Considering W204 C63: Standard, PPP, or 507?
Discussion
I'm a bit of a dilemma at the moment, I am putting my E46 M3 on sale soon and I am considering getting into a C63 W204. At the moment, I am torn between the standard one, a PPP one and a 507. I want this next car to have a potential for growth in value, it won't be a complete garage queen, but will only be doing around 5k a year only in nice weather, and extremely pampered as a weekend/fun car. It must be a facelift, and must be a coupe. I intend to keep this for several years at least, so value appreciation must be considered. It must be an excellent example in immaculate or close to immaculate condition. Must be stock form also to keep the potential for appreciation.
I know this is a decision that only I can make and I have done extensive research into it so far, but any opinions from you guys would be welcome. This is how I see it at the moment:
Standard:
- Cars advertised between £25-30k. (Excellent value)
- Low mileages can be considered, as low as 30k miles for this budget.
- Plenty to choose from.
- I haven't driven one of these yet, benchmark is currently 507 which I loved so this can't feel inferior.
PPP:
- Start at £30k for mileages around 40-50k.
- Seems to be a very rare option (potential for more appreciation maybe in future).
- Some good options here, I like the idea of red brake calipers, and better engine internals, and the extra power.
- I haven't driven one yet.
507:
- I have driven one.
- Huge premium compared to the previous models, lower mileages start from £40-45k. That's potentially £20k more than a standard C63. This is a lot.
- Arguably the best C63 (aside from Black Series).
- Unparalleled exclusivity due to rarity (about 1 in 8 currently on market), and potential for appreciation.
- Love everything about it, except the extra premium.
- I completely agree it was a marketing exercise and the least value for money in terms of car (taking aside exclusivity).
Budget wise, I can make each of them work. Priorities are:
1. Potential for appreciation
2. Value for money
3. I have driven a 507 and I use that as a benchmark, the experience can't be any less than this (considering standard C63's, as the PPP is pretty much the same in terms of performance). I will be driving it also so performance is a must, and I am already benchmarked towards a 507.
Any opinions and thoughts would be most welcome
I know this is a decision that only I can make and I have done extensive research into it so far, but any opinions from you guys would be welcome. This is how I see it at the moment:
Standard:
- Cars advertised between £25-30k. (Excellent value)
- Low mileages can be considered, as low as 30k miles for this budget.
- Plenty to choose from.
- I haven't driven one of these yet, benchmark is currently 507 which I loved so this can't feel inferior.
PPP:
- Start at £30k for mileages around 40-50k.
- Seems to be a very rare option (potential for more appreciation maybe in future).
- Some good options here, I like the idea of red brake calipers, and better engine internals, and the extra power.
- I haven't driven one yet.
507:
- I have driven one.
- Huge premium compared to the previous models, lower mileages start from £40-45k. That's potentially £20k more than a standard C63. This is a lot.
- Arguably the best C63 (aside from Black Series).
- Unparalleled exclusivity due to rarity (about 1 in 8 currently on market), and potential for appreciation.
- Love everything about it, except the extra premium.
- I completely agree it was a marketing exercise and the least value for money in terms of car (taking aside exclusivity).
Budget wise, I can make each of them work. Priorities are:
1. Potential for appreciation
2. Value for money
3. I have driven a 507 and I use that as a benchmark, the experience can't be any less than this (considering standard C63's, as the PPP is pretty much the same in terms of performance). I will be driving it also so performance is a must, and I am already benchmarked towards a 507.
Any opinions and thoughts would be most welcome
5k per year mileage is hardly a garage queen and will impact on value if you are looking for it to appreciate. If you want a 507, buy one and enjoy it. It terms of performance, standard models can be modified to achieve higher power level.
When I bought mine, I knew I wanted to drive it so upped for a high spec standard coupe and I still have no regrets. Well, except I’m now thinking of the E63.
When I bought mine, I knew I wanted to drive it so upped for a high spec standard coupe and I still have no regrets. Well, except I’m now thinking of the E63.
I think you have missed the boat to a degree if appreciation is your goal, certainly over the next 5 years or so IMHO.
This time last year, you could find a good low mileage 507 for under 30k, or not far off it. Today some are being advertised for 45k+.
