W202 Replacement Dilemma
Discussion
As you can see from the classified section, I think the time has come to replace my wonderful W202 C250TD. There's nothing actually wrong with it and, unusually for me, I haven't grown bored with it. However at the moment I'm racking up 2000 miles a month (even though I only drive the car twice a week) and she isn't getting any younger.
The biggest problem I'm having with this car is what to replace it with. As I've just sold my house, cash isn't an immediate problem. Well not until I realise I need a roof over my head. After having a Mercedes I can't have a normal car, only a Mercedes will do.
As I will need another house at some stage and have a natural reluctance to spend money (less so for cars), my final choices aren't too exotic. I've narrowed it down to either a couple of years old C270 or, in exchange for a smaller house, a new C220 Sport Coupe.
I've tried going through the pros and cons, but not actually managed to achieve an answer, any ideas?
>> Edited by niva441 on Wednesday 10th August 11:38
The biggest problem I'm having with this car is what to replace it with. As I've just sold my house, cash isn't an immediate problem. Well not until I realise I need a roof over my head. After having a Mercedes I can't have a normal car, only a Mercedes will do.
As I will need another house at some stage and have a natural reluctance to spend money (less so for cars), my final choices aren't too exotic. I've narrowed it down to either a couple of years old C270 or, in exchange for a smaller house, a new C220 Sport Coupe.
I've tried going through the pros and cons, but not actually managed to achieve an answer, any ideas?
>> Edited by niva441 on Wednesday 10th August 11:38
Niva,
I recently have purchase a C220 CDI Saloon in Sport Edition Trim. I would certainly recommend you take a test drive in a C220.
My car engine is still quite tight, yet I am easily getting an average of 37 MPG +. The car performs very well (I came out of a BMW M3) and hasnt dissapointed.
I also got an extremely good deal (contact me off the forum if you want to know more)
I recently have purchase a C220 CDI Saloon in Sport Edition Trim. I would certainly recommend you take a test drive in a C220.
My car engine is still quite tight, yet I am easily getting an average of 37 MPG +. The car performs very well (I came out of a BMW M3) and hasnt dissapointed.
I also got an extremely good deal (contact me off the forum if you want to know more)
Some of the guys on mbclub.co.uk were discussing MPG, and I got the impression many were impressed with the 270, but disappointed with the 220.
I would say if you're going to go with the W203 platform and associated running costs of a car that's on a more upmarket platform than an Audi A3 or Golf, then you might as well go for the saloon body with it, rather than restricting yourself to what's really a hatchback but probably no cheaper to run (the Sports Coupe).
I would say if you're going to go with the W203 platform and associated running costs of a car that's on a more upmarket platform than an Audi A3 or Golf, then you might as well go for the saloon body with it, rather than restricting yourself to what's really a hatchback but probably no cheaper to run (the Sports Coupe).
My interest in the Sport Coupe is because I don't really need the size of the saloon, but the flexibility of the hatchback would be useful.
As the 220 is now as powerful as my 250, I don't need the extra power of the 270, but the smoothness would be nice. Also from testing an early C220 I thought the initial response was languid.
The comments on fuel consumption are also on the Mercedesclub forum. Once contributor has also posted a letter from MB, saying they were aware of the problem and are loking into software upgrades. Apparently about 38 is normal for a C220, which is about the same as I'm getting from my C250. I was disappointed when I tested a pre EU4 car a couple of years ago and got 43, when BMW's are getting about 50.
I've got a test drive arranged at the weekend in a C220 so I'll have more impression then.
As the 220 is now as powerful as my 250, I don't need the extra power of the 270, but the smoothness would be nice. Also from testing an early C220 I thought the initial response was languid.
The comments on fuel consumption are also on the Mercedesclub forum. Once contributor has also posted a letter from MB, saying they were aware of the problem and are loking into software upgrades. Apparently about 38 is normal for a C220, which is about the same as I'm getting from my C250. I was disappointed when I tested a pre EU4 car a couple of years ago and got 43, when BMW's are getting about 50.
I've got a test drive arranged at the weekend in a C220 so I'll have more impression then.
A Sport Coupe is a very nice car. I had a C200K version when mine went in for some warranty work.
The only thing that is a little weird is when you look through the rear window or more specifically through the lowest part of tailgate. It is difficult to describe, but I think you will understand what I mean when you take your test drive.
im sure you will enjoy it. If you decide to buy see if you can get a Sport Edition Car.
