Mercedes CLS 350 CDI SB
Discussion
First of all, hello all as this is my first post!
Have been looking for a CLS350 Shooting Brake for a few months now as they have now hit a price point that got me itching and after looking at 4 I purchased a black AMG line 2013 350 CDI for £11500 from a dealer in Huntingdon. FMBSH 75k miles and great spec (upgraded HK audio) rear camera, memory heated seats etc
The car drives lovely, so smooth and tonnes of touque so I got it booked into my usual MB Indy garage (pro-tech near newbury) to give it a health check. Car is generally great with only a misting of oil at one of the top turbo breather pipes (common on this engine) but the brake lines are shockingly bad, so much so that my mechanic told me to leave gaps and not brake too late as it looks like they're ready to fail!!
Now, I know this is a 10 year old car and I'm kind of prepared for age related mantenance but the dealer I bought it from put a new MOT on it, with no advisories!! I very much take that as a pinch of salt but is this borderline neglegent??
I've uploaded photos of them
![](https://thumbsnap.com/t/BtC9ATNX.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/SH8atqem" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/t/SH8atqem.jpg)
I've contacted the dealer and he's already saying, oh well its a "10 year old car" which is not great but he has offered to take the car in and investigate, just wanted some more opinion on it. Is this basically a "dealer friendly" MOT which is not worth the paper its written on?
Rest of the car is great, I'm happy with it other than this fault, obviously it will get done but pushing for the dealer to cover it and get it fixed.
Have been looking for a CLS350 Shooting Brake for a few months now as they have now hit a price point that got me itching and after looking at 4 I purchased a black AMG line 2013 350 CDI for £11500 from a dealer in Huntingdon. FMBSH 75k miles and great spec (upgraded HK audio) rear camera, memory heated seats etc
The car drives lovely, so smooth and tonnes of touque so I got it booked into my usual MB Indy garage (pro-tech near newbury) to give it a health check. Car is generally great with only a misting of oil at one of the top turbo breather pipes (common on this engine) but the brake lines are shockingly bad, so much so that my mechanic told me to leave gaps and not brake too late as it looks like they're ready to fail!!
Now, I know this is a 10 year old car and I'm kind of prepared for age related mantenance but the dealer I bought it from put a new MOT on it, with no advisories!! I very much take that as a pinch of salt but is this borderline neglegent??
I've uploaded photos of them
I've contacted the dealer and he's already saying, oh well its a "10 year old car" which is not great but he has offered to take the car in and investigate, just wanted some more opinion on it. Is this basically a "dealer friendly" MOT which is not worth the paper its written on?
Rest of the car is great, I'm happy with it other than this fault, obviously it will get done but pushing for the dealer to cover it and get it fixed.
My CLS SB is now 10 yrs old and before I bought it nearly 4 years ago there was an advisory on the previous MOT for brake lines....I had the dealer I bought it off change them. Fast forward to 12 months ago and another advisory but this time around the garage put some sand paper around the areas in question & then started some under body protector on.
Mine's just about to pass 100k miles (bought at about 64k miles) and has currently full MB/Merc specialist history but I'm inclined to go with my local garage now as the specialist I used in the East Midlands seriously teed me off in connection with a rear suspension fault. Anyway apart from an air con switch and a broken wire on the self levelling suspension it had been reliable until today... I had a full dash of warning lights come on when I started it & my techie says it's s Canbus fault having done an OBD check but whilst I wait for the electrical guru to come out, I'll dusconnect the battery properly and give it a full charge to see if lack of use has contributed to it chucking its dolly out of the pram - even the PAS isn't working!!
Mine's just about to pass 100k miles (bought at about 64k miles) and has currently full MB/Merc specialist history but I'm inclined to go with my local garage now as the specialist I used in the East Midlands seriously teed me off in connection with a rear suspension fault. Anyway apart from an air con switch and a broken wire on the self levelling suspension it had been reliable until today... I had a full dash of warning lights come on when I started it & my techie says it's s Canbus fault having done an OBD check but whilst I wait for the electrical guru to come out, I'll dusconnect the battery properly and give it a full charge to see if lack of use has contributed to it chucking its dolly out of the pram - even the PAS isn't working!!
