W123 - an everyday proposition?
Discussion
Hi,
The topic is as per the title really. Is it a viable proposition for me to use a W123 as an everyday car, preferably the 280E?
Does anybody know about servicing frequency, costs etc (I would aim to service it every 6000 miles/6 months)?
Also, I have read reference to the 2.8 not being quite as reliable as the other engines - is this correct? If so why?
I would be doing circa 15 000 mainly motorway miles per year. I've seen a very nice looking 280E with 145 000 miles on the clock which is high compared to some others I've seen but does this seem overly leggy for that kind of use?
Would it be okay to keep a W123 outside?
My gut reaction to all of this is that, with the appropriate level of care, all of this will be fine - afterall this is what they were designed for.
Oh, and in terms of general W123 issues I'm fully aware of the problem with rust.
Thanks in advance,
Matt.
The topic is as per the title really. Is it a viable proposition for me to use a W123 as an everyday car, preferably the 280E?
Does anybody know about servicing frequency, costs etc (I would aim to service it every 6000 miles/6 months)?
Also, I have read reference to the 2.8 not being quite as reliable as the other engines - is this correct? If so why?
I would be doing circa 15 000 mainly motorway miles per year. I've seen a very nice looking 280E with 145 000 miles on the clock which is high compared to some others I've seen but does this seem overly leggy for that kind of use?
Would it be okay to keep a W123 outside?
My gut reaction to all of this is that, with the appropriate level of care, all of this will be fine - afterall this is what they were designed for.
Oh, and in terms of general W123 issues I'm fully aware of the problem with rust.
Thanks in advance,
Matt.
Edited by Wigeon Incognito on Thursday 22 November 11:20
I wouldn't say the 280 is less reliable its just that the 230 engine is easier to maintain - the twin camshaft 280 is more difficult and therefore more expensive to work on.
Mileage isn't really an issue with these, what's more important is how they have been maintained throughout their life to date
At this mileage ensure it has had a new timing chain/tensioner and ensure the steering box isn't worn (they are very rare and recon ones can cost up to £1000 !)
How does it drive ? - If the suspension bushes are worn they can feel very sloppy.
Don't under-estimate how thirsty these 280's can be and with the mileage you are intending you will be replacing parts often purely due to the age of the vehicle.
I would advise you garage it if possible.
Don't discount a good 230 manual - they drive very well, return 25mpg and the overall gearing is higher than the auto's so they cruise very well.
In summary its possible given good, regular, preventative maintenance but don't look upon it as a cost saving exercise - and buy the best you can find in the first place !
As an alternative you could have the W123 as a weekend car and buy an old leggy 190e to do the donkey work !
Mileage isn't really an issue with these, what's more important is how they have been maintained throughout their life to date
At this mileage ensure it has had a new timing chain/tensioner and ensure the steering box isn't worn (they are very rare and recon ones can cost up to £1000 !)
How does it drive ? - If the suspension bushes are worn they can feel very sloppy.
Don't under-estimate how thirsty these 280's can be and with the mileage you are intending you will be replacing parts often purely due to the age of the vehicle.
I would advise you garage it if possible.
Don't discount a good 230 manual - they drive very well, return 25mpg and the overall gearing is higher than the auto's so they cruise very well.
In summary its possible given good, regular, preventative maintenance but don't look upon it as a cost saving exercise - and buy the best you can find in the first place !
As an alternative you could have the W123 as a weekend car and buy an old leggy 190e to do the donkey work !
Edited by Egbert Nobacon on Friday 23 November 08:31
I've got a 1984 w123 280te as my main car and have had no problems at all with it. When I got it last year I spent some money getting a few things done such as new struts for the tailgate, curing a few oil leaks and a new exhaust downpipe. It also needed a new part for the front suspension (can't remember exactly what off the top of my head) for the MOT. I haven't bothered sorting the faulty vacuum operated central locking, collapsed drivers seat or the self-levelling rear suspension. The cost to do this would be well in excess of the cars value and these issues don't really bother me!
It has been 100% reliable so far but I don't do a huge annual mileage, probably around 5-7k a year.
It's parked in the street with no problem. I have to say that mine isn't the smartest example cosmetically (rusty rear arches etc) but that suits me, it doesn't matter if it gets bumped or bashed. The engine has done about 112k and still feels really strong. I get about 22mpg on a run from it but this probably drops down to the mid teens around town. It's still more economical than the Range Rover I used to have.
My parents had a w123 230te for about 10 years and the 230 engine is much more economical and pretty refined for a 4 cylinder. I just like having the six cylinder version, it's got abit more grunt. Also, theirs was a 5 speed manual and I have to say it is the worst manual gearbox I have ever used. The ratios just seemed all wrong, first gear too high and second too low. Mind you, most of our driving was around London and so wouldn't be such a problem for motorway work.