The only thing that is a little weird is when you look through the rear window or more specifically through the lowest part of tailgate. It is difficult to describe, but I think you will understand what I mean when you take your test drive.
im sure you will enjoy it. If you decide to buy see if you can get a Sport Edition Car.
I've just had a good chat with the Service Manager at MB Swindon. We discussed the dissapointing fuel consumption of my C220 CDI. I apparantly am not alone, a customer with a C200 CDI has made similar comments.
Allegedly it is as a result if the introduction of the EU4 Spec engine with the Diesel Particulate Filter. Mercedes are in the process of fixing the problem for production vehicles and that should be introduced in the next couple of months. At the same time the software should be sent out to dealers as part of the monthly upgrade that they receive.
I have agreed with the dealer that I will see what the consumption is when I reach 4,000 miles (about 1.5 months from now). He is expecting that I should at least gain 1-2 MPG and by which time the upgrade should be available.
Allegedly it is as a result if the introduction of the EU4 Spec engine with the Diesel Particulate Filter. Mercedes are in the process of fixing the problem for production vehicles and that should be introduced in the next couple of months. At the same time the software should be sent out to dealers as part of the monthly upgrade that they receive.
I have agreed with the dealer that I will see what the consumption is when I reach 4,000 miles (about 1.5 months from now). He is expecting that I should at least gain 1-2 MPG and by which time the upgrade should be available.
That is one of things putting me off the 220 option. Due to the particulate filter the car seems to get similar economy to the 5 cylinder, but without it's power.
I'm somewhat sceptical that a software change will overcome a problem due to an extra restriction in the exhaust system.
My local dealer has an early facelifted car (pre EU3) so that could be tempting, apart from it's got leather seats.
I'm somewhat sceptical that a software change will overcome a problem due to an extra restriction in the exhaust system.
My local dealer has an early facelifted car (pre EU3) so that could be tempting, apart from it's got leather seats.
Went to the Merc dealer and tested the Sport Coupe. Overall I was happy with it, much improved over the earlier models, although the engine was a bit rough.
Started talking numbers with the dealer, it seems they weren't interested in doing much of a deal, particularly with regard to my current car. Evidently marque loyalty isn't rated too highly.
So I started looking for alternatives. Checked out the spec of the BMW 1 series. In simple terms it's cheaper, faster and more economical, plus with the fixed servicing deal I won't be fleeced by the dealer.
So, much as I've never been a BMW fan (particularly after working for Rover/Land Rover), I've order a 120d.
The major problem with it will be spending the next couple of years apologising for the badge.
>> Edited by niva441 on Thursday 25th August 13:08
Started talking numbers with the dealer, it seems they weren't interested in doing much of a deal, particularly with regard to my current car. Evidently marque loyalty isn't rated too highly.
So I started looking for alternatives. Checked out the spec of the BMW 1 series. In simple terms it's cheaper, faster and more economical, plus with the fixed servicing deal I won't be fleeced by the dealer.
So, much as I've never been a BMW fan (particularly after working for Rover/Land Rover), I've order a 120d.
The major problem with it will be spending the next couple of years apologising for the badge.
>> Edited by niva441 on Thursday 25th August 13:08
The lack of Sport Coupe replacement didn't greatly concern me, as it's not being replaced directly (as I see it the B class makes it slightly superflous), it's value possibly wouldn't take a big hit when it's killed off.
What version of the 120d did you try? I wanted to try a auto and the only car locally with auto had sport suspension. Not very inpressive, provoked similar thoughts to me as the BMW Mini that, as they'd spent so long designing the suspension, you'd have thought they could have made it ride well, in addition to handling.
Then I tried a standard SE, much better, not perfect (still a bit of low speed ride harshness), but acceptable.
In addition to the cheaper running costs, the clincher was that they offered me private money for my 216k C250TD, the Merc dealer wasn't really interested in any deal.
>> Edited by niva441 on Wednesday 31st August 08:54
What version of the 120d did you try? I wanted to try a auto and the only car locally with auto had sport suspension. Not very inpressive, provoked similar thoughts to me as the BMW Mini that, as they'd spent so long designing the suspension, you'd have thought they could have made it ride well, in addition to handling.
