C63 Estate - Buying advice please!

[Alextodrive]

My head is saying probably not my best idea.
My heart is saying yes, greatest idea ive ever had.

I'm looking to buy a house next year. I have a bunch of deposit money I can use and by the time I have enough cash to buy again, I suspect owning a V8 will come hand in hand with very expensive ownership costs. Feels like a bit of a now or never moment and I'm desperate to own a V8 at least once in my life.

I have a budget of about £35k - 40k. I'm after a C63 estate (I carry a lot of work stuff, so the convertible would need to have a trailer). It looks like that gives me a budget for pre-facelift 2015 - 2017 depending on mileage.

I've only ever owned BMW or Audis. So I dont have a clue what the names of any optional extras / packs are.

I definitely want the performance exhausts. Do these come as part of a pack I should look out for?

Are there any upgrade packs that are particularly desirable?

Some seem to have normal seats and some have bucket seats. Any thoughts on each?

I've never been bothered by mileage up to about 80k. But I'm wondering if on a car like this, that might be a mistake if its in the 50-80 zone and I should look to keep it lower. Are there any major service costs at certain mileages? Anything to watch out for?

Ceramic brakes - I dont think for my price range they're likely to appear and I have no desire for them. If they are on a car I see are replacement costs extortionate?

Warranty - Merc seem to want about £2500 a year if you take out a warranty through them. I realise approved pre-owned mercs come with 1-2 year warranty but I'm likely not to buy through Merc and it seems like I can get a warranty that covers up to £8 of repairs for about £300 once the usual dealer 6 month warranty is up. Or the full value of the car for about £1000 through RAC. Anyone purchased warranties and have any advice?

For when I do look to sell a year down the line. Anyone here sold a 35k car privately? My highest has been 25k and that was fine. But I suspect 35k might be a slightly different ball game. I'm reluctant to sell to dealers for a huge loss if it can be helped.

And if theres anything I've missed... let me know!

Thanks.

Edited by Alextodrive on Sunday 4th July 16:50

[samoht]

Alextodrive said:

My head is saying probably not my best idea.
My heart is saying yes, greatest idea ive ever had.

I'm looking to buy a house next year. I have a bunch of deposit money I can use ... I'm desperate to own a V8 at least once in my life.

I'd just point out the obvious, that a £40k five year old car will be worth a fair bit less when you sell it privately in a year or two's time. There's also the fact that used car prices have risen recently, so there's an extra risk of prices generally falling back by the time you sell.

Given that, I'd think it would be worth considering the option of spending £20-25k on a previous generation W204 C63. As an older car, it's probably nearing its depreciation floor, and has potential to pick up as the last naturally aspirated V8. So financially you're probably talking about losing a smaller percentage of a smaller sum of money. Additionally, it's perhaps a price range where it's easier to both buy and sell privately, avoiding losing dealer margins. And if the goal of the exercise is to own a V8, I'd imagine a 6.2L example unmuffled by turbochargers would give you more of the "V8" experience than the new 4.0T model.

Now, PH traditions notwithstanding, it's not for me to tell random strangers what to do with their money, and there are various ways the new model's a better car. Just seems worth considering an option which is both financially more conservative and potentially gives you more of what you want. Certainly when I was in your position I was looking at things like old NSXs and GT3s that looked to be nearer the bottom of their depreciation curves.


On warranties, there was a PHer who took out a third-party warranty on an E60 M5 and had a huge battle to get them to pay out when his engine failed. Based on this and other things I've heard, I'd only really recommend a third-party warranty to a retired solicitor who's got time and energy and who will enjoy a good legal battle. For everyone else, either go official or don't bother, and put money in an emergency repairs pot instead.

Edited by samoht on Sunday 4th July 22:23

[Fat hippo]

I have a 2015 c63 saloon. Absolutely love it and recommend it to others.

But, no way would I use a house deposit on it. Keep your house deposit for your house. With the current chip shortage keeping used values bouyant, who knows what will happen next year. FWIW I bought mine 2 1/2 years ago from a main dealer and the current wbac value is 4k less than I paid so potentially it is keeping its value well, however I still wouldn’t risk it.

Personally I would wait until you have bought the house and once that’s all done, if you still want one then search for one or maybe a cheaper v8. But definitely wouldn’t use house deposit on it.

Eta im paying about 130ish a month on the MB rolling extended warranty.

