Merc 190E Cossies.
Discussion
Ah another one for me 
There's an article all about it floating around on the web somewhere..
ah here's a transcript of it:
www.190revolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8015
The Evo I is apparently very different to the basic 16v. I've never seen a list of the changes made (does anybody even know what they are?) but I know they stretch as far as the engine being a short-stroke version of the normal 2.5. The power claim is the same (204PS), the change is simply for higher revving capability in the track versions.
There is also an AMG power pack available. I think this was standard on the Evo II which is why it has 235 bhp. But you could also have it on the Evo I, so some I's will have 235bhp. It was massively expensive though so not common.
Supposedly the Evo I and II aren't that different. Discussing brakes recently I discovered the II (and possibly I as well?) has some of the stronger wheel/hub parts from an R129 SL-class instead of the standard 2.5s 300E parts. Presumably another homologation change.
Oh just found another article:
www.190revolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2830
Also the Evo II's rear spoiler has two wings, I think the lower is adjustable.
There is no Evo III though one company made a bodykit that it called Evo III.
The bodykits on each are very functional. On the basic 16v it reduced drag whilst also increasing downforce/reducing lift. I suspect the Evo's does more of the same.
If you want to speak to some owners, come to mercedes190.co.uk ( http://s14.invisionfree.com/mercedes_190_club/index. ) where I am an admin, we have a (very) small number of Evo owners. They are very rare, I suspect a lot of them are in hiding.
That's a member's Evo II.
http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new14rr.jpg
http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new26te.jpg]
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new33ck.jpg]
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new46df.jpg]
That's a member's Evo I.
That Evo II at the top has the standard 17" wheels, the Evo I has non standard ones.
Standard Evo I wheels look just like the normal 16v wheels but are 16". Not sure why the chap above changed them really?
The basic engines are very capable; the very first 16v's were built to 320bhp spec before Mercedes decided to make roadgoing versions. That power is still in there waiting to be released - replacing the fancy but very outdated electronics/ignition with an aftermarket CIS setup apparently goes a long way towards releasing it.
Thinking of buying one then?
Or have I wasted all this time answering a passing question when "bigger spoiler" would have done the trick?
Russell
>> Edited by pentoman on Tuesday 31st January 16:34
>> Edited by pentoman on Tuesday 31st January 16:35
There's an article all about it floating around on the web somewhere..
ah here's a transcript of it:
www.190revolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8015
The Evo I is apparently very different to the basic 16v. I've never seen a list of the changes made (does anybody even know what they are?) but I know they stretch as far as the engine being a short-stroke version of the normal 2.5. The power claim is the same (204PS), the change is simply for higher revving capability in the track versions.
There is also an AMG power pack available. I think this was standard on the Evo II which is why it has 235 bhp. But you could also have it on the Evo I, so some I's will have 235bhp. It was massively expensive though so not common.
Supposedly the Evo I and II aren't that different. Discussing brakes recently I discovered the II (and possibly I as well?) has some of the stronger wheel/hub parts from an R129 SL-class instead of the standard 2.5s 300E parts. Presumably another homologation change.
Oh just found another article:
www.190revolution.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2830
Also the Evo II's rear spoiler has two wings, I think the lower is adjustable.
There is no Evo III though one company made a bodykit that it called Evo III.
The bodykits on each are very functional. On the basic 16v it reduced drag whilst also increasing downforce/reducing lift. I suspect the Evo's does more of the same.
If you want to speak to some owners, come to mercedes190.co.uk ( http://s14.invisionfree.com/mercedes_190_club/index. ) where I am an admin, we have a (very) small number of Evo owners. They are very rare, I suspect a lot of them are in hiding.
That's a member's Evo II.
http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new14rr.jpg
http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new26te.jpg] http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new33ck.jpg] http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new46df.jpg] That's a member's Evo I.
That Evo II at the top has the standard 17" wheels, the Evo I has non standard ones.
Standard Evo I wheels look just like the normal 16v wheels but are 16". Not sure why the chap above changed them really?
The basic engines are very capable; the very first 16v's were built to 320bhp spec before Mercedes decided to make roadgoing versions. That power is still in there waiting to be released - replacing the fancy but very outdated electronics/ignition with an aftermarket CIS setup apparently goes a long way towards releasing it.
Thinking of buying one then?