Quick update on my original post, the dealer is being a bit more difficult now as he was slow to respond to emails that I was sending him.
Managed to call him and he just said that I'm looking for problems and its a 10 year old car, so I have to expect issues like this! I agreed with him that the car is 10 years old but a dealer should have a car mechanically checked and prepared, and in my opinion should be in satisfactory condition but this isn't. This needs ££££ of work to the brakes and I don't think it should have been sold with these defects.
I don't think a car should be sold with brake pipes that are ready to fail & front brake discs that are excessivly worn, the thing that doesn't sit right with me is the MOT he had done which sailed through and had no advisories (it should not have passed IMO)
He eventually agreed to have a mechanic look at it if I returned it to him, so a 2 hour drive and a train ride back home he phoned me and said that his mechanic has said there's no fault with the brake pipes, they are all OK with only slight corossion. I think its clear that pipes are excessively corroded and have even mishapened a little which is frightening.
I asked for a detailed report from his mechanic, but he has not issued this yet and the car is still sat with him, a couple of hours away, he is refusing to replace the brake pipes as he said they have not failed!!!
Anyway, defects with the braking system is where I draw the line, so I told him I'm rejecting the car as I've only had it for 3 weeks so still under the 30 days according to thr CRA 2015 act. He said I can't reject the car as there's no fault but there clearly is and he's just being an idiot now, I've spoken to the finance company and they have confirmed I can reject it and have been given a case handler to help me through it.
Such a shame, as if he had replaced the brake pipes and front discs I would of been OK with it
I'll keep you up to date with how it goes, and it certainally hasn't put me off the CLS, they are a fantastic car in the short time I've had it and will be looking for another one once this has been sorted.
Managed to call him and he just said that I'm looking for problems and its a 10 year old car, so I have to expect issues like this! I agreed with him that the car is 10 years old but a dealer should have a car mechanically checked and prepared, and in my opinion should be in satisfactory condition but this isn't. This needs ££££ of work to the brakes and I don't think it should have been sold with these defects.
I don't think a car should be sold with brake pipes that are ready to fail & front brake discs that are excessivly worn, the thing that doesn't sit right with me is the MOT he had done which sailed through and had no advisories (it should not have passed IMO)
He eventually agreed to have a mechanic look at it if I returned it to him, so a 2 hour drive and a train ride back home he phoned me and said that his mechanic has said there's no fault with the brake pipes, they are all OK with only slight corossion. I think its clear that pipes are excessively corroded and have even mishapened a little which is frightening.
I asked for a detailed report from his mechanic, but he has not issued this yet and the car is still sat with him, a couple of hours away, he is refusing to replace the brake pipes as he said they have not failed!!!
Anyway, defects with the braking system is where I draw the line, so I told him I'm rejecting the car as I've only had it for 3 weeks so still under the 30 days according to thr CRA 2015 act. He said I can't reject the car as there's no fault but there clearly is and he's just being an idiot now, I've spoken to the finance company and they have confirmed I can reject it and have been given a case handler to help me through it.
Such a shame, as if he had replaced the brake pipes and front discs I would of been OK with it
I'll keep you up to date with how it goes, and it certainally hasn't put me off the CLS, they are a fantastic car in the short time I've had it and will be looking for another one once this has been sorted.
Not sure if this is one of the models affected by that
Looking at the photos, and I've been under the car myself I would say they're too far gone in those areas to be serviced with wire brush etc
My gripe is the new MOT with no advisories, on paper this car is mechanically sound but it's really not, to replace them I'm looking at £800 to £1000 (front and back) which I should not be expected to pay after only 3 weeks of owning it
Not covered by the 12month warranty either so dealer is hiding behind the (friendly mot) and the warranty. After sale care is severely lacking
Looking at the photos, and I've been under the car myself I would say they're too far gone in those areas to be serviced with wire brush etc
My gripe is the new MOT with no advisories, on paper this car is mechanically sound but it's really not, to replace them I'm looking at £800 to £1000 (front and back) which I should not be expected to pay after only 3 weeks of owning it
Not covered by the 12month warranty either so dealer is hiding behind the (friendly mot) and the warranty. After sale care is severely lacking
Button_SW said:
Fthe brake lines are shockingly bad, so much so that my mechanic told me to leave gaps and not brake too late as it looks like they're ready to fail!!