Good low mileage PPP's and standard coupes, could be had for 20k, now its 25 to 30k.
There's very little difference in values for a standard car and a PPP. Its really down to mileage and condition. This may change in the long term, but at the moment, the expensive brakes of the PPP (Same calipers, just different disks), and relatively small performance gain, don't carry much weight, when a 500 quid remap gives you far more power.
This increase in value might continue, but I cant see it continuing for long. We're in a bubble and it will be due a correction fairly soon.
I have a standard low mileage PFL which I've owned for coming up 4 years, and yes, I have checked WBAC valuations and sometimes think about cashing in, (The WBAC value has went up around 6k in 6 months) but here's the rub. They are awesome cars, i have no idea what i'd replace it with.
If you want one, buy one, i don't think you'd regret it. Just don't buy one expecting to make money out of it.
Again this is all IMHO
This time last year, you could find a good low mileage 507 for under 30k, or not far off it. Today some are being advertised for 45k+.
Good low mileage PPP's and standard coupes, could be had for 20k, now its 25 to 30k.
There's very little difference in values for a standard car and a PPP. Its really down to mileage and condition. This may change in the long term, but at the moment, the expensive brakes of the PPP (Same calipers, just different disks), and relatively small performance gain, don't carry much weight, when a 500 quid remap gives you far more power.
This increase in value might continue, but I cant see it continuing for long. We're in a bubble and it will be due a correction fairly soon.
I have a standard low mileage PFL which I've owned for coming up 4 years, and yes, I have checked WBAC valuations and sometimes think about cashing in, (The WBAC value has went up around 6k in 6 months) but here's the rub. They are awesome cars, i have no idea what i'd replace it with.
If you want one, buy one, i don't think you'd regret it. Just don't buy one expecting to make money out of it.
Again this is all IMHO
A car like this is a depreciating asset. You would be buying at the top of the market at the moment and have missed that opportunity unless you are prepared to keep it a long time.
I have a W204 PPP and don’t intend to sell it in this silly market only because I would trade up to a Porsche and the prices on those are just stupid at the moment.
Yes, the PP, PPP and 507 models will attract a premium but buy one because you are either a speculating collector or just get one because they are great cars.
I have a W204 PPP and don’t intend to sell it in this silly market only because I would trade up to a Porsche and the prices on those are just stupid at the moment.
Yes, the PP, PPP and 507 models will attract a premium but buy one because you are either a speculating collector or just get one because they are great cars.
I can't comment on any version other than the standard C63 Coupe as that's what I have (a 2014 model) and it's the only one I've driven, but I do use mine as a daily driver (around 1,000+ miles per month) and I personally wouldn't look for a higher performance version for daily driving.
Normal driving for me (which I admit involves heavy throttle whenever the opportunity rises!) returns around 14mpg (18mpg if you're gentle, low 20s a long motorway trip) and somewhere between 3,000 - 5,000 miles per set of 4 tyres unless you're gentle.
Even if the cost of fuel/tyres doesn't bother you, it's definitely inconvenient as a daily driver to need fuel and tyres so often. I assume a higher performance version would be even worse in these aspects.
The main reason I wouldn't want more power is that if you want to stay within legal speeds, you don't get enough opportunity to enjoy the amazing sound of wide open throttle. It feels and sounds great - but it's all over so quickly!
I have no idea about appreciation. I did buy mine quite recently and it's already showing slightly more on WBAC than I paid at a dealer, but personally I would just be happy if it didn't depreciate too fast. I imagine any money saved in depreciation will still not be enough to cover if/when something major goes wrong (not to mention just the day-to-day costs), so I really can't imagine looking at this car as a way to make money.
Normal driving for me (which I admit involves heavy throttle whenever the opportunity rises!) returns around 14mpg (18mpg if you're gentle, low 20s a long motorway trip) and somewhere between 3,000 - 5,000 miles per set of 4 tyres unless you're gentle.
Even if the cost of fuel/tyres doesn't bother you, it's definitely inconvenient as a daily driver to need fuel and tyres so often. I assume a higher performance version would be even worse in these aspects.
The main reason I wouldn't want more power is that if you want to stay within legal speeds, you don't get enough opportunity to enjoy the amazing sound of wide open throttle. It feels and sounds great - but it's all over so quickly!