Or have I wasted all this time answering a passing question when "bigger spoiler" would have done the trick? Russell
>> Edited by pentoman on Tuesday 31st January 16:34
>> Edited by pentoman on Tuesday 31st January 16:35
pwig said:
what's the difference between the EVO 1 and 2?
There are a fair few differences. Bodywork being just one. The Evo 1 vs standard cosworth has wider arches, 16" 15-hole design wheels, and a larger rear spoiler. The Evo 2 has wider arches still and a HUGE rear wing, not to mention an even lower front spoiler. There are also 17" alloys, in a 5-spoke design on the Evo 2.
Although the Cosworth, Evo 1 & Evo 2 share the same basic 2.5 litre 16 valve in-line 4 cylinder unit, the Evo models actually have a 35cc smaller capacity because the bore and stroke where altered Cosworth to Evo models. All 502 Evo 1's were made in 1989, with all 502 Evo 2's being made in 1990. The limited number was to comply to the minimum requirements set by the German Touring Car (DTM) regulations, so Mercedes could compete. All were Left Hand Drive.
As for power differences....Evo 1 has 204bhp at 6750rpm and 177lb/ft torque at 5000-5500rpm. The Evo 2 had 235bhp at 7200rpm and 181lb/ft torque at 5400rpm. 0-62 times for the Evo 1 and Evo 2 are 7.5 and 7.2, respectively. Vmax for the Evo 1 is 147mph and the Evo 2 is limited to 155mph. Both Evo models have use the same 5-speed manual gearbox, with a "dog-leg" 1st gear (1st gear is in the down, left position).
I'm sure pentoman will add a post when he sees this thread. He's a better authority on 190's than myself - he's got a 2.5-16
Hope all this is informative!
Darren
P.S. All those figures are taken from Mercedes Enthusiast Issue 20 (June 2003). They actually did an on-track comparison between the 2.5-16 Cosworth, the Evo 1 and the Evo 2. www.mercedesenthusiast.co.uk is where you can order back issues.
) 
Mercedes Enthusiast often seem a bit out on the 0-60 times. In that last email I sent about your Cossie vs. my E320, I mentioned in that Mercedes book (written at the time when the Cossie's were still in production) quote 0-60 for the 2.3-16 as 7.4 secs, so no doubt the Evo 1 & 2 are bound to be faster
Darren
Darren
pwig said:
I thinking
But then again I think alot.
Trying to think wether it is worth the extra moolah for an EVO 1 over a standard 190 2.5 though
Hmm.. My thinking is it is worth it if:
You can afford it
You like/appreciate the rarity, specialness & classic appeal
You can park it off the road to keep it safe and don't mind the extra attention
You don't mind the increased costs for those body parts (being rare and all that) and some mechanical parts
Also if you were going to track it or anything (may be sacrilegous, but the Evo was ultimately designed for the track more than almost any other car)
It's not worth it if:
You just want a daily driver
You want to blow away modern performance cars on straight bits of road (just buy an old WRX STi)
That said there's something about driving around day to day in one of those Evo IIs that really does appeal
.. it's as purposeful as a Ferrari Enzo but without the mental speeds! www.strictlyeta.net/articles.html
that link has an article comparing Evo II to Audi S2 and BMW M3. Interesting all 3 apparently top out at 154 mph.
Russell
pwig said:
Tis an interesting one. I think I will have to have a drive
Here you go
. 1,150 miles, never registered, £40,000.
Done
.pwig said:
Ok the insurance company laughed down the phone at the thought of an EVO
I had Norwich Union do that to me last year when I asked them about a standard E320 Coupe and 19yrs old.....low and behold what am I driving now? an E320 Coupe, which is modified! (Granted on my Dads policy at £2,700 with his NCB)
One of these brokers quoted me (again at 19yrs old) £4,600 on a C36 AMG, so seeing as thats the RHD predecessor to the Evo 1 and Evo 2, I dread to think what they'd quote! lol
Darren
pwig said:
....just the evo bit they didn't like
Similar thing I was told with the C36....insurance companies cringe when they hear "young driver" and those magic letters A M G! lol
Thats just the annoying thing with this country if you're a young driver. If you can afford, say an Evo, they will certainly get you with the insurance!!! Yet our American counter-parts can drive around in V8s as soon as they can crawl!
C'est la vie!
Darren
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