just playing devils advacdo - are the brakes really about to fail? are they weeping or spongy? Have you had a 2nd opinion independent of the dealer and Indie you used? From the pics, a clean and wax would potentially remedy and avoid any further corrosion - unless ofcourse they are cracked or leaking?In my experience some indies (especially merc and porsche ones) look for faults that arent really faults which are probably preventative maintenance tasks, and costs escalate when they insist on replacing parts that can be serviced, refurbished, or re-used (nuts bolts grommets washers etc which add up to the costs).
On the flip side the indie I use is proper mechanic and will fix things, only highlights stuff that genuinely needs replaced - usually when there is an actual fault affecting the car in some way, and only calls out may need doing future - i.e not a current fault / prevantive maintenance as a FYI.
Trying to find a really good SB isn’t easy. I looked for ages last year, with the goods ones being snapped up before I could get to see them.
If the rest of the car is in the condition you want, personally I’d grit my teeth, get the car back from the dealer and chalk up as experience.
It’s a car that has potential to throw some hefty bills anyway. I know some dealers get away with sub standard practices on occasions, so this might not sit well with you, but I’d take a look at the rest of the car and decide from there.
If the rest of the car is in the condition you want, personally I’d grit my teeth, get the car back from the dealer and chalk up as experience.
It’s a car that has potential to throw some hefty bills anyway. I know some dealers get away with sub standard practices on occasions, so this might not sit well with you, but I’d take a look at the rest of the car and decide from there.
It's certainly not easy, I looked at 4 before choosing this one, it's full mb history, great spec and low mileage that sold it although this kind of mileage im expecting some hefty maintenance bills during ownership.
I just don't expect the MOT to be clear with brake pipes that need attention and pretty worn brake discs.
It's weeping oil from the top of the engine, the long metal pipe so will need the seal replaced as well as turbo inlet red seal. Stuff like that I'm ok with as I've done research on the om642 and these are things that are going to have to get done at some point, I'm also half expecting to do the oil cooler seals at some point in the next year as there's no record of them being done and it's pretty much guaranteed around this age and mileage.
I might have to get a 2nd opinion but I trust my Merc indy garage alot, I've used them for several years now and I know he won't rip me off or do work for the sake of it.
If he's telling me to leave a gap and not brake too hard I trust him.
It's a real head scratcher, I'm not willing to just chalk it up as "an experience" just yet as I believe the car should be mechanically to a standard when buying from a dealer.
It's the MOT that annoys me the most, and it's why I always insist on getting the dealer to offer it before agreeing to the purchase as even if it's a "friendly" MOT it gives you more rights and power when things like this happen.
I'm waiting for him to provide the health report from his mechanic, which he hasn't been able to do.
I just don't expect the MOT to be clear with brake pipes that need attention and pretty worn brake discs.
It's weeping oil from the top of the engine, the long metal pipe so will need the seal replaced as well as turbo inlet red seal. Stuff like that I'm ok with as I've done research on the om642 and these are things that are going to have to get done at some point, I'm also half expecting to do the oil cooler seals at some point in the next year as there's no record of them being done and it's pretty much guaranteed around this age and mileage.
I might have to get a 2nd opinion but I trust my Merc indy garage alot, I've used them for several years now and I know he won't rip me off or do work for the sake of it.
If he's telling me to leave a gap and not brake too hard I trust him.
It's a real head scratcher, I'm not willing to just chalk it up as "an experience" just yet as I believe the car should be mechanically to a standard when buying from a dealer.
It's the MOT that annoys me the most, and it's why I always insist on getting the dealer to offer it before agreeing to the purchase as even if it's a "friendly" MOT it gives you more rights and power when things like this happen.
I'm waiting for him to provide the health report from his mechanic, which he hasn't been able to do.
I do sympathise. I’ve been there before myself with a mot from a dealer that wasn’t fit for purpose.
