190e as daily drive
Discussion
Hi,
I'm thinking about getting a 190e as a daily driver, max 10k miles per year. I'm looking for a comfy automatic with a bit of performance but not boy racer stuff. Could anyone offer some practical advice on suitable models, things to look for places to buy etc? I quite like the idea of a 2.6 although I've not driven one yet. Budget wise I'm pretty flexible.
Cheers.
I'm thinking about getting a 190e as a daily driver, max 10k miles per year. I'm looking for a comfy automatic with a bit of performance but not boy racer stuff. Could anyone offer some practical advice on suitable models, things to look for places to buy etc? I quite like the idea of a 2.6 although I've not driven one yet. Budget wise I'm pretty flexible.
Cheers.
I've had three 190e's and find them to be great cars. In my opinion, better engineered than the later c class models.
The 'e' means injection, the 190 without the 'e' have a carb, and are slower then the 190e, which isn't the fastest thing in the world but more than adequate, besides, it isn't the car to go fast in, you relax and let the car get on with it. Two of mine were manuals, and one an auto. People rant about merc manuals being terrible, but I can honestly say mine were fine, no problems at all. They were faultlessly reliable (if serviced) and never ever gave me a cause for concern.
My father recently sold his Y reg Renault laguna
and was so taken with my old 190e that he badgered me for so long I gave it to him. He now has a C200 Elegance, and refuses to give me the 190e back "just in case the C200 breaks down, as it's not as solid as the 190" 
That sums it up really.....
Things to watch for.....
Not a great deal, but they can get a bit smoky, but that's the same with all cars, valve stems etc etc,
Sometimes cams wear out on them, but as a rule they are like tanks.
I've never had a 2.6 version, but are led to believe they are good. I'm shortly chopping my BMW 535i in for a C280 sport. I just hope it's as well put together as the 190, but I doubt it.
Just seen your 993, god that's nice Jim....
The 'e' means injection, the 190 without the 'e' have a carb, and are slower then the 190e, which isn't the fastest thing in the world but more than adequate, besides, it isn't the car to go fast in, you relax and let the car get on with it. Two of mine were manuals, and one an auto. People rant about merc manuals being terrible, but I can honestly say mine were fine, no problems at all. They were faultlessly reliable (if serviced) and never ever gave me a cause for concern.
My father recently sold his Y reg Renault laguna
and was so taken with my old 190e that he badgered me for so long I gave it to him. He now has a C200 Elegance, and refuses to give me the 190e back "just in case the C200 breaks down, as it's not as solid as the 190" That sums it up really..... Things to watch for.....
Not a great deal, but they can get a bit smoky, but that's the same with all cars, valve stems etc etc,
Sometimes cams wear out on them, but as a rule they are like tanks.
I've never had a 2.6 version, but are led to believe they are good. I'm shortly chopping my BMW 535i in for a C280 sport. I just hope it's as well put together as the 190, but I doubt it.
Just seen your 993, god that's nice Jim....
Edited by silverback mike on Monday 31st July 19:31
I'm sure pentoman will be along soon to give a more in-depth analysis of the 190E...he's a moderator on a 190E Owners website (can't remember the addy tho 
)
I've never owned a 190, but I've driven a 2.0 auto and 1.8 manual. The 1.8 manual was a good runabout, very economical. The 2.0 has more noticable poke and (IMHO) was better in auto form.
Although I've never driven one, I know the 2.6 will be smoother and pretty darn quick!
As for things to watch out for....as with the engines of that era, I should imagine head gaskets can go, but usually well into 100k+ mileages, and I've read about a rear axle whine could mean a worn diff.
Mercedes Enthusiast covered a "190 saloon Buyer's Guide" in their October 2003 edition.
What Goes Wrong
Even the newest 190 has now seen ten years service, so although inherently exceptionally reliable cars, inspection is everything. High milers will have a worn driver's seat, and axle whine and wandery steering should be looked for. The steering box can be adjusted to a point, though this is not a DIY prospect, and the eventual rebuild will be £350, fitted. Having a noisy diff rebuilt will cost around £500. High miles may see steering idler arms bushes and dampers wear out. More serious is wear in the bottom ball joints, as this can lead to suspension collapse.
