Mercedes Build Quality / Reliability
Discussion
Hi there,
It is well known that Mercedes built in the late 80's and early 90's were superbly engineered and will last forever given the correct care and attention. I have also heard that during the 90's Mercedes build quality and reliability went down hill considerably. What was the reason for this? Cost cutting? Increased production numbers?
Have Mercedes done anything in recent years to restore confidence in existing and potential owners that the cars they build are, again, amongst the best in the world?
All the best.
Martin.
It is well known that Mercedes built in the late 80's and early 90's were superbly engineered and will last forever given the correct care and attention. I have also heard that during the 90's Mercedes build quality and reliability went down hill considerably. What was the reason for this? Cost cutting? Increased production numbers?
Have Mercedes done anything in recent years to restore confidence in existing and potential owners that the cars they build are, again, amongst the best in the world?
All the best.
Martin.
Edited by MGYoung on Sunday 4th November 11:15
The main reason for their past quality issues (cited by Daimler) is the marriage with Chrylser, which has thankfully resulted in divorce -
From the International Herald Tribune last week:
Costs of Chrysler sale blamed in Daimler loss
Daimler reported a large loss Thursday, saying that its sale of control of
the U.S. carmaker Chrysler cost it more in the third quarter than profit from all other operations.
The net loss was €1.53 billion, or $2.2 billion, against a profit of €868 million a year
earlier, Daimler said, as the sale of most of the German automaker's stake in Chrysler
cost it €2.6 billion - less than the €3 billion it had forecast for the quarter.
Excluding the one-time charges, the company said it would have posted a profit of 1.1 billion.
Dieter Zetsche, the Daimler chief executive, expects profitability to surge following the
disposal of Chrysler. The longtime combination with the U.S. carmaker wiped out
profits, cut billions of euros from Daimler's market value and contributed to Mercedes
losing top spot in luxury-vehicle sales to Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
"I'm comfortable with the figures because it's a loss that washes away the bad odor of Chrysler,"
said Stephen Pope, chief global market strategist at Cantor Fitzgerald in London.
"Now Mercedes-Benz can shine and the real value of its earnings should shine through."
Pope has a "buy" recommendation on the shares.
Daimler sold 80.1 percent of Chrysler to the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management
nine years after acquiring the company in a deal that quickly soured.
Cerberus paid $7.4 billion for the stake; Daimler paid $36 billion for Chrysler in 1998.
Daimler, which changed its name from DaimlerChrysler last month, said sales rose 6 percent
in the third quarter from a year earlier to €25.6 billion.
Its Mercedes-Benz Cars group, which includes both luxury sedans and the line of very
small Smart cars, posted a pretax profit of €1.3 billion, up 57 percent from a year earlier, as
sales rose by 12 percent to €14 billion.
The company cut 9,000 assembly-line jobs at Mercedes. The unit is planning to increase profit
as a percentage of sales to at least 7 percent this year and 10 percent by 2010 from
4.4 percent in 2006.
"The earnings of Mercedes-Benz cars is the prime focus once again," said Georg Stuerzer
of Unicredit in Munich.
For the first nine months of the year, Daimler earned €2.29 billion, down from €3.8 billion
a year earlier, on largely unchanged sales.
In August, Daimler raised its 2007 forecast for earnings before interest and tax 21 percent
to €8.5 billion, reflecting lower costs from the Chrysler deal and a gain from selling a stake
in European Aeronautic Defense & Space.
My opinion -
In actual car production terms, the W210 E-Class (1995-2002) is generally regarded as the biggest Daimler-Chrysler failure, with
quality and reliability issues aplenty. Degrading wiring looms, premature corrosion and brittle spring perches plagued this model, and
compared to the BMW 5-Series of the same era it's a real embarrassment to the marque.
However, they still had great success with the higher-end cars (SL and S-Class) but critics seem to think that they let the lower-end
cars slide in favour of pushing forward the development of the flagship cars.
Mercedes seem keen to stress that they are investing more in R&D and quality control now and that their image problems are dwindling away.