My CLS was serviced by the dealer before collection. Only it most certainly wasn’t. Don’t get me wrong, there are some really good dealers out there, but I’m seeing more shysters and dodgy practices in the second hand car market these days, which is making it harder for me to trust the good ones.
My CLS was serviced by the dealer before collection. Only it most certainly wasn’t. Don’t get me wrong, there are some really good dealers out there, but I’m seeing more shysters and dodgy practices in the second hand car market these days, which is making it harder for me to trust the good ones.
My take on this is that the OP has been unfortunate with the dealer's response as the MOT was clearly not a good one & the argument would be that the pipes don't deteriorate like that in 3 weeks of ownership. I checked out the dealer's trustpilot and online reviews to see what they were like before I brought my car as they weren't an MBZ specialist.
I know when the brake pipes were replaced on mine before I bought it that it cost about £250 trade (I saw the invoice) but like all things it depends who does it/how?! It appears that they tend to go before the fittings and if you've a good mechanic they will wire brush them and treat them every year to protect them when they carry out a full inspection.
Mine also had the oil leak between the v in the engine & I decided at the first service I had done on it to get it sorted for peace of mind as I was looking at doing 25k miles a year (this has now dropped significantly in mileage). Mine is now about to cross 100k miles but I suspect my Canbus error message could be a battery fault so I'm out to hopefully prove my mechanic wrong as the car is only used once or twice a week (but does 170 miles on of of its trips).
As the OP says (& I think we all appreciate) they are generally great cars
PS don't get me started on the cost of plugging the STAR computer in to read fault codes....Merc wanted £160 & my specialist £130 - I could tell what was wrong with my car as the suspension had dropped on the back
I know when the brake pipes were replaced on mine before I bought it that it cost about £250 trade (I saw the invoice) but like all things it depends who does it/how?! It appears that they tend to go before the fittings and if you've a good mechanic they will wire brush them and treat them every year to protect them when they carry out a full inspection.
Mine also had the oil leak between the v in the engine & I decided at the first service I had done on it to get it sorted for peace of mind as I was looking at doing 25k miles a year (this has now dropped significantly in mileage). Mine is now about to cross 100k miles but I suspect my Canbus error message could be a battery fault so I'm out to hopefully prove my mechanic wrong as the car is only used once or twice a week (but does 170 miles on of of its trips).
As the OP says (& I think we all appreciate) they are generally great cars
PS don't get me started on the cost of plugging the STAR computer in to read fault codes....Merc wanted £160 & my specialist £130 - I could tell what was wrong with my car as the suspension had dropped on the back
I've already planned for oil cooler seals as I imagine they will be going or soon be needing to get replaced, again peace of mind knowing they have been done
A good dealer is only as good as when things go wrong and how they deal with it, and unfortunately this dealer is acting like you feel a bad one will.. blaming the age of the car and hiding behind a warranty and a dodgy MOT. He must have known full well the next owner (me) would have a big bill immediately with the brake pipes but is more than happy to not deal with it
Lets see what the finance company say on Monday, I haven't even made 1st payment yet and as it's within 30 days I should be able to reject.
MOT is key, because even if a tester maybe passes it, the brake pipes should be a 100,% advisory, and then the whole situation is different as I would have negotiated price knowing they would need doing or maybe not even buy the car!
Perfect solution would be if the dealer offers to replace the pipes and I'll accept that, this is a 2 tonne car with near 300hp and issues with brakes just doesn't sit right with me
I'll keep you posted
Such a shame as these cars are so nice and unique
A good dealer is only as good as when things go wrong and how they deal with it, and unfortunately this dealer is acting like you feel a bad one will.. blaming the age of the car and hiding behind a warranty and a dodgy MOT. He must have known full well the next owner (me) would have a big bill immediately with the brake pipes but is more than happy to not deal with it
Lets see what the finance company say on Monday, I haven't even made 1st payment yet and as it's within 30 days I should be able to reject.
MOT is key, because even if a tester maybe passes it, the brake pipes should be a 100,% advisory, and then the whole situation is different as I would have negotiated price knowing they would need doing or maybe not even buy the car!