Have the normal seats as its is a basic spec and find these comfortable and suitable for me as it is a family car for me with 2 young children. The 19” wheels dont really like British roads. I may eventually get some 18s.

Edited by Fat hippo on Sunday 4th July 22:27

[Don1]

As a 2012 W204 estate owner.... Don't spend your house deposit on a car. Even if I think they are going to start rising in value. Or the fact its £600/year car tax.

But if you can get one, they are brilliant.

[Alextodrive]

samoht said:

I'd just point out the obvious, that a £40k five year old car will be worth a fair bit less when you sell it privately in a year or two's time. There's also the fact that used car prices have risen recently, so there's an extra risk of prices generally falling back by the time you sell.

Given that, I'd think it would be worth considering the option of spending £20-25k on a previous generation W204 C63. As an older car, it's probably nearing its depreciation floor, and has potential to pick up as the last naturally aspirated V8. So financially you're probably talking about losing a smaller percentage of a smaller sum of money. Additionally, it's perhaps a price range where it's easier to both buy and sell privately, avoiding losing dealer margins. And if the goal of the exercise is to own a V8, I'd imagine a 6.2L example unmuffled by turbochargers would give you more of the "V8" experience than the new 4.0T model.

Now, PH traditions notwithstanding, it's not for me to tell random strangers what to do with their money, and there are various ways the new model's a better car. Just seems worth considering an option which is both financially more conservative and potentially gives you more of what you want. Certainly when I was in your position I was looking at things like old NSXs and GT3s that looked to be nearer the bottom of their depreciation curves.


On warranties, there was a PHer who took out a third-party warranty on an E60 M5 and had a huge battle to get them to pay out when his engine failed. Based on this and other things I've heard, I'd only really recommend a third-party warranty to a retired solicitor who's got time and energy and who will enjoy a good legal battle. For everyone else, either go official or don't bother, and put money in an emergency repairs pot instead.

Edited by samoht on Sunday 4th July 22:23

Hmmmmm.... as per Don1 as well. Maybe I'm missing a trick not looking at an older C63 estate instead. 20K car is definitely more sensible. I have 23k in cars at the moment as it is anyway. Just a bit bored of my 330D... Had it a year and a half now. Time for a change.

And with used prices the way they are, I dont particularly fancy being 35-40k in on cars at the moment. I'd hope you wouldn't see a big crash but 35k could easily be 27-28k in a years time. Whereas 20k I'd hope has already done most of it's major depreciating and might only lose 2-3k.

[Alextodrive]

Fat hippo said:

I have a 2015 c63 saloon. Absolutely love it and recommend it to others.

But, no way would I use a house deposit on it. Keep your house deposit for your house. With the current chip shortage keeping used values bouyant, who knows what will happen next year. FWIW I bought mine 2 1/2 years ago from a main dealer and the current wbac value is 4k less than I paid so potentially it is keeping its value well, however I still wouldn’t risk it.

Personally I would wait until you have bought the house and once that’s all done, if you still want one then search for one or maybe a cheaper v8. But definitely wouldn’t use house deposit on it.

Eta im paying about 130ish a month on the MB rolling extended warranty.

Have the normal seats as its is a basic spec and find these comfortable and suitable for me as it is a family car for me with 2 young children. The 19” wheels dont really like British roads. I may eventually get some 18s.

Edited by Fat hippo on Sunday 4th July 22:27

WBAC value is only 4k lower after 2.5 years has blown my mind. That is absolutely bonkers. A well timed buy! Very jealous, as per my last post I'm going to explore the older C63 as I think they make some very fair points... as do you with my deposit haha. I just want a 4 litre twin turbo AMG merc very badly....

[samoht]

Also presumably your 330D will also depreciate over the next 12mo to some extent compared to what it would sell for today, so the net cost of a C63 instead isn't the full 2-3k.

There's a PH buyers guide and discussion thread on the W204 full of owners thoughts here, if you've not seen it https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Alextodrive said:

I just want a 4 litre twin turbo AMG merc very badly....

They made tonnes of them in all sorts of Mercs, they're still making them today, they'll carry on depreciating for another 5-10 years most likely. So while making predictions is hard, especially about the future, personally I wouldn't stress about missing out, I reckon you'll have another chance later this decade if you don't go that way right now.

[Fat hippo]

Alextodrive said:

Fat hippo said:

I have a 2015 c63 saloon. Absolutely love it and recommend it to others.

