Need a few bits of advice on W129 SL.
Discussion
Hi we have had one of these alread so am not totally green, last one was owned by my father and was a 300 12valve, I am looking at one to replace my 964 as I need to have a car with a tow bar, and sadly no-one makes one for the 964, I have however one sat at the back of the garage for an SL.
Firstly, W129 or R129? What is the difference if any?
The cars I am looking at are SL280/320 and 500, I am keeping away from 300's as I believe (wrongly?) that they are not as reliable. Certainly my dad's was never 100% and suffered from a couple of headgasket failures although it was a very well looked after car.
Bearing in mind that the car I am coming from is a lot of fun to drive, will I get bored quickly with a 280/320? Or for that matter a 500? I realise I will have to adjust to an auto, but that doesn't fill me with dread as I do big mileage so it would be relaxing, but I don't want to plant my foot to either overtake or have fun and be dissapointed and possibly left stranded on the wrong side of a lorry. I took a 320 out today and certainly driving round town it felt lithe enough but on a test drive out of respect to the owner it is hard to get a real feel for the car.
Are there any weak points on the cars? Anything to really check before buying?
What tuning options are available, does anyone produce a supercharger kit for them? If so is it to be advised? If not it is not beyond me to produce one, are there any pitfalls? E.G. Inadequate cooling?
Spare parts seem rarer than Porsche's, the car I viewed today needs some interior bits, notably the bottom rolling cover for the ashtray, are there any good breakers/parts suppliers?
How long do the autoboxes and torque converters and engines tend to last before needing a rebuild, obviously not taking neglect in to account.
And finally one feature I need is cruise control, was this standard? I would like panoramic roof but this seems rare yes? did any of the models ever come with a glove box per say, as the 1990 my dad owned and the 1994 I viewd today both didn't except the little flip up jobby.
Many thanks sorry it was a long one!
Firstly, W129 or R129? What is the difference if any?
The cars I am looking at are SL280/320 and 500, I am keeping away from 300's as I believe (wrongly?) that they are not as reliable. Certainly my dad's was never 100% and suffered from a couple of headgasket failures although it was a very well looked after car.
Bearing in mind that the car I am coming from is a lot of fun to drive, will I get bored quickly with a 280/320? Or for that matter a 500? I realise I will have to adjust to an auto, but that doesn't fill me with dread as I do big mileage so it would be relaxing, but I don't want to plant my foot to either overtake or have fun and be dissapointed and possibly left stranded on the wrong side of a lorry. I took a 320 out today and certainly driving round town it felt lithe enough but on a test drive out of respect to the owner it is hard to get a real feel for the car.
Are there any weak points on the cars? Anything to really check before buying?
What tuning options are available, does anyone produce a supercharger kit for them? If so is it to be advised? If not it is not beyond me to produce one, are there any pitfalls? E.G. Inadequate cooling?
Spare parts seem rarer than Porsche's, the car I viewed today needs some interior bits, notably the bottom rolling cover for the ashtray, are there any good breakers/parts suppliers?
How long do the autoboxes and torque converters and engines tend to last before needing a rebuild, obviously not taking neglect in to account.
And finally one feature I need is cruise control, was this standard? I would like panoramic roof but this seems rare yes? did any of the models ever come with a glove box per say, as the 1990 my dad owned and the 1994 I viewd today both didn't except the little flip up jobby.
Many thanks sorry it was a long one!
Hi wildoliver.
A topic was raised a few months ago, about the R129 SL, so rather than type out everything again, I'll quote what I said back then
That reg range is indeed the R129 model. All the details I've listed, I haven't double checked, so if any other PHers can correct me on any mis-informantion, please
The R129 had 3 specific "facelifts"
1989-93/94:
The engine choices are 3.0 12v straight 6, 3.0 24v straight 6 and 5.0 32v V8.
As with all straight 6 merc engines of this era, head gaskets can fail ~£600-1000
Four speed automatic gear boxes on all models. These are good, but watch for clunking through the gears...could mean a clutch has gone, but any garage/dealer will replace the gearbox ~£2,500-3,500 depending on model.
300SL
3.0 12v : ~190bhp ~190lb ft 0-60 ~9
300SL-24
3.0 24v : ~230bhp ~220lb ft 0-60 ~8
500SL
5.0 32v : 320bhp ~320lb ft 0-60 ~6
93/94 - 98/99
Gained new engines, bumpers, lights, side mouldings, upgraded interior extras, 5-speed gear box made option on 500 model, and standard on 280 and 320 models. "SL" Designation moved in front of the numbers. 2.8 24v straight 6 replaced 300SL, 3.2 24v straight 6 replaced 300SL-24, SL500 remained the same, although power dropped slightly due to emissions. 6.0 48v V12, SL600 added to the range with 4-speed gearbox.