Replacement of the wishbone bushes, often damaged by oil leaks, is problematic. At the back, a worn ball joint will make the car unstable. Eight-valve, 2.6 and all diesel units are generally extremely reliable. In 1987 the single-row timing chain changed to a two-row, and pre '87 cars may rattle. Replacement is a costly £500. Over 80,000 miles, engines may burn oil. Valve stem oil seals can be easily replaced, but valve guides are more complex. Gearboxes are reliable, but make the usual checks, and particularly look for leaks on the auto.
Remember that a Cosworth had probably been driven hard, so keep an eye out for clonky suspension, and listen for excessive timing chain noise. These can stretch, altering the valve timing and making performance flat. Replacement and resetting of tappets will set you back £700. Carefully inspect for crash damage. These cars are not rust prone, so suspect repairs or abuse on any corroded vehicle. The 16-valve cars will need knowledgeable specialist service, but the lesser models are easy to look after. Spares are inexpensive and plentiful, though as ever, be cautious of pattern parts.
Hope this helps
Darren
) I've never owned a 190, but I've driven a 2.0 auto and 1.8 manual. The 1.8 manual was a good runabout, very economical. The 2.0 has more noticable poke and (IMHO) was better in auto form.
Although I've never driven one, I know the 2.6 will be smoother and pretty darn quick!
As for things to watch out for....as with the engines of that era, I should imagine head gaskets can go, but usually well into 100k+ mileages, and I've read about a rear axle whine could mean a worn diff.
Mercedes Enthusiast covered a "190 saloon Buyer's Guide" in their October 2003 edition.
Mercedes Enthusiast October 2003 said:
What Goes Wrong
Even the newest 190 has now seen ten years service, so although inherently exceptionally reliable cars, inspection is everything. High milers will have a worn driver's seat, and axle whine and wandery steering should be looked for. The steering box can be adjusted to a point, though this is not a DIY prospect, and the eventual rebuild will be £350, fitted. Having a noisy diff rebuilt will cost around £500. High miles may see steering idler arms bushes and dampers wear out. More serious is wear in the bottom ball joints, as this can lead to suspension collapse.
Replacement of the wishbone bushes, often damaged by oil leaks, is problematic. At the back, a worn ball joint will make the car unstable. Eight-valve, 2.6 and all diesel units are generally extremely reliable. In 1987 the single-row timing chain changed to a two-row, and pre '87 cars may rattle. Replacement is a costly £500. Over 80,000 miles, engines may burn oil. Valve stem oil seals can be easily replaced, but valve guides are more complex. Gearboxes are reliable, but make the usual checks, and particularly look for leaks on the auto.
Remember that a Cosworth had probably been driven hard, so keep an eye out for clonky suspension, and listen for excessive timing chain noise. These can stretch, altering the valve timing and making performance flat. Replacement and resetting of tappets will set you back £700. Carefully inspect for crash damage. These cars are not rust prone, so suspect repairs or abuse on any corroded vehicle. The 16-valve cars will need knowledgeable specialist service, but the lesser models are easy to look after. Spares are inexpensive and plentiful, though as ever, be cautious of pattern parts.
Hope this helps
Darren
Edited by iluvmercs on Tuesday 1st August 16:58
iluvmercs said:
I'm sure pentoman will be along soon to give a more in-depth analysis of the 190E...he's a moderator on a 190E Owners website (can't remember the addy tho )
) ooh I'm famous. www.mercedes190.co.uk .
As a daily driver they are great, so long as you're not looking for grin-inducing thrills. Of course you can get a much newer Vectra/406 or something for a similar price though, which would feel more modern.
Should be great for doing lots of miles, because you know it will relish it.
A good specification one is nearly as nice and luxury-esque as an old BMW 5/7-series or Jag, but with the bonus of being reliable, going on for ever, and also being inexpensive to run.
Make sure it's not a total rustbucket, the auto does not slip or bang (bangs on engaging D/R are a pretty simple repair), and the engine isn't generally shagged. A 150,000 mile car that's maintained and feels nice is better than a 100,000 mile car where everything needs reparing/replacing.
The handling is great, balanced, surprisingly grippy and can be made to do all sorts like power-oversteer and lift-off oversteer nice and smoothly (this in a 2.0 automatic!).
However it rolls a huge amount. Also it's not very responsive or feelsome, and feels very dated vs modern cars... but then I thought similar when I first drove a 993 so maybe they'll match!
The later cars are hardly any different to early ones - a bit nicer in detail areas that's all.