But, no way would I use a house deposit on it. Keep your house deposit for your house. With the current chip shortage keeping used values bouyant, who knows what will happen next year. FWIW I bought mine 2 1/2 years ago from a main dealer and the current wbac value is 4k less than I paid so potentially it is keeping its value well, however I still wouldn’t risk it.

Personally I would wait until you have bought the house and once that’s all done, if you still want one then search for one or maybe a cheaper v8. But definitely wouldn’t use house deposit on it.

Eta im paying about 130ish a month on the MB rolling extended warranty.

Have the normal seats as its is a basic spec and find these comfortable and suitable for me as it is a family car for me with 2 young children. The 19” wheels dont really like British roads. I may eventually get some 18s.

Edited by Fat hippo on Sunday 4th July 22:27

WBAC value is only 4k lower after 2.5 years has blown my mind. That is absolutely bonkers. A well timed buy! Very jealous, as per my last post I'm going to explore the older C63 as I think they make some very fair points... as do you with my deposit haha. I just want a 4 litre twin turbo AMG merc very badly....

Just to be clear, mine is the w205 4.0 model. Its not an s though and the only. Options it had were paint, black pack and 19” wheels. Bought it at 3 years old with 12k on it for 34 from MB in Poole. It was by far the cheapest in the country. Mileage is only 18k now so that is helping the residual.

[Alextodrive]

Fat hippo said:

Just to be clear, mine is the w205 4.0 model. Its not an s though and the only. Options it had were paint, black pack and 19” wheels. Bought it at 3 years old with 12k on it for 34 from MB in Poole. It was by far the cheapest in the country. Mileage is only 18k now so that is helping the residual.

Sounds like a cracking buy. Great value for money for the minimal depreciation you've had.

So I think I'm fairly set in what I'd like to do after these comments, reading as few articles and giving it some more thought.

I'm fairly set on a W204. Its a much more sensible option at 15-20k ish. It seems like the post facelift 2011 version has some worthwhile improvements.

I'll see less depreciation and while running costs are high, they're more easily calculate-able and liveable with. I'd love to own an NA V8 just once and now seems like the best time to do it with fuel prices and general costs only likely to continue to rise in the years to come.

The W205 in a post facelift 2018-2020 version is something I can wait 3-4 years for once the house is done, I have money saved again and I have a longer commute I'd like to enjoy.

Now the trouble is going to be finding a W204 at a decent price. I've always bought privately and would like to again but can only see a few in the entire country!

[Terzo123]

There's a good article in this months Evo about a pre facelift C63 estate. Issue number 288.

[L500]

Now you're looking at the W204 I can add a bit here. I was set on owning a C63 W204 after selling my 996. It's just a car I've always wanted to own. I purchased without seeing my 2014 estate (Covid) in March this year. Yes it was a risk, but as you say there are few up for sale at the moment. It was a reputable dealership, and they showed me the car by video, twice, and took me tthrough it's history. Mine had 36k on the clock so I thought that was pretty decent and took the plunge. I had it serviced by Mercedes straight away and they gave me the thumbs up which was a relief, but also told me that the M156 engine is pretty solid.

As others had said, it can be a costly car to run. Fuel stops are often, and tax is max! However, it's been a fantastic first few months of ownership and I'm only really starting to get to know it, with 2k now driven.

I would certainly recommend one. The dog loves it too.

[Alextodrive]

Terzo123 said:

There's a good article in this months Evo about a pre facelift C63 estate. Issue number 288.

I'll go pick up a copy. And thanks also for the info L500.

Had you been made aware of any things to look out for in your prep for buying one?

Any anticipated servicing intervals - at 36k timing chain / cambelt I would assume isnt much of an issue. Any parts that wear out with time / mileage I should be aware of?

[Terzo123]

Copied from the C63 UK facegroup page

Common issues:

1. Noisy lifters - ticking noises on 1st cold start of day, usually last 5-10mins. Usually indicative of low oil level. Wear & tear item & part due to design. Changing them does not necessarily guarantee no noise. Certain oil brand like Liqui Moly helps.

2. Camshaft adjuster - metallic rattle for 5-10secs cold or warm start. Again, its a wear & tear item. Will require changing once it gets worse.
Genuine MB part is costly.

Other options are from @63everything on Insta

https://www.63motorsports.com/m156-shop/amg-camsha...

3. Rocker cover crack / gasket leak. Best to change whole cover as it comes with gasket as part of set. Usual cracks will not be visible until heated up.