Despite McLaren-Mercedes being disqualified from the constructor's champs in F1 this year, nobody will have failed to notice how outstanding
their performances were - this is Mercedes' chance to return to the very forefront of motorsport.
The new C-Class DTM has a spectacular roadgoing C63 AMG model to back it up, a car which is receiving some seriously gushing reviews.
Looks like they're getting back on form, and brand new cars are definitely up there in terms of desirability...
From the International Herald Tribune last week:
Costs of Chrysler sale blamed in Daimler loss
Daimler reported a large loss Thursday, saying that its sale of control of
the U.S. carmaker Chrysler cost it more in the third quarter than profit from all other operations.
The net loss was €1.53 billion, or $2.2 billion, against a profit of €868 million a year
earlier, Daimler said, as the sale of most of the German automaker's stake in Chrysler
cost it €2.6 billion - less than the €3 billion it had forecast for the quarter.
Excluding the one-time charges, the company said it would have posted a profit of 1.1 billion.
Dieter Zetsche, the Daimler chief executive, expects profitability to surge following the
disposal of Chrysler. The longtime combination with the U.S. carmaker wiped out
profits, cut billions of euros from Daimler's market value and contributed to Mercedes
losing top spot in luxury-vehicle sales to Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
"I'm comfortable with the figures because it's a loss that washes away the bad odor of Chrysler,"
said Stephen Pope, chief global market strategist at Cantor Fitzgerald in London.
"Now Mercedes-Benz can shine and the real value of its earnings should shine through."
Pope has a "buy" recommendation on the shares.
Daimler sold 80.1 percent of Chrysler to the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management
nine years after acquiring the company in a deal that quickly soured.
Cerberus paid $7.4 billion for the stake; Daimler paid $36 billion for Chrysler in 1998.
Daimler, which changed its name from DaimlerChrysler last month, said sales rose 6 percent
in the third quarter from a year earlier to €25.6 billion.
Its Mercedes-Benz Cars group, which includes both luxury sedans and the line of very
small Smart cars, posted a pretax profit of €1.3 billion, up 57 percent from a year earlier, as
sales rose by 12 percent to €14 billion.
The company cut 9,000 assembly-line jobs at Mercedes. The unit is planning to increase profit
as a percentage of sales to at least 7 percent this year and 10 percent by 2010 from
4.4 percent in 2006.
"The earnings of Mercedes-Benz cars is the prime focus once again," said Georg Stuerzer
of Unicredit in Munich.
For the first nine months of the year, Daimler earned €2.29 billion, down from €3.8 billion
a year earlier, on largely unchanged sales.
In August, Daimler raised its 2007 forecast for earnings before interest and tax 21 percent
to €8.5 billion, reflecting lower costs from the Chrysler deal and a gain from selling a stake
in European Aeronautic Defense & Space.
My opinion -
In actual car production terms, the W210 E-Class (1995-2002) is generally regarded as the biggest Daimler-Chrysler failure, with
quality and reliability issues aplenty. Degrading wiring looms, premature corrosion and brittle spring perches plagued this model, and
compared to the BMW 5-Series of the same era it's a real embarrassment to the marque.
However, they still had great success with the higher-end cars (SL and S-Class) but critics seem to think that they let the lower-end
cars slide in favour of pushing forward the development of the flagship cars.
Mercedes seem keen to stress that they are investing more in R&D and quality control now and that their image problems are dwindling away.
Despite McLaren-Mercedes being disqualified from the constructor's champs in F1 this year, nobody will have failed to notice how outstanding
their performances were - this is Mercedes' chance to return to the very forefront of motorsport.
The new C-Class DTM has a spectacular roadgoing C63 AMG model to back it up, a car which is receiving some seriously gushing reviews.
Looks like they're getting back on form, and brand new cars are definitely up there in terms of desirability...