Again watch for leaking head gaskets on the straight sixes.
SL280
2.8 24v : ~180bhp ~180lb ft 0-60 ~9
SL320
3.2 24v : ~220bhp ~219lb ft 0-60 ~8.5
SL500
5.0 32v : ~306bhp ~310lb ft 0-60 ~6
SL600
6.0 48v : ~389bhp ~400lb ft 0-60 ~6
98/99-2001
280 and 320 models gained slightly more economical V6's with 18v. 5-speed gearboxes standard across the range. Revised interiors. Xenons headlights added to extras.
Not too much to go wrong with this era SL.
All power/performance figures are about the same.
On all SL models, make sure all electrics work, including soft tops. All SLs came with hard tops (Steel as standard, panoramic glass as an option 98-2001). Make sure these are present. 2+2 seating is kind of a crock. The rear seats offer extremely little, if no leg room.
A full inspection should be made before purchase, and a FSH is essential. High miles shouldn't matter, so long as its been properly cared for.
Also worth mentioning (but I don't think relevant) are the AMG models. Rare SL60 AMG with 6.0 32v V8 ~380bhp ~380lb ft 0-60 ~5, and even rarer SL73 with 7.3 48v V12, 555bhp ~560lb ft 0-60 4.7.
For £7,000 you should be able to get a 70k+ mile car, but last "facelift" will be over budget. For that money, a good early car, or higher mile first "facelift" car will be within budget.
Look luck with your search!
Darren
A topic was raised a few months ago, about the R129 SL, so rather than type out everything again, I'll quote what I said back then
I said aaaages ago said:
That reg range is indeed the R129 model. All the details I've listed, I haven't double checked, so if any other PHers can correct me on any mis-informantion, please
The R129 had 3 specific "facelifts"
1989-93/94:
The engine choices are 3.0 12v straight 6, 3.0 24v straight 6 and 5.0 32v V8.
As with all straight 6 merc engines of this era, head gaskets can fail ~£600-1000
Four speed automatic gear boxes on all models. These are good, but watch for clunking through the gears...could mean a clutch has gone, but any garage/dealer will replace the gearbox ~£2,500-3,500 depending on model.
300SL
3.0 12v : ~190bhp ~190lb ft 0-60 ~9
300SL-24
3.0 24v : ~230bhp ~220lb ft 0-60 ~8
500SL
5.0 32v : 320bhp ~320lb ft 0-60 ~6
93/94 - 98/99
Gained new engines, bumpers, lights, side mouldings, upgraded interior extras, 5-speed gear box made option on 500 model, and standard on 280 and 320 models. "SL" Designation moved in front of the numbers. 2.8 24v straight 6 replaced 300SL, 3.2 24v straight 6 replaced 300SL-24, SL500 remained the same, although power dropped slightly due to emissions. 6.0 48v V12, SL600 added to the range with 4-speed gearbox.
Again watch for leaking head gaskets on the straight sixes.
SL280
2.8 24v : ~180bhp ~180lb ft 0-60 ~9
SL320
3.2 24v : ~220bhp ~219lb ft 0-60 ~8.5
SL500
5.0 32v : ~306bhp ~310lb ft 0-60 ~6
SL600
6.0 48v : ~389bhp ~400lb ft 0-60 ~6
98/99-2001
280 and 320 models gained slightly more economical V6's with 18v. 5-speed gearboxes standard across the range. Revised interiors. Xenons headlights added to extras.
Not too much to go wrong with this era SL.
All power/performance figures are about the same.
On all SL models, make sure all electrics work, including soft tops. All SLs came with hard tops (Steel as standard, panoramic glass as an option 98-2001). Make sure these are present. 2+2 seating is kind of a crock. The rear seats offer extremely little, if no leg room.
A full inspection should be made before purchase, and a FSH is essential. High miles shouldn't matter, so long as its been properly cared for.
Also worth mentioning (but I don't think relevant) are the AMG models. Rare SL60 AMG with 6.0 32v V8 ~380bhp ~380lb ft 0-60 ~5, and even rarer SL73 with 7.3 48v V12, 555bhp ~560lb ft 0-60 4.7.
For £7,000 you should be able to get a 70k+ mile car, but last "facelift" will be over budget. For that money, a good early car, or higher mile first "facelift" car will be within budget.
Look luck with your search!
Darren
That was very helpful! So how bad is the headgasket problem as mentioned we had one before that needed 2 in about 3 years, is it a case of some engines may never have a problem and some will eat them regularly, or is it a case of about every 50,000 miles budget for a headgasket?