Perfect solution would be if the dealer offers to replace the pipes and I'll accept that, this is a 2 tonne car with near 300hp and issues with brakes just doesn't sit right with me
I'll keep you posted
Such a shame as these cars are so nice and unique
Button_SW said:
Not sure if this is one of the models affected by that
Looking at the photos, and I've been under the car myself I would say they're too far gone in those areas to be serviced with wire brush etc
My gripe is the new MOT with no advisories, on paper this car is mechanically sound but it's really not, to replace them I'm looking at £800 to £1000 (front and back) which I should not be expected to pay after only 3 weeks of owning it
Not covered by the 12month warranty either so dealer is hiding behind the (friendly mot) and the warranty. After sale care is severely lacking
Looking at the photos, and I've been under the car myself I would say they're too far gone in those areas to be serviced with wire brush etc
My gripe is the new MOT with no advisories, on paper this car is mechanically sound but it's really not, to replace them I'm looking at £800 to £1000 (front and back) which I should not be expected to pay after only 3 weeks of owning it
Not covered by the 12month warranty either so dealer is hiding behind the (friendly mot) and the warranty. After sale care is severely lacking
I have only glanced through the topic, so apologies if I missed anything.
I would have thought that you should have a very stong case for making the seller pay.
Whoever they are using for MoTs, could face big trouble.
1. Very recent pass MoT, with no advisories.
2. A prompt inspection by MB Indy, reveals parts of the hydraulic braking system are dangerously corroded.
If it were me, I would now take the car to an M-B main dealer, for a brake pipe inspection.
You would then be in possession of two against one evidence, and a main dealer's report might be considered to be of an undisputed standard.
When the seller believes that the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) might 'discover' the facts (perhaps even including a possible 'cosy relationship'), surely the seller would then cooperate with you.
If not, you will have excellent written evidence, so Small Claims Court.
Hope everything is sorted for you.
Ok, it's been a while so thought I'd update with the latest.
I contacted the dealer and informed him that I'm not happy with the brake pipes and the fact that the car passed an MOT provided by him with no advisories. I emailed him the photos that the MB indy garage took and sent him the report. He said that they looked ok to him and that my garage were looking for work so just trying it on, informing me again that the car was 10 years old and I'm looking for problems. He agreed to take the car back and get his mechanic to look at them and sort out if they are faulty.
So a 2.5hr drive up to his garage and handed him the keys. He dropped me back to the station and I hadn't even got off the train near home and he phoned me, informing me that the mechanic has looked at it and there is nothing wrong with them. Not only did I feel he had completely wasted my time bur just couldn't believe that he has the nerve to not only question my trusted MB indy garage but it's just clear at this point he doesn't want to fork out to replace them. I told him that I will reject the car as within 30 days of owning but he said I can't reject it as there's nothing wrong with it.
So, finance company contacted and complaint lodged against the dealer, I also wrote to the dealer formally lodging my desire to reject the car as he is unwilling to replace the brake pipes and I don't want an expensive bill just weeks after purchase. I did receive a rather threatening letter back from the dealer with a lot of legal scare wording, the sort of letter that would most definitely frighten some people to back down.
Then weeks went by where the finance company were trying to organise an independent inspection of the vehicle. After much chasing for around 4 weeks the inspection was done by a company called ACE last week and I received the report today. The report is barley worth the paper it's written on, they sent some nice photos of outside of the car, said how good condition it was in for year and that brake pipes were good! Here's the kicker though, I don't even think they have checked the brake pipes under the subframe where they are most corroded, they only had a trolley jack and have only checked the brake pipes by the wheels, they haven't been fully underneath the car :-(
So l, another email to the finance company ehen though they have closed the complaint now! Jeez I feel like I'm up against a system here, they seem to be all in it together to get a desired result for them.
I'm going to get the car back as I miss it greatly but I'm genuinely concerned that the brake pipes could be dangerous as my indy garage said.
I'm going to then get a brake pipe inspection done at my local MB dealership to get to the bottom of it. If they are found to need replacing I will then put it to the dealer and demand replacement, if he won't replace I will get them done and take him to small claims court to claim back the money.