Edited by 190Evoluzione on Sunday 4th November 13:13
My wife had a 2004 ML cdi, and the build quality was questionable (built in america i think...).
i bought a new E320 cdi sport estate last year for her (7spd auto diesel). I must say i'm very surprised how good it is to drive. In terms of equipment levels and interior quality, its up there with the japs. Overall build quality is excellent. My biggest issue with mercs that we've had in the past has been the poor level of serivce from the franchise. However, I'm glad to say our local dealer in Bedford where we bought the car from has been very good indeed (eg. it needed some oil after about 6mths, so my wife took the car there without an appointment, and the service guy put a litre or two of oil in... and DIDN'T charge anything! How rare's that these days?!!
i bought a new E320 cdi sport estate last year for her (7spd auto diesel). I must say i'm very surprised how good it is to drive. In terms of equipment levels and interior quality, its up there with the japs. Overall build quality is excellent. My biggest issue with mercs that we've had in the past has been the poor level of serivce from the franchise. However, I'm glad to say our local dealer in Bedford where we bought the car from has been very good indeed (eg. it needed some oil after about 6mths, so my wife took the car there without an appointment, and the service guy put a litre or two of oil in... and DIDN'T charge anything! How rare's that these days?!!
Edited by nickb55 on Thursday 8th November 10:35
Edited by nickb55 on Thursday 8th November 10:36
Edited by nickb55 on Thursday 8th November 10:36
nickb55 said:
My wife had a 2004 ML cdi, and the build quality was questionable (built in america i think...).
i bought a new E320 cdi sport estate last year for her (7spd auto diesel). I must say i'm very surprised how good it is to drive. In terms of equipment levels and interior quality, its up there with the japs. Overall build quality is excellent. My biggest issue with mercs that we've had in the past has been the poor level of serivce from the franchise. However, I'm glad to say our local dealer in Bedford where we bought the car from has been very good indeed (eg. it needed some oil after about 6mths, so my wife took the car there without an appointment, and the service guy put a litre or two of oil in... and DIDN'T charge anything! How rare's that these days?!!
My dealer has been superb also!!! What's going on? i bought a new E320 cdi sport estate last year for her (7spd auto diesel). I must say i'm very surprised how good it is to drive. In terms of equipment levels and interior quality, its up there with the japs. Overall build quality is excellent. My biggest issue with mercs that we've had in the past has been the poor level of serivce from the franchise. However, I'm glad to say our local dealer in Bedford where we bought the car from has been very good indeed (eg. it needed some oil after about 6mths, so my wife took the car there without an appointment, and the service guy put a litre or two of oil in... and DIDN'T charge anything! How rare's that these days?!!
s.....in 2000 I bought an ML430, new - I had 10 faults on delivery and the tally grew to 18 within 10 days. Faults included rust on all seats, Airconditioning packed up, electric seats failed, rear view mirror dropped off into my hand, to name but a few. It took 3 months of letter writing, including to the UK MD of Mercedes to get a refund. the cars released between 97 and 2005 have been generally much poorer in quality to those before. I learned how to drive in a W123 230E - an absolutely faultless car. My Dad and I used that until the gearbox went at 350k miles. We had only done oil and filter changes upto that point. That was proper quality.
Parrot of Doom said:
Have to say that apart from the rust on my W210, I'm very happy with everything else. Its superbly well put together.
Many people forget that much of the W210's component list comes from the W124, which always gets praised.
Same here they seem to get slated but mine has been ultra reliable and at least MB will repair the rust unlike many other manufacturersMany people forget that much of the W210's component list comes from the W124, which always gets praised.
People whinge about the build qualiies but its actual the dealer networks that will stop me from buying a new one, in the last 6 years i havent seen them get much better
r129sl said:
I have done 143,000 miles in my 1999 SL500 and it has never missed a beat apart from a puncture seven weeks ago (hardly MB's or the car's fault). The punture occurred at 115mph and my wife in the passenger seat didn't even notice! What an excellent car and still feels brand new.
Yours was near the end of a very long production period, drive an early 90's SL and say the sameGassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff