Mercedes w213 E400d 4M AMG Line suspension too soft
Discussion
Hello everyone,
I recently purchased a 2019 Mercedes E400d 4Matic with the AMG package (the car has the 677 option on it listed as Avantgarde/Standard suspension), the car has the standard suspension that comes with the pack (no air suspension or adjustable dampeners) and I find the powertrain really really good with the 9g tronic gearbox, super responsive and quite fast for a diesel car. The issue is I feel that the suspension doesn't match the capabilities of the powertrain, the car does not feel completely stable in high speed corners like my Audi S7 C7.5 or even old Audi A5 B8, honestly I would not even say that it is not stable it's more like it doesn't inspire confidence, it is a bit of a let down in that respect.
I am looking at aftermarket suspension kits such as KW, Eibach, AP, etc... and I would like to lower the car a bit and switch the shocks and struts, however I would prefer not to make the car rock hard, just a bit more engaging to drive on twisty roads and more stable at high speeds (autobahn cruising speeds). Hope someone has done some upgrades like this on their w213 and could share their experience.
I recently purchased a 2019 Mercedes E400d 4Matic with the AMG package (the car has the 677 option on it listed as Avantgarde/Standard suspension), the car has the standard suspension that comes with the pack (no air suspension or adjustable dampeners) and I find the powertrain really really good with the 9g tronic gearbox, super responsive and quite fast for a diesel car. The issue is I feel that the suspension doesn't match the capabilities of the powertrain, the car does not feel completely stable in high speed corners like my Audi S7 C7.5 or even old Audi A5 B8, honestly I would not even say that it is not stable it's more like it doesn't inspire confidence, it is a bit of a let down in that respect.
I am looking at aftermarket suspension kits such as KW, Eibach, AP, etc... and I would like to lower the car a bit and switch the shocks and struts, however I would prefer not to make the car rock hard, just a bit more engaging to drive on twisty roads and more stable at high speeds (autobahn cruising speeds). Hope someone has done some upgrades like this on their w213 and could share their experience.
I've two thoughts on this:
1. Mercs are known for breaking their springs. Has anyone done a proper check of the condition of the springs and other suspension components, including checking the hidden bottom of the springs where they sit in the suspension arm and where they often break? With tyre pressures as specified, you could try measuring the ride height for each corner and compare left to right which might point to anything that is wrong.
2. If the existing suspension is healthy, I suppose an alternative to using aftermarket would be to replace the springs, dampers and anti-roll bars with Merc sports suspension items. You might even be able to test drive one with sports suspension fitted.
I'd also add that if German exec cars are known for anything, it is high speed stability. I'm in a similar situation - if my Merc doesn't feel comfortable taking motorway sweepers at 70mph, then why can Michael take them at considerably higher speeds in his? https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... There could well be differences in driving skill, but it seems unlikely that there could be that much difference. This leads me to think there may be something wrong with the suspension.
1. Mercs are known for breaking their springs. Has anyone done a proper check of the condition of the springs and other suspension components, including checking the hidden bottom of the springs where they sit in the suspension arm and where they often break? With tyre pressures as specified, you could try measuring the ride height for each corner and compare left to right which might point to anything that is wrong.
2. If the existing suspension is healthy, I suppose an alternative to using aftermarket would be to replace the springs, dampers and anti-roll bars with Merc sports suspension items. You might even be able to test drive one with sports suspension fitted.
I'd also add that if German exec cars are known for anything, it is high speed stability. I'm in a similar situation - if my Merc doesn't feel comfortable taking motorway sweepers at 70mph, then why can Michael take them at considerably higher speeds in his? https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... There could well be differences in driving skill, but it seems unlikely that there could be that much difference. This leads me to think there may be something wrong with the suspension.
Edited by trevalvole on Thursday 2nd March 12:44
Edited by trevalvole on Thursday 2nd March 12:46
[quote=trevalvole]I've two thoughts on this:
First thing I did was have the car tested and checked over and tested on some bad roads, and everything seems fine, shocks are dry and don't knock or make any noise, the springs are also completely fine. The speeds at which it doesn't feel perfectly stable at are north of 120mph in Germany, compared to my old A5 SB 3.0 TDI Quattro that has sport suspension fitted from the factory it feels a bit boat like which is to be expected, it might only be the fact that it doesn't have factory sport suspension with adaptive dampeners and has the avantgarde basic one, which is a bit of a let down on an AMG package car. I am looking at the factory sports suspension option and some lowering springs, since she is riding a bit high for my liking, I will report on what I choose to do on the car how it effects the driving dynamics and ride quality.
First thing I did was have the car tested and checked over and tested on some bad roads, and everything seems fine, shocks are dry and don't knock or make any noise, the springs are also completely fine. The speeds at which it doesn't feel perfectly stable at are north of 120mph in Germany, compared to my old A5 SB 3.0 TDI Quattro that has sport suspension fitted from the factory it feels a bit boat like which is to be expected, it might only be the fact that it doesn't have factory sport suspension with adaptive dampeners and has the avantgarde basic one, which is a bit of a let down on an AMG package car. I am looking at the factory sports suspension option and some lowering springs, since she is riding a bit high for my liking, I will report on what I choose to do on the car how it effects the driving dynamics and ride quality.
Trustmeimadoctor said:
It's funny I have the full air and I think it's too firm but can't help with your isxue
My S7 C7.5 is on air suspension as well and I currently have 19 inch winter wheels on it, as for the W213 I have the 19 inch AMG 5 double spoke wheels on it, and even without air suspension I find it more comfortable and softer than the air suspension on the Audi in comfort mode, if you're on 20 inch wheels it would probably help a lot getting smaller wheels.
I'd start with tyres, tyre pressure, and a geometry check. Often times MB cars leave the factory with mismatched camber adjustments. If you like high speed driving then you can reduce toe at the front (I run close to zero on my road cars) and add more toe in at the rear. This will have the effect of increasing high speed stability - particularly in sweeping bends - but at the expense of steering response. Camber is worth checking, too.
I say to start there because soft suspension wouldn't necessarily make the car feel unstable in high speed corners - mostly it just makes it a little bit more of a process to set the car up for the corner itself as weight transfer is more obvious, but once on-line the car shouldn't be unduly stable.
I say to start there because soft suspension wouldn't necessarily make the car feel unstable in high speed corners - mostly it just makes it a little bit more of a process to set the car up for the corner itself as weight transfer is more obvious, but once on-line the car shouldn't be unduly stable.
Update on the situation: I have looked at lowering springs and found out my local Brabus dealer offers H&R lowering springs however, they told me they have bad results fitting them on 4 Matic models, with the front end not lowering as much as the rear, which surprised me, to be honest. I talked to my Mercedes dealer as well and asked if it is possible to fit factory sport suspension to the car, and to no big surprise they told me it would cost way too much to make it financially worth it at this point, I have 2 options as I see it:
1. Sell the car and possibly upgrade to a similar spec E53 AMG
2. Spend over 3000 Euros on KW V3 Coilovers
Considering the price I paid for the car I would not be losing much or anything on it, and it's not a big leap to upgrade to a 50.000-80.000km used E53 AMG. It might just be the right model for me, the only reason I haven't looked into this before is due to the great fuel consumption the E400d offers with a lot of performance.
1. Sell the car and possibly upgrade to a similar spec E53 AMG
2. Spend over 3000 Euros on KW V3 Coilovers
Considering the price I paid for the car I would not be losing much or anything on it, and it's not a big leap to upgrade to a 50.000-80.000km used E53 AMG. It might just be the right model for me, the only reason I haven't looked into this before is due to the great fuel consumption the E400d offers with a lot of performance.
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