I have found a car that appeals to me but I have some concerns. The car is; 95 320SL, solid red with cream leather, rear seats, wind deflector, cruise control, standard alloys, hard top present. 81,000 miles, 2 owners, last one for 7 years, lady of about 50-60 years, and I know the car, it is a very honest car that has had a lot spent on servicing it. "BUT" she nudged a fencepost with front bumper and had a smart repair done the work isn't amazing, and they blended in to the wing, they managed to flat through the galvanising in the process and there is a bit of rust showing on the edge of the wheelarch, and the wing paint isn't great, doesn't put me off as I restore cars and have a great paint guy. Also wheels need refurb, one hinge on drivers vanity mirror cover snapped (will glue), button on arm rest come off (will glue), cover for ashtray broken (will not glue believe these are ££££ Don't let me give the impression the car is a dog it isn't, it is by far one of the better ones I have seen, I saw a very iffy 600 the other day.
Well the car above is at a negotiable £9995, does this sound reasonable? Personally I think it needs to be a lot less, there is to get the bodywork mint (bubble on hardtop, scratch on one wing in to bonnet, above mentioned damage to other wing, small ding in one door) probably £500, plus another £150 of wheel work, then maybe £200 of interior bits (maybe more?) well that is £1000 straight away, plus it needs a service, again something I can do but that isn't the point, so what would be a fair offer because like I say I do like the car and I do like the people. Also what is resale like on a solid red 320sl?
Oliver
I have found a car that appeals to me but I have some concerns. The car is; 95 320SL, solid red with cream leather, rear seats, wind deflector, cruise control, standard alloys, hard top present. 81,000 miles, 2 owners, last one for 7 years, lady of about 50-60 years, and I know the car, it is a very honest car that has had a lot spent on servicing it. "BUT" she nudged a fencepost with front bumper and had a smart repair done the work isn't amazing, and they blended in to the wing, they managed to flat through the galvanising in the process and there is a bit of rust showing on the edge of the wheelarch, and the wing paint isn't great, doesn't put me off as I restore cars and have a great paint guy. Also wheels need refurb, one hinge on drivers vanity mirror cover snapped (will glue), button on arm rest come off (will glue), cover for ashtray broken (will not glue believe these are ££££
Don't let me give the impression the car is a dog it isn't, it is by far one of the better ones I have seen, I saw a very iffy 600 the other day. Well the car above is at a negotiable £9995, does this sound reasonable? Personally I think it needs to be a lot less, there is to get the bodywork mint (bubble on hardtop, scratch on one wing in to bonnet, above mentioned damage to other wing, small ding in one door) probably £500, plus another £150 of wheel work, then maybe £200 of interior bits (maybe more?) well that is £1000 straight away, plus it needs a service, again something I can do but that isn't the point, so what would be a fair offer because like I say I do like the car and I do like the people. Also what is resale like on a solid red 320sl?
Oliver
Being a 1995 320, check which 3.2 engine it has....V6 or straight 6. The later V6s are better.
The headgaskets go on the straight 6's (so the 300, 300-24 and 320)....but 2 in 3 years?!
That should NOT have happened. Was it definately head gasket each time, and not another seal which went?.....my one went "early" on my E320, at 81,000 miles, plus another oil seal leaked, too.
The head gasket on my old 230E (2.3 inline 4 8 valve) went, but at 181,000 miles!!
The car you describe does sound OK as far as price in concerned (well last time I checked Autotrader for those cars, anyway)....engine size doesn't appear to affect price very much when these cars start getting on in life, and the 320 is desirable, for everyday use - quick enough for most, with reasonable fuel economy.
Mileage sounds good, and all the minor problems you've pointed out, seem simple enough to rectify. As you said, with you're profession, you should be able to sort out the cosmetic issues. I would recommend useing a new genuine Mercedes front wing, though. Acid treating/rust repair will reappear on these cars within a year or two, if used every day. So if you're looking to keep it a fair while, I would say brand new Merc item. Non-genuine are reported to be poor quality. I had a new front wing for my E320 (due to rust) and it was about £170 + fitting & painting. R129 wings may be more....I'm not sure.
RE: Wheel refurb....depends which method you want. My parent's W140 CL need its wheels done, and they opted for a powder coat which was £50 per wheel. I had my centres powder coated, and wheel edge diamond cut polished which was £120 per corner - but they look fantastic!
RE: Sratches, hardtop rust and dents......My bodyshop does a stone chip & scratch repair, and machine polish for about £150. The rust, as its on the hardtop, should be a repair job, rather than replace such as item, on cost issues. As for dents, use Dent Devils? Assuming the area isn't double-skined, they should be easy to "suck" out.
I'm not too sure about the interior items....maybe try a breaker's yard for those? I know Mercedes do like charging quite a bit of some interior parts!
An SL320 should be easy to shift. Not so sure about solid red, as dark colors with light interiors, or Silver cars seems to go pretty quickly. Having said that, there are plenty of SL's for buyers to choose from, and plenty seem to like red!