Then I tried a standard SE, much better, not perfect (still a bit of low speed ride harshness), but acceptable.
In addition to the cheaper running costs, the clincher was that they offered me private money for my 216k C250TD, the Merc dealer wasn't really interested in any deal.
>> Edited by niva441 on Wednesday 31st August 08:54
Why are MB dealers generally so poor with customer service - have they no interest at all in customer marque loyalty? MB Swindon need a boot up their corporate backside for losing a customer in the way they did!
I bargained hard for my first SLK and got the deal I wanted. But then I was mis-sold some gap insurance and a service contract by a shiny-suit, so wasted some money as a result. Whereas my former Honda dealer had been vastly superior in every way.
But the SLK 32 AMG was in a seller's market. The dealer was very good and was much better at explaining the financial aspects, correct gap insurance etc. He also gave me 50% off Supaguard and threw in 12 months tax. Or rather 14; the car still had 2 months tax left on it so they're going to send me a cheque for the next 12 months tax just before I have to retax it.
And they gave me a bottle of champagne to celebrate with!
Enjoy your new car - and I hope you won't be too embarrassed to be in a BMW!
I bargained hard for my first SLK and got the deal I wanted. But then I was mis-sold some gap insurance and a service contract by a shiny-suit, so wasted some money as a result. Whereas my former Honda dealer had been vastly superior in every way.
But the SLK 32 AMG was in a seller's market. The dealer was very good and was much better at explaining the financial aspects, correct gap insurance etc. He also gave me 50% off Supaguard and threw in 12 months tax. Or rather 14; the car still had 2 months tax left on it so they're going to send me a cheque for the next 12 months tax just before I have to retax it.
And they gave me a bottle of champagne to celebrate with!
Enjoy your new car - and I hope you won't be too embarrassed to be in a BMW!
niva441 said:
I'm sure in the extensive range of BMW branded accessories, amongst the tee shirts, umbrellas and pens etc, there must be a paper bag with eye holes cut in it.
Someone had to say it! I've had several BMWs but I won't be returning until they stop making ugly cars. Styling that you might, after owning a car a while, be just about able to tolerate doesn't work for me.
What version of the 120d did you try? I wanted to try a auto and the only car locally with auto had sport suspension.
Then I tried a standard SE, much better, not perfect (still a bit of low speed ride harshness), but acceptable.
-----------------------------------------------
The auto was nicest, manual has very short first gear and clutch bite was weird. Drove an SE with normal alloys. Although they are all run flat on the 1 series this was by far the better ride. Sport suspension and lower profiles look great but kill the ride.
Nick - the reason for lack of dealer interest in loyalty is down to the changes. Staff turn over is at an all time high - the sales manager's are replaced every couple of years, so have never seen you before and the all want a quick profit. Worst of all, I'm a shiny suit that stuffs people in to finance and insurance that they probably don't want. Oops.
Well I sincerely hope that MB change their ways if that's the case, Tony! That attitude sucks, as they say!
Regarding the BMW 1 series, there's a 130i M Sport version with a 3 litre 6 cyl coming soon - as this link describes (I have no commercial interest with anything on the site in question, by the way):www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/59616/bmw_130i_m_sport.html
Regarding the BMW 1 series, there's a 130i M Sport version with a 3 litre 6 cyl coming soon - as this link describes (I have no commercial interest with anything on the site in question, by the way):www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/59616/bmw_130i_m_sport.html
I got a another call from the MB garage yesterday. They already knew from their salesman that I ordered the 120, but were interested in a bit more background why I decided against MB.
So perhaps there is some hope for a change in attitude.
If they'd had offered an equivalent deal I may even have been tempted (plus paying deposit on the BMW).
So perhaps there is some hope for a change in attitude.
If they'd had offered an equivalent deal I may even have been tempted (plus paying deposit on the BMW).
Well, if the salesman who lost your custom decides to try again and offers you the deal you wanted, people might begin to believe that MB dealers actually have some interest in customer service again......
My experience of MB main dealers (apart from with the very nice folk in Redhill) has not been terribly impressive.
Some comparisons:
I took my 7 year old Honda Prelude VTEC to a Honda main dealer for its last major service. The staff treated me as though I'd just bought a brand new car. Offered a coffee when I took the loan car back later, my car was returned gleaming inside and out and with a comprehensive service document.