So they are definitely capable of being used everyday. I get mine serviced once a year which is probably about right. I've not heard any horror stories re the 280, it was an engine used in lots of different models by MB and, as far as I am aware, is fairly bullet proof if looked after. The tappets are abit noisy but this is due to the design and all the 280's I've seen are the same.
I think it would cope with the 15k per year, I'd be confident doing it in mine, but the maintenance might be higher - older car more to go wrong etc. The last w123's were produced around 1986 so they're all pretty old cars now, though 145k is not a huge amount for a car that age. The one thing I do find annoying (and it maybe a problem with mine) is that despite the 2.8l engine and the 4 speed auto gearbox, it is not a relaxed motorway cruiser. At 75mph the engine is spinning at 4,000rpm and feels like it is working quite hard. If I was doing the mileage you will be on the motorway it would drive me mad!
But are you sure a w123 would be best suited to your use? Have you thought of looking at a w124? This is what my parents replaced their w123 with and it was better in all areas apart from looks. Built almost as well, quieter, more comfortable etc and you will probably get a better w124 for the same money you're looking to spend on a w123. Really good w123 are not cheap but when you look at the costs to put a bad one right, it's not so expensive after all. A dealer has a nice '86 280te but is asking £7450 for it. I like the w123 but there is no way I would buy one for that, there are much better cars out there for the same price (IMHO).
I like mine but I probably wouldn't buy another one. It's a great load lugger and suits us at the moment with a 4 month old baby - lots of gumpf to cart around and I don't care if he pukes all over the seats! My wife will take it over as her car when we move out of London next year (she adores it) and will drive it until it dies! But I will be looking for something that gives me much more of a thrill to drive.
HTH and sorry for the long post.
It has been 100% reliable so far but I don't do a huge annual mileage, probably around 5-7k a year.
It's parked in the street with no problem. I have to say that mine isn't the smartest example cosmetically (rusty rear arches etc) but that suits me, it doesn't matter if it gets bumped or bashed. The engine has done about 112k and still feels really strong. I get about 22mpg on a run from it but this probably drops down to the mid teens around town. It's still more economical than the Range Rover I used to have.
My parents had a w123 230te for about 10 years and the 230 engine is much more economical and pretty refined for a 4 cylinder. I just like having the six cylinder version, it's got abit more grunt. Also, theirs was a 5 speed manual and I have to say it is the worst manual gearbox I have ever used. The ratios just seemed all wrong, first gear too high and second too low. Mind you, most of our driving was around London and so wouldn't be such a problem for motorway work.
So they are definitely capable of being used everyday. I get mine serviced once a year which is probably about right. I've not heard any horror stories re the 280, it was an engine used in lots of different models by MB and, as far as I am aware, is fairly bullet proof if looked after. The tappets are abit noisy but this is due to the design and all the 280's I've seen are the same.
I think it would cope with the 15k per year, I'd be confident doing it in mine, but the maintenance might be higher - older car more to go wrong etc. The last w123's were produced around 1986 so they're all pretty old cars now, though 145k is not a huge amount for a car that age. The one thing I do find annoying (and it maybe a problem with mine) is that despite the 2.8l engine and the 4 speed auto gearbox, it is not a relaxed motorway cruiser. At 75mph the engine is spinning at 4,000rpm and feels like it is working quite hard. If I was doing the mileage you will be on the motorway it would drive me mad!
But are you sure a w123 would be best suited to your use? Have you thought of looking at a w124? This is what my parents replaced their w123 with and it was better in all areas apart from looks. Built almost as well, quieter, more comfortable etc and you will probably get a better w124 for the same money you're looking to spend on a w123. Really good w123 are not cheap but when you look at the costs to put a bad one right, it's not so expensive after all. A dealer has a nice '86 280te but is asking £7450 for it. I like the w123 but there is no way I would buy one for that, there are much better cars out there for the same price (IMHO).
I like mine but I probably wouldn't buy another one. It's a great load lugger and suits us at the moment with a 4 month old baby - lots of gumpf to cart around and I don't care if he pukes all over the seats! My wife will take it over as her car when we move out of London next year (she adores it) and will drive it until it dies! But I will be looking for something that gives me much more of a thrill to drive.
HTH and sorry for the long post.
Edited by CQ8 on Sunday 25th November 14:55
There are loads of people using W123's, on this forum:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/index.php
It wouldn't suit me with the mileage I do, but otherwise I can't see any problems running one.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/index.php
It wouldn't suit me with the mileage I do, but otherwise I can't see any problems running one.