If they're serviceabie, I will of course move on and be thankful that I haven't got a big bill to pay.
I really miss the car so can't wait to drive it again but this dealer experience has left a real bitter taste in my mouth.
Will update again soon enough but my beautiful CLS is coming home
.....sorry for the long reply ??
I contacted the dealer and informed him that I'm not happy with the brake pipes and the fact that the car passed an MOT provided by him with no advisories. I emailed him the photos that the MB indy garage took and sent him the report. He said that they looked ok to him and that my garage were looking for work so just trying it on, informing me again that the car was 10 years old and I'm looking for problems. He agreed to take the car back and get his mechanic to look at them and sort out if they are faulty.
So a 2.5hr drive up to his garage and handed him the keys. He dropped me back to the station and I hadn't even got off the train near home and he phoned me, informing me that the mechanic has looked at it and there is nothing wrong with them. Not only did I feel he had completely wasted my time bur just couldn't believe that he has the nerve to not only question my trusted MB indy garage but it's just clear at this point he doesn't want to fork out to replace them. I told him that I will reject the car as within 30 days of owning but he said I can't reject it as there's nothing wrong with it.
So, finance company contacted and complaint lodged against the dealer, I also wrote to the dealer formally lodging my desire to reject the car as he is unwilling to replace the brake pipes and I don't want an expensive bill just weeks after purchase. I did receive a rather threatening letter back from the dealer with a lot of legal scare wording, the sort of letter that would most definitely frighten some people to back down.
Then weeks went by where the finance company were trying to organise an independent inspection of the vehicle. After much chasing for around 4 weeks the inspection was done by a company called ACE last week and I received the report today. The report is barley worth the paper it's written on, they sent some nice photos of outside of the car, said how good condition it was in for year and that brake pipes were good! Here's the kicker though, I don't even think they have checked the brake pipes under the subframe where they are most corroded, they only had a trolley jack and have only checked the brake pipes by the wheels, they haven't been fully underneath the car :-(
So l, another email to the finance company ehen though they have closed the complaint now! Jeez I feel like I'm up against a system here, they seem to be all in it together to get a desired result for them.
I'm going to get the car back as I miss it greatly but I'm genuinely concerned that the brake pipes could be dangerous as my indy garage said.
I'm going to then get a brake pipe inspection done at my local MB dealership to get to the bottom of it. If they are found to need replacing I will then put it to the dealer and demand replacement, if he won't replace I will get them done and take him to small claims court to claim back the money.
If they're serviceabie, I will of course move on and be thankful that I haven't got a big bill to pay.
I really miss the car so can't wait to drive it again but this dealer experience has left a real bitter taste in my mouth.
Will update again soon enough but my beautiful CLS is coming home
.....sorry for the long reply ??
Edited by Button_SW on Monday 25th March 22:22
Button_SW said:
Will update again soon enough but my beautiful CLS is coming home
Post some pics (of the none rusty bits of course!)How many miles have you done in it now? I ask because these cars are fairly sound, and not particularly expensive to run for what they are. You may find that after sorting this issue, you’ve nothing more to do for the next couple of years.
I know it’s not the start of ownership you want, but probably time to move on and make the most of the car. I doubt the dealer will entertain anything further.
I’ve ran mine for coming up to twelve months now and aside for fixing some dealer issues at the start, I’ve had 25k miles of hassle free motoring.
My CLS SB had the brake pipes replaced before I bought it at 7 yesterday old!
OP, I'm guessing you've checked the online MOT history to see if there were any early indicators the pipes needed attention? Even though mine were replaced 2.5 yrs ago my MOT person always checks them on the joints and puts some sand paper over them and gives them a spray with a protective coating just to be safe - it seems bonkers that we seem to be replacing brake pipes much earlier in a car's life and yet they extend the service intervals!!
OP, I'm guessing you've checked the online MOT history to see if there were any early indicators the pipes needed attention? Even though mine were replaced 2.5 yrs ago my MOT person always checks them on the joints and puts some sand paper over them and gives them a spray with a protective coating just to be safe - it seems bonkers that we seem to be replacing brake pipes much earlier in a car's life and yet they extend the service intervals!!
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