it the once so may be wrong.
Still it's probably better than the rather silly ASD system (which is not capable of cutting power) in early E-classes and 190s.
Still it's probably better than the rather silly ASD system (which is not capable of cutting power) in early E-classes and 190s.
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