The W123 series is well built car, but as said above the 230 is the one to go for. Get a good one and they're virtually indestructible.
Having said that, when buying, check for the following weak points:
Worn driveshafts
Cracked Exaust manifold
Sticky rear calipers
Lazy self levelling suspension on the Estate
Rust in the sills and across the floorpan under the rear seat area.
Having said that, when buying, check for the following weak points:
Worn driveshafts
Cracked Exaust manifold
Sticky rear calipers
Lazy self levelling suspension on the Estate
Rust in the sills and across the floorpan under the rear seat area.
Thanks for the advice everyone, it's really helpful.
Parrot of Doom - I'll have a good look through that forum tomorrow, after a quick glance it looks to be full of useful information.
The 145 000 miler I was looking at sold but I've got another 280e lined up to look at this week - circa 50 000 miles, full service history etc.
CQ8 - was that expensive estate you'd seen being sold by Cheshire Classic Benz? If so I'd spottef it too and thought that price was somewhat optimistic!!
Thanks again,
Matt.
Parrot of Doom - I'll have a good look through that forum tomorrow, after a quick glance it looks to be full of useful information.
The 145 000 miler I was looking at sold but I've got another 280e lined up to look at this week - circa 50 000 miles, full service history etc.
CQ8 - was that expensive estate you'd seen being sold by Cheshire Classic Benz? If so I'd spottef it too and thought that price was somewhat optimistic!!
Thanks again,
Matt.
Another update here: the other 280e (the circa 50 000 miles one) was offered to me for £7950!! Okay, great condition and low miles but that price really stings!
Does anybody here have any comments to make about Cheshire Classic Benz?
I had a very pleasant chat with them today about sourcing me a car and they seemed confident they could find me an excellent car within my preferred budget.
Thanks once again,
Matt.
Does anybody here have any comments to make about Cheshire Classic Benz?
I had a very pleasant chat with them today about sourcing me a car and they seemed confident they could find me an excellent car within my preferred budget.
Thanks once again,
Matt.
WI - Yes, I was referring to the one at Cheshire Classic Benz. Not had any dealings with them so can't comment but they do seem to source some really nice examples, though you certainly pay for the priviledge!
But it would probably cost more than £7k to get mine into a similar state to the one they're selling so if you look at it from that perspective it's not too bad.
Classic Benz (www.classic-benz.co.uk) have a w123 230te for just under £15k, it has only done 17k miles but that's a massive amount of cash for one.
Have you thought of joining the owners club? They produce a high quality monthly glossy mag that has a classified section at the back. W123 turn up pretty regularly, usually a couple each month. For example, this month there's a nice w123 1984 200 saloon with only 70k miles, 2 owners & new exhaust for £2300 in Cheshire. There are also regular technical articles on w123's as well.
But it would probably cost more than £7k to get mine into a similar state to the one they're selling so if you look at it from that perspective it's not too bad.
Classic Benz (www.classic-benz.co.uk) have a w123 230te for just under £15k, it has only done 17k miles but that's a massive amount of cash for one.
Have you thought of joining the owners club? They produce a high quality monthly glossy mag that has a classified section at the back. W123 turn up pretty regularly, usually a couple each month. For example, this month there's a nice w123 1984 200 saloon with only 70k miles, 2 owners & new exhaust for £2300 in Cheshire. There are also regular technical articles on w123's as well.
Update: I'm heading down to Cheshire Classic Benz on Saturday to see if we can come to an arrangement re them sourcing me a car.
I had a look at references to BR's 280e by searching past threads and it looks like he's moved it on. Thanks for the heads up though.
CQ8 - Although I'm not a member of the Owner's Club I have been keeping track of their classifieds online, plus it turns out that somebody I know through a friend is a member so they're giving me their magazines at the moment.
Oh, and the Classic Benz place you spotted the £15k estate is where I found the £7950 290e saloon - it certainly took me by surprise when I heard that, especially as I'd planned to view the car this morning!
So, if anybody notices an immaculate 280e up for sale, please let me know and I'll take a look.
Thanks again,
Matt.
I had a look at references to BR's 280e by searching past threads and it looks like he's moved it on. Thanks for the heads up though.
CQ8 - Although I'm not a member of the Owner's Club I have been keeping track of their classifieds online, plus it turns out that somebody I know through a friend is a member so they're giving me their magazines at the moment.
Oh, and the Classic Benz place you spotted the £15k estate is where I found the £7950 290e saloon - it certainly took me by surprise when I heard that, especially as I'd planned to view the car this morning!
So, if anybody notices an immaculate 280e up for sale, please let me know and I'll take a look.
Thanks again,
Matt.
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