I have no idea about appreciation. I did buy mine quite recently and it's already showing slightly more on WBAC than I paid at a dealer, but personally I would just be happy if it didn't depreciate too fast. I imagine any money saved in depreciation will still not be enough to cover if/when something major goes wrong (not to mention just the day-to-day costs), so I really can't imagine looking at this car as a way to make money.
The market now is at its peak. You're paying top money for whatever you buy so I can't see how they'll appreciate much more. Plateau, yes, appreciate, hmm.
I had a PPP (estate) and liked the theatre of the alcantara steering wheel and I liked the red calipers as a cosmetic touch but both are easily replicated and have been on numerous cars out there. Would I have preferred a 507? Of course, but the premium wasn't worth it in my opinion for a different map and some bonnet vents. I thought the PPP was a happy medium.
Finding an unmolested coupe that hasn't been bounced off the limiter through the local town centre might be the hardest part of your search.
I had a PPP (estate) and liked the theatre of the alcantara steering wheel and I liked the red calipers as a cosmetic touch but both are easily replicated and have been on numerous cars out there. Would I have preferred a 507? Of course, but the premium wasn't worth it in my opinion for a different map and some bonnet vents. I thought the PPP was a happy medium.
Finding an unmolested coupe that hasn't been bounced off the limiter through the local town centre might be the hardest part of your search.
Thoroughly enjoying it. It's a completely different car to my E46 M3, and it's all about understanding it's strengths and weaknesses vs the M3.
In the end I didn't get neither a 507 or a PPP, I ended up with the base model which has previously had a remap and wavetrac LSD fitted from MSL, and by going base model I was able to use the budget saving on getting one that is genuinely mint condition, with very low miles (18k).
In the end I didn't get neither a 507 or a PPP, I ended up with the base model which has previously had a remap and wavetrac LSD fitted from MSL, and by going base model I was able to use the budget saving on getting one that is genuinely mint condition, with very low miles (18k).
carbonblack said:
Was your E46 SMG or manual? Do you have any thoughts on head to head between your 46 and the 63?
What do you make of the W204 gearbox in comparison? Some say they are a tad sluggish but the V8 keeps tempting me.
Mine was an SMG, and loved it. It was much more theatrical, and eventful when shifting with it, because the downshift rev matching induction noise was glorious and it felt extremely rewarding when you nail a perfect upshift by letting off the throttle. The MCT is very refined and faster but less dramatic, apart from the exhaust cracks you get in S+ mode.What do you make of the W204 gearbox in comparison? Some say they are a tad sluggish but the V8 keeps tempting me.
The C63 is a monster in straight line and moderate cornering, but it's evident it's not as nearly as nicely balanced as my M3 was.
The C63 is quite scary around corners, whereas the M3 was a joy around them and the nose will turn in as much as you want it to. When I was trying to take a familiar corner at the same speed as I would in my M3 in the C63, I nearly understeered into the kerb.
Completely different cars, but the overall balance really stands out in the E46. Such an awesome chassis overall.
That said I do love the strengths of the C63 too, exhaust noise and V8 torque is great.
or see to find a nice DR520 they are rare though, but not many know those... so you can get lucky I guess.
said:
There subsequently came a few special editions too – the DR520, the Black Series, and the Edition 507. The DR520 was a UK-only variant that cost a full £9995 more than the regular C63 AMG; for the substantial extra outlay, buyers got 520hp (hence the name) and a speed limiter further raised to 187mph – only 20 of these cars were built, so they’re very much sought-after today. The Black Series arrived in 2011 and was a seriously hardcore offering. It borrowed some choice engine componentry from the bigger-brother SLS supercar, increasing power to 517hp, and this was allied to aggressively wider arches, and the option of the AMG Track Pack which offered a transmission cooling system and soft-compound tyres as well as the AMG Aerodynamics Pack. Finally came the Edition 507, which was a kind of greatest-hits of the formula; it had a 507hp engine, bigger front brakes, and the Black Series bonnet.
like say this one, but sold, for just under 30k so if you were at the right time, you could get lucky.
https://www.seymourpope.com/vehicle-details/Merced...
https://www.seymourpope.com/vehicle-details/Merced...
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