190E 2.5-16 vs. 330Cd drag race
Discussion
My day of reckoning has come!
My colleague here at work should tomorrow be picking up a 2005 330Cd with 7k miles and manual gearbox. This is replacing his 2004 320d he's only had 12 months but was failing to excite him. I have been itching to get a drive/ride in a 330d to see what they're like so next week will be my chance. We will also have a friendly straight line drag race to see which is quicker. Amazingly enough, both my 190E "cosworth" and a 330Cd have the same 204bhp as standard.
So who's your money on to win? The turbo 330d has 300+ lbft of torque versus my naturally aspirated 177 lbft, but the BMW is also a heavy beast at 1590Kg (?) versus 1300kg. I can tell you that I will be very surprised and happy if my car is equal. As an added twist it has very poor compression, could do with a top end rebuild and smokes & burns oil, plus there's a nice flat spot at 3500rpm. But it also goes like stink at the top end
and did dispatch one Cooper S surprisingly breezily.
P.S. I know a drag is not comparable to everyday driving and a 330d will be much quicker out of corners or in higher gears, or if it was tuned 
.
My colleague here at work should tomorrow be picking up a 2005 330Cd with 7k miles and manual gearbox. This is replacing his 2004 320d he's only had 12 months but was failing to excite him. I have been itching to get a drive/ride in a 330d to see what they're like so next week will be my chance. We will also have a friendly straight line drag race to see which is quicker. Amazingly enough, both my 190E "cosworth" and a 330Cd have the same 204bhp as standard.
So who's your money on to win? The turbo 330d has 300+ lbft of torque versus my naturally aspirated 177 lbft, but the BMW is also a heavy beast at 1590Kg (?) versus 1300kg. I can tell you that I will be very surprised and happy if my car is equal. As an added twist it has very poor compression, could do with a top end rebuild and smokes & burns oil, plus there's a nice flat spot at 3500rpm. But it also goes like stink at the top end
and did dispatch one Cooper S surprisingly breezily. P.S. I know a drag is not comparable to everyday driving and a 330d will be much quicker out of corners or in higher gears
, or if it was tuned . Edited by pentoman on Thursday 9th November 11:51
I dunno mate, those 330d's are quick as.
how far is the drag race?
Maybe neck and neck till about 80-90 then I recon he'll start pulling on you. But hey, prove me wrong mate, old skool rules!!
(take the spare wheel out-surprising you can feel a slight difference & fill it up with optimax!)
PLUG:P.s my old 2.3's up for grabs at the princely sum of £1200:END PLUG!
how far is the drag race?
Maybe neck and neck till about 80-90 then I recon he'll start pulling on you. But hey, prove me wrong mate, old skool rules!!
(take the spare wheel out-surprising you can feel a slight difference & fill it up with optimax!)
PLUG:P.s my old 2.3's up for grabs at the princely sum of £1200:END PLUG!
Hmmmm....tough one to call. 330Ci (petrol) cabriolet I can just about match in my E320. (Probably just down to the cabrios weight as I know I can't keep up with the coupe)
The 330Cd would obviously be slower than this off the line, so I think it'll be an even match up to higher speeds.
No matter what happens, which car would you rather be in
Let us know how it goes!!!!
Darren
The 330Cd would obviously be slower than this off the line, so I think it'll be an even match up to higher speeds.
No matter what happens, which car would you rather be in
Let us know how it goes!!!!
Darren
I'll try and get a video. We'll try and do a rolling start one so as to rule out the advantage to whoever gets a better launch.
I won't pump my tyres up or remove my spare or anything.. that's cheating! I'm prepared to loose gracefully
I won't pump my tyres up or remove my spare or anything.. that's cheating! I'm prepared to loose gracefully
Edited by pentoman on Thursday 9th November 14:20
Don't do a rolling start, you'll defo loose then. Off the line the 330d has a take up time of about 1-1.5 secs in which you're going to have to make your lead good! If your mate has got used to it already he'll push the gas pedal just about a second before he needs it, if not you should be ok!
Other than that, have you had your car dynoed recently? Most cars like your's will loose a chunk of bhp over the years, in which case you'll defo be in trouble.
Other than that, have you had your car dynoed recently? Most cars like your's will loose a chunk of bhp over the years, in which case you'll defo be in trouble.
OK well I've just been out for a passenger ride in the 330Cd. I have to say, it's laughably quick, and has the kind of grunt that I miss in the Merc. The power delivery on the Merc is just so linear and boring that it feels slower than it is. I'd almost prefer a VTEC all-or-nothing delivery!!
Anyway, regardless of whether my car is quicker or slower, I do wish it had the kind of mid range that the diesel has as it's most entertaining!
