W211 "Juddering" Problems

[halfpenny43]

Ben et al

I read recently on another forum site about an alleged common problem that affects certain W211 cars manufactured around 2002 / 2003.

Symptoms are under gentle acceleration, a shudder or judder is felt through the car.

My car (2002 "52" W211 2.7 with 114k) has been experiencing these problems and I notice that they are getting slowly worse. The independent I use for my servicing is not aware of a common fault with this model car, but is perhaps a little out of their depth with this problem.

I understand that the problem is linked with the radiator, gearbox and / or torque converter but am not that technical.....

My questions are;
1. Is this a common problem ?

2. What is the fix ?

3. If replacement radiator, torque converter or gearbox I assume that given the age and mileage of my car MB would be unwilling to contribute ?

4. Any other information would be appreciated !

Thanks
Steven

[Egbert Nobacon]

Are you sure it's not caused by the SBC pump in the braking system ?

There have been loads of issues with the SBC pump causing juddering/groaning at low speed on the early W211's and they have been subject to many recalls.

So much so that on the latest facelift (06 on) it has been dropped.

Has your car had all the recall work done ?

Edited by Egbert Nobacon on Tuesday 4th September 20:16

[dvs_dave]

My '03 W211 320 CDI suffered from exactly this. It feels like the gear box is slipping and juddering whilst accelerating gently. It's only very slight but infuriating. It's often accompanied by a groaning noise.

At the time, the car was only 2 1/2 years old and had only done 30k when it started. After numerous trips to the dealership and MB engineer investigations it was decided that the torque converter and gearbox oil cooling system needed to be replaced. It was suspected that water had contaminated the transmission oil.

Anyway, it was all replaced at great expense (approx 2k!) and MB wouldn't offer it under warranty as my car is a RHD import. What difference that makes I don't know but the Wan*ers wouldn't budge. But that's another story.

After all this, much to my annoyance the problem came back after only 50 miles. 2k down the drain!

As a last resort, MB decided to replace some 20 quid valve in the transmission, and hey presto the problem vanished. They at least had the decency to do this FOC.

I'm not sure what the function of this valve is but replacing it seemed to do the trick. Trouble now is that after another 20k, the symptoms are returning.

I'd like to understand more about this alledged common fault and what's been done (if anything) to fix it. I'm 2k out of pocket because of it!

Edited by dvs_dave on Wednesday 5th September 00:04

[Deva Link]

dvs_dave said:

I'm 2k out of pocket because of it!

Drop the dealer a line and ask them to refund you. When they refuse, issue a claim using http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

[Parrot of Doom]

Common fault. Its the 'valeo' problem by the sound of things. Basically the ATF cooling pipes run through the radiator. Theres a leak, the coolant gets into the ATF, and it buggers up the Torque convertor (the gearbox is unaffected).

The fix is a new rad, new TC, and new ATF/filter/gasket. And the bill will be on MB.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t...

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Wednesday 5th September 16:36

[Deva Link]

Parrot of Doom said:

Common fault. Its the 'valeo' problem by the sound of things. Basically the ATF cooling pipes run through the radiator. Theres a leak, the coolant gets into the ATF, and it buggers up the Torque convertor (the gearbox is unaffected).

The fix is a new rad, new TC, and new ATF/filter/gasket. And the bill will be on MB.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t...

Maybe, although in this case the fault returned straight away.

I don't know how Mercedes organise themselves financially but DC-UK is agent in the UK. They will pay on UK cars, but why should they pay on imports? Perhaps a dealer in the supplying country may have been able to get MB to pay.

[Parrot of Doom]

Considering its a design fault, and an extremely expensive one to repair, I'd absolutely insist that MB paid in full. No matter where the car came from. It was still manufactured in the same factory.

[halfpenny43]

Cheers all for the replies. The car is going to my garage next week.

I think it has had recall work done as it was recalled about 3 months ago for some pipes around the brake thingy.

I think the answer from the Parrot of Doom is my problem - I will keep you all posted !

Thanks again
Steven

[halfpenny43]

So the garage phoned me today.

Apparently there is no water in the gearbox.

However the gearbox oil was completely black and there was a distinct smell of "burnt".

The garage suggest that there are two belts in the gearbox and one or both of these are slipping, the only fix is a gearbox rebuild.

Does anyone else have experience of this and what is a gearbox rebuild likely to cost me ??

Thanks
Steven

[halfpenny43]

Finally got the car diagnosed today by an independent auto gearbox specialist.

It would appear that although there was no water in the gearbox oil, the torque converter is on it's last legs.

So new torque converter, gearbox refurb £1,800. One year warranty

Sound fair ??

[Parrot of Doom]

On the Valeo problem, the gearbox is never touched (aside from ATF change and filter/gasket replacement).

Personally I'd get the TC done, and think about the gearbox later. Unless theres bits of metal floating around the ATF, it should be fine.

[halfpenny43]

Thanks PoD

When the guys took some of the gearbox oil out, they explained that it was thick black and smelt burnt. They suggested that this may indicate there may be some debris in the gearbox.

I think that this £1,800 is better than the £3,000 quoted by Merc, so will get it done for peace of mind.

Hopefully sell it when it's done anyway.

Steven

[Parrot of Doom]

http://www.fedauto.co.uk/

Highly recommended by several guys on the MBclub forums.

[dvs_dave]

Got my car seen to by my local MB dealer. After explaining to them what I now knew about the problem (from here...thanks all ) and that it should have been rectified the first time round and FOC (they hadn't changed the radiator and it was leaking ), they quibbled no more and two days later I got the car back with its third new torque converter, but cruically with the updated radiator. Bizzarely, all they charged me for was transmission oil.

The car's been fine ever since.

[Paracetamol]

FYI

Mercedes are now recommendging a gearbox oil change and filter at 3 years on E Class cars.

[GregE240]

Paracetamol said:

FYI

Mercedes are now recommendging a gearbox oil change and filter at 3 years on E Class cars.

Think its most of them now mate, and it seems the ATF they use has changed too...

[Paracetamol]

GregE240 said:

Paracetamol said:

FYI

Mercedes are now recommendging a gearbox oil change and filter at 3 years on E Class cars.

Think its most of them now mate, and it seems the ATF they use has changed too...

Its was not originally part of the service schedule it and when my father got charged for this on his last service I became suspicious but was assured its now been added as a recommended service item