4. OEM Multispoke wheels are soft & prone to cracks

5. Transmission can breakdown if regular burnouts. Steering pump at risk with multiple donuts too.

6. Rear subframe rust if car has not been maintained well. The rust issue is now more common, especially in pre facelift ones 9-10yrs car. The rust happens inside out.

7. Headbolt issue - Prefacelift cars. Check if engine number ending 60 060658 and above for reassurance.

Headbolt issues are more common in US, as per online findings. Less common in UK.

8. Injectors will need checking during major service as they can get stucked open, causing hydrolock. (Some correlation with mapped cars but random)

❗️Advisable to change whole set of injectors now as cars are 7-8yrs and injectors gets clogged and do fail. ❗️

9. Paint issue - Fire Opal Red is known to have micro blisters - MB aware and will need strip down to bare metal and repaint

10. Crankcase ‘Upper Sump’ oil leak - due to factory sealant perishing with time. This has become more of an issue of late. Different degree of leak with different cars. Some gets worse, some just remains oil damp around the lower case. Can be monitored and remain the same for years or it can worsened. No set pattern. Major job as its engine out job.

‘Mid sump’ oil leak is less costly, only require transmission out.

‘Lower sump’ is the easiest fix.

11. Brake lines prone to corrosion. Usually done together with corroded rear subframe.

12. Idler pulleys and aux belt should be checked at alternate service intervals. The belt may fray and pulleys degrade and give way without warning.

Fuel consumption:
Fuel Average 15-17mpg combined
Town driving can go as low as 13-14
Asbo mode down to 9-12mpg
Granny mode doesn’t exist as the exhaust sound is too addictive and theatric.

Maintanence:
1. Tyres - depends on how heavy your right foot is, rear tyres can last between 3k miles to 8.5k miles.

2. Servicing is fairly decent. Not anymore than other marque.

[Don1]

I did see 28mpg on the M4 on Monday. 50mph for miles...

[Alextodrive]

Don1 said:

I did see 28mpg on the M4 on Monday. 50mph for miles...

That sounds incredibly wasteful of you. 28mpg with zero fun is terrible value for money. 6mpg with immense fun on the other hand.... bargain!

Thanks Terzo123 for the above. Much appreciated.

[Don1]

Agreed. Roadworks.

[Alextodrive]

Don1 said:

Agreed. Roadworks.

I figured as much. Still 28mpg in roadworks has given me a better understanding of how often i'll be filling up then

My two main concerns now are:

1. finding the right car
2. how upset my neighbours will be with the exhausts, in my quiet residential road that echoes with any noise. do they have a silence mode?

[Terzo123]

Cold starts will be fun

[Don1]

Cold starts are the noisiest. But TVRs etc are far worse.

[sanguinary]

Alextodrive said:

Don1 said:

Agreed. Roadworks.

I figured as much. Still 28mpg in roadworks has given me a better understanding of how often i'll be filling up then

My two main concerns now are:

1. finding the right car
2. how upset my neighbours will be with the exhausts, in my quiet residential road that echoes with any noise. do they have a silence mode?

Mine has a silent mode. It makes no noise at all when on the driveway over night! To be honest, after the initial bark, a standard car isn't too noisy. After about 20 seconds of running, the revs fall to a point when it's pretty quiet for early starts. Although I guess it's always subjective!

I find the mpg doesn't change much on how I drive it. Sure, cruise on for along run, I'll get 28-29. But through the month, or even a single journey of normal driving it always lands on or around 20mpg. If I'm out on a run, initial mpg falls to 16, but by the time I'm home, it's back up to 20. Likewise on a motorway journey, I'll tend to see 24, but once I've picked up through the lanes before destination, it's back down to low 20's.

Re the right car. I took a while to find mine. I wasn't too bothered on mileage, although the lower the better. I focussed on owners. I found the W204 tended to have a high throughput of owners. I guess the car is affordable to buy, but maintenance can sometimes come at a cost**. So I figured a good deal of them were purchased, threw a bill and were then punted on again.

I plumped for a 2011 pre face car with PPP. The gearbox is certainly slower than the later MCT version, but I can drive around that and now automatically anticipate the gear changes in good time.

• ** costwise. 15,000 miles in. Onto the second set of rears, although I got 12,000 miles from the first set. Fronts are still good from when I got the car. One service down - approx £400. 1 abs sensor - £55 with me fitting it. Approx 1/2 litre of oil for 1500 miles. Nothing else to report. Expect petrol. Quite a bit of that.