A race may be on for this saturday - we are both going to get the cars dyno'd at Powerstation.
Anyway, regardless of whether my car is quicker or slower, I do wish it had the kind of mid range that the diesel has as it's most entertaining!
A race may be on for this saturday - we are both going to get the cars dyno'd at Powerstation.
Edited by pentoman on Monday 20th November 12:58
Well I finally got round to doing this today. Nice and safe, empty 70mph dual carriageway, both of us in communication via mobiles with hands free (bluetooth via the radio in the BMW... old-school wires and earphones in the Merc ). Started off at about 40mph and had a good few goes.
Side by side, with me counting down 3,2,1, I kept getting a headstart because he was finding himself off the turbo or having a brief wait while it spooled up. On these occasions I jumped ahead to start with then just held him off, the BMW wouldn't gain.
When the start was even however, he would start to pull away. Sometimes we'd be even depending on what gears we were in but generally the BMW inched away continually.
The BMW is quicker, as I expected after passengering in it (what an engine!). But only by a little - I was surprised that he didn't blow me away like I expected. Very surprised. The BMW feels so much faster than the Mercedes but according to our little sprint the difference is not as big as it feels, and I guess the diesel's towering 300+ lbft versus the 2.5s 177 lbft doesn't count for much in a straight line drag - it's just down to power. As long as you keep the Merc between 4000 and 7000 rpm, which is easily done if a little (ok a lot) noisy. Of course the BMW too has to be kept between 1500 rpm and ~4500 rpm but that's probably far more relaxing!
The BMW still feels much faster though. And to me that's the point. The Mercedes regularly disappoints me by not providing a whoosh of strong acceleration. The fact that it is obviously quicker than it feels is just even more annoying! Whereas the BMW does have a nice rush of acceleration and I find that much more satisfying than screaming around at 7000 rpm. And let's not even mention 25MPG versus 40+MPG.
I guess good handling is the trade off in the Merc, but I've never heard anyone complaining about the handling on a 330Cd......
For the sticklers - we both had no passengers, I had a little more fuel on board and it was only Tesco 95 RON but I don't think the Merc takes advantage of 98 RON anyway according to the instruction manual - there's no knock sensor. Also a fwe months ago we rolling roaded both cars on the same day, his made estimated 220bhp at the flywheel, mine made estimated 186bhp. So he was up on power versus stock and I was down.
). Started off at about 40mph and had a good few goes. Side by side, with me counting down 3,2,1, I kept getting a headstart because he was finding himself off the turbo or having a brief wait while it spooled up. On these occasions I jumped ahead to start with then just held him off, the BMW wouldn't gain.
When the start was even however, he would start to pull away. Sometimes we'd be even depending on what gears we were in but generally the BMW inched away continually.
The BMW is quicker, as I expected after passengering in it (what an engine!). But only by a little - I was surprised that he didn't blow me away like I expected. Very surprised. The BMW feels so much faster than the Mercedes but according to our little sprint the difference is not as big as it feels, and I guess the diesel's towering 300+ lbft versus the 2.5s 177 lbft doesn't count for much in a straight line drag - it's just down to power. As long as you keep the Merc between 4000 and 7000 rpm, which is easily done if a little (ok a lot) noisy. Of course the BMW too has to be kept between 1500 rpm and ~4500 rpm but that's probably far more relaxing!
The BMW still feels much faster though. And to me that's the point. The Mercedes regularly disappoints me by not providing a whoosh of strong acceleration. The fact that it is obviously quicker than it feels is just even more annoying! Whereas the BMW does have a nice rush of acceleration and I find that much more satisfying than screaming around at 7000 rpm. And let's not even mention 25MPG versus 40+MPG.
I guess good handling is the trade off in the Merc, but I've never heard anyone complaining about the handling on a 330Cd......
For the sticklers - we both had no passengers, I had a little more fuel on board and it was only Tesco 95 RON but I don't think the Merc takes advantage of 98 RON anyway according to the instruction manual - there's no knock sensor. Also a fwe months ago we rolling roaded both cars on the same day, his made estimated 220bhp at the flywheel, mine made estimated 186bhp. So he was up on power versus stock and I was down.
I can't believe it was back in November, the last reply to this thread was posted! How time flies
Of course we could all guess the Beemer would be faster, but the fact there's VERY little in it, must be rather satisfying, eh pento
I know what you mean about the "sudden woosh" you want. My cars the same here, very level (if quick) acceleration. My friend's last generation Astra was the same speed at the E320, but his being a turbo petrol, you felt it so much more!
Still.....its nice to know your older car can still hold it own against its modern arch rival
Thanks for the eagerly awaited post!
Darren
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