Electric stuff doesn't break except the electric windows.
On performance.. the 2.0 injection (122bhp) goes similarly to a modern 2.0 Mondeo/Vectra/Laguna/Audi A4 etc. Expect 29mpg commuting, 33 on runs.
Sounds to me like you'd be best of with a 2.6 straight-six though
- performance not miles off the cosworths, and a simpler maintenance proposition. The auto is good, more of a help than a hindrance.
Low gearing on the motorway the biggest giveaway of age, although it does mean it's in the torque/powerband at 80mph.
Also the interior is really not very spacious at all - the best reason for upgrading to an E-class.
The main problem with buying one is that there are so many crap ones out there to sift through. These have often fallen victim to lack of maintenance, rust and general shabbyness. But they're easy to spot once you've got a feel for things, then there are plenty of nice ones around to buy.
www.mercseller.com has loads of nice ones but the prices are very high. Proabably worth it if you can't be bothered to sift through the local garages and private ads though.
Here's a nice 2.6 www.mercseller.com/popup.cfm?p_n=378558&p_i=378558 even with cruise control which is rare!
let us know
Russell
Edited by pentoman on Friday 11th August 14:57
I owned a 190E for about 4 years in the '90s - put about 60,000 miles on it (taking it to 160,000 miles) and it was the most reliable car I have ever owned. Not fast, but well put together. I liked it so much that I bought a 1 owner 98,000 mile 2.3-16 with full leather in February this year, from ebay for £1500.
The 2.3 is a peach - great handling, reasonably quick, good brakes and no rust at all. Totally lives up to the bomb-proof experience I had with my 190E. Mind you, I haven't had it serviced yet....I don't use it everyday, but it certainly feels like I could use it in that way.
I'd find an 1993 auto 2.0 LE if I were you. Also look out for rot around the seam in the boot below the rear window, above the rear lights, around the headlights and around the aerial.
I;d also add that in my first car the speed drive kept failing at the head end and as such the mileometer worked only periodically. This was due to wear on the peg and as such I found out how easy the cars are to clck - the binnacle just pulls straight out.
Oh and can anyone tell me what grade of oil to use in the 2.3-16?
The 2.3 is a peach - great handling, reasonably quick, good brakes and no rust at all. Totally lives up to the bomb-proof experience I had with my 190E. Mind you, I haven't had it serviced yet....I don't use it everyday, but it certainly feels like I could use it in that way.
I'd find an 1993 auto 2.0 LE if I were you. Also look out for rot around the seam in the boot below the rear window, above the rear lights, around the headlights and around the aerial.
I;d also add that in my first car the speed drive kept failing at the head end and as such the mileometer worked only periodically. This was due to wear on the peg and as such I found out how easy the cars are to clck - the binnacle just pulls straight out.
Oh and can anyone tell me what grade of oil to use in the 2.3-16?
I ran a 190E for a couple of years until some t
t ran into the back of me and wrote it off. It's the only car I've owned that I really miss. I used to travel from Aldershot to Paderborn (Germany) in it every three weeks and it just ate the motorway miles.
Lovely cars and bulletproof if well looked after.
t ran into the back of me and wrote it off. It's the only car I've owned that I really miss. I used to travel from Aldershot to Paderborn (Germany) in it every three weeks and it just ate the motorway miles. Lovely cars and bulletproof if well looked after.
rubystone said:
I;d also add that in my first car the speed drive kept failing at the head end and as such the mileometer worked only periodically. This was due to wear on the peg and as such I found out how easy the cars are to clck - the binnacle just pulls straight out.
Yes easily clocked, so get a guage of interior wear etc so you can form your own ideas of real mileage before buying a car.
Well chaps, thanks for all the advice - I had a slight change of heart and ended up buying a '94 E220 sportline coupe. Not a 190 I know but it just felt right. So far so good, it's in mint condition and is very nice to drive, just what I was looking for. Booked into the local indie tomorrow to get the air con gassed and a general check over so lets hope i'm not back here tomorrow asking where to get hold of a new gearbox etc!
pentoman said:
I've heard sportline's are fairly stiff - is it?
I used to own a 230E with sportline suspension/alloy wheel factory option, and have driven a standard suspension 230TE and E220
Not particularly stiff vs the stanard. I just noticed less roll in the corners, which is certainly welcome!! Long journeys where just as comfortable, the ride not suffering at all
Darren
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