I took my 1 year old SLK 320 to the MB main dealer from whom I'd bought it for a '1 spanner' service. I was kept hanging around whilst they tried to "find me in the system"? The loan car was nice, but no-one bothered to explain the controls or even how the key worked... When I went to collect my car I wasn't offered a seat, let alone a coffee. The car hadn't been cleaned at all - and the 'service document' was a tatty piece of paper with a few boxes ticked.
I needed my Prelude's scraped bonnet (a steel band thrown up by a truck in front had gouged it!) repainting. The dealer took care of everything and I had the use of a loan car for a couple of days.
I needed a scraped rear bumper repainted on my SLK 320 (at least the woman who'd done it had the courtesy toleave her name and address). I went to the local MB main dealer who didn't show the slightest interest, merely stating that "We don't do bodywork". I was given a phone number and had to find the 'Approved MB specialist' on a tatty industrial estate miles away. Who, it must be said, did a cracking job and was infinitely more courteous than the slob I'd dealt with at the local MB dealership. That one experience now means that they will NEVER sell me a car - I'll go elsewhere.
The overall impression I now have is that, whereas I could contact the Honda dealership at any time and they'd bend over backwards to help me, MB dealerships (with the exception of the one in Redhill which was brilliant) just don't give a s**t. They're purely interested in pushing tin and don't have the slightest interest in their customer service. Honda even used to send their customers Christmas cards!
It's about time there was a BIG shake-up at MB and their dealership staff were re-educated about the niceties expected by buyers of high-quality vehicles.
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Thursday 1st September 08:54
My experience of MB main dealers (apart from with the very nice folk in Redhill) has not been terribly impressive.
Some comparisons:
I took my 7 year old Honda Prelude VTEC to a Honda main dealer for its last major service. The staff treated me as though I'd just bought a brand new car. Offered a coffee when I took the loan car back later, my car was returned gleaming inside and out and with a comprehensive service document.
I took my 1 year old SLK 320 to the MB main dealer from whom I'd bought it for a '1 spanner' service. I was kept hanging around whilst they tried to "find me in the system"? The loan car was nice, but no-one bothered to explain the controls or even how the key worked... When I went to collect my car I wasn't offered a seat, let alone a coffee. The car hadn't been cleaned at all - and the 'service document' was a tatty piece of paper with a few boxes ticked.
I needed my Prelude's scraped bonnet (a steel band thrown up by a truck in front had gouged it!) repainting. The dealer took care of everything and I had the use of a loan car for a couple of days.
I needed a scraped rear bumper repainted on my SLK 320 (at least the woman who'd done it had the courtesy toleave her name and address). I went to the local MB main dealer who didn't show the slightest interest, merely stating that "We don't do bodywork". I was given a phone number and had to find the 'Approved MB specialist' on a tatty industrial estate miles away. Who, it must be said, did a cracking job and was infinitely more courteous than the slob I'd dealt with at the local MB dealership. That one experience now means that they will NEVER sell me a car - I'll go elsewhere.
The overall impression I now have is that, whereas I could contact the Honda dealership at any time and they'd bend over backwards to help me, MB dealerships (with the exception of the one in Redhill which was brilliant) just don't give a s**t. They're purely interested in pushing tin and don't have the slightest interest in their customer service. Honda even used to send their customers Christmas cards!
It's about time there was a BIG shake-up at MB and their dealership staff were re-educated about the niceties expected by buyers of high-quality vehicles.
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Thursday 1st September 08:54
I'd be interested to see what you guys think re W202 vs W203 'quality feel'. I have a W202 Touring and my worry is what to replace it with in the quality stakes... I have driven a W203 C180 kompressor and a w203 C220CDi sport coupe and they felt a bit plasticky and insubstantial compared to my barge!
Have I got rosetinted specs from the golden age of granite MB build quality - or are the W203s actually better quality deep down?
My ideal replacement would be a C43 W202 estate or even a LHD C55 W202 estate, as only the S class has impressed me in the current line up (saloon wise, not familiar with SL etc.).
Cheers
Domster
Have I got rosetinted specs from the golden age of granite MB build quality - or are the W203s actually better quality deep down?
My ideal replacement would be a C43 W202 estate or even a LHD C55 W202 estate, as only the S class has impressed me in the current line up (saloon wise, not familiar with SL etc.).
Cheers
Domster
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