Regards,
Darren
The headgaskets go on the straight 6's (so the 300, 300-24 and 320)....but 2 in 3 years?!
That should NOT have happened. Was it definately head gasket each time, and not another seal which went?.....my one went "early" on my E320, at 81,000 miles, plus another oil seal leaked, too. The head gasket on my old 230E (2.3 inline 4 8 valve) went, but at 181,000 miles!!
The car you describe does sound OK as far as price in concerned (well last time I checked Autotrader for those cars, anyway)....engine size doesn't appear to affect price very much when these cars start getting on in life, and the 320 is desirable, for everyday use - quick enough for most, with reasonable fuel economy.
Mileage sounds good, and all the minor problems you've pointed out, seem simple enough to rectify. As you said, with you're profession, you should be able to sort out the cosmetic issues. I would recommend useing a new genuine Mercedes front wing, though. Acid treating/rust repair will reappear on these cars within a year or two, if used every day. So if you're looking to keep it a fair while, I would say brand new Merc item. Non-genuine are reported to be poor quality. I had a new front wing for my E320 (due to rust) and it was about £170 + fitting & painting. R129 wings may be more....I'm not sure.
RE: Wheel refurb....depends which method you want. My parent's W140 CL need its wheels done, and they opted for a powder coat which was £50 per wheel. I had my centres powder coated, and wheel edge diamond cut polished which was £120 per corner - but they look fantastic!
RE: Sratches, hardtop rust and dents......My bodyshop does a stone chip & scratch repair, and machine polish for about £150. The rust, as its on the hardtop, should be a repair job, rather than replace such as item, on cost issues. As for dents, use Dent Devils? Assuming the area isn't double-skined, they should be easy to "suck" out.
I'm not too sure about the interior items....maybe try a breaker's yard for those? I know Mercedes do like charging quite a bit of some interior parts!
An SL320 should be easy to shift. Not so sure about solid red, as dark colors with light interiors, or Silver cars seems to go pretty quickly. Having said that, there are plenty of SL's for buyers to choose from, and plenty seem to like red!
Regards,
Darren
Cheers Darren you have been a great help, I would probably respray the wing for the time being as it is not "through" yet, and if it does a couple of years before coming through I will buy a new wing then.
I would do wheels myself anyway. Basically I would only farm out the roof and wings. The dint I would probably live with as it is so small.
Where do you reckon I should be pitching with it? start at £8,500? Or a bit less?
Oh and it is a straight six.
I would do wheels myself anyway. Basically I would only farm out the roof and wings. The dint I would probably live with as it is so small.
Where do you reckon I should be pitching with it? start at £8,500? Or a bit less?
Oh and it is a straight six.
wildoliver said:
Cheers Darren you have been a great help, I would probably respray the wing for the time being as it is not "through" yet, and if it does a couple of years before coming through I will buy a new wing then.
I would do wheels myself anyway. Basically I would only farm out the roof and wings. The dint I would probably live with as it is so small.
Where do you reckon I should be pitching with it? start at £8,500? Or a bit less?
Oh and it is a straight six.
I would do wheels myself anyway. Basically I would only farm out the roof and wings. The dint I would probably live with as it is so small.
Where do you reckon I should be pitching with it? start at £8,500? Or a bit less?
Oh and it is a straight six.
No problems. Glad I could be of some assistance!
Say start in £8,000 and guage her reaction? Depends how esperate she is to sell. But I wouldn't go much over £9,500.
Good Luck! Let the bidding commence!
Darren
Edited by iluvmercs on Tuesday 10th April 20:07
Went to view two today, one at dealer in the scarborough area and the one I mentioned above.
The one at the dealer was erm iffy.
The Private one we had a good look round and I was seriously considering starting to put an offer in, until I had a quick look underneath just after the test drive, in less than 5 mins about 50ml of oil was on the floor, thats quite a good sized splat!
So back to the drawing board.
The one at the dealer was erm iffy.
The Private one we had a good look round and I was seriously considering starting to put an offer in, until I had a quick look underneath just after the test drive, in less than 5 mins about 50ml of oil was on the floor, thats quite a good sized splat!
So back to the drawing board.
wildoliver said:
Went to view two today, one at dealer in the scarborough area and the one I mentioned above.
The one at the dealer was erm iffy.
The Private one we had a good look round and I was seriously considering starting to put an offer in, until I had a quick look underneath just after the test drive, in less than 5 mins about 50ml of oil was on the floor, thats quite a good sized splat!
So back to the drawing board.
The one at the dealer was erm iffy.
The Private one we had a good look round and I was seriously considering starting to put an offer in, until I had a quick look underneath just after the test drive, in less than 5 mins about 50ml of oil was on the floor, thats quite a good sized splat!
So back to the drawing board.
Keep trying though.....there are plenty of good ones out there for under £10k!
Darren
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