Discussion
My wife has a E220d convertible '14 plate with 38k miles on it, bought from a main dealer.
It's one of the cars that has been recalled for the emissions software. Anyway, the wife informed me that a strange yellow light is on in the car. Turns out to be the EML and Merc says both of the NOX sensors have failed, Merc main dealer wants £1250 to replace them, they'll do the software update while it's there!!
So I tried arguing that had the update been done when it was first announced then maybe the NOX sensors wouldn't have failed? I thought a reasonable assumption as the two are connected.
Merc don't want to know, won't replace the sensors, and not a penny as goodwill. So I have to stump up the full cost.
Needless to say, with them being so inflexible, neither me or the wife will be buying another Mercedes in the future. After her having two as her last couple of cars. Surely it's good business to keep your existing customers coming back? rather than have to replace them with new? Even if they'd contributed something to what is a known issue, I would have felt a little happier.
Oh well.
It's one of the cars that has been recalled for the emissions software. Anyway, the wife informed me that a strange yellow light is on in the car. Turns out to be the EML and Merc says both of the NOX sensors have failed, Merc main dealer wants £1250 to replace them, they'll do the software update while it's there!!
So I tried arguing that had the update been done when it was first announced then maybe the NOX sensors wouldn't have failed? I thought a reasonable assumption as the two are connected.
Merc don't want to know, won't replace the sensors, and not a penny as goodwill. So I have to stump up the full cost.
Needless to say, with them being so inflexible, neither me or the wife will be buying another Mercedes in the future. After her having two as her last couple of cars. Surely it's good business to keep your existing customers coming back? rather than have to replace them with new? Even if they'd contributed something to what is a known issue, I would have felt a little happier.
Oh well.
Hashtaggggg said:
Are the NOX sensors failing a known fault?
Yes, pretty well known (once I googled it) and tied in with the emissions software/ recall email that came from Mercedes. On the recall they check the sensors and renew if required. I never had that chance as the recall's been delayed.
Or is the fault due to buying a diesel car and only using it for short journeys, when the petrol version would have been more suitable?
When we bought it, the Merc (like VW) emissions scandal wasn't known about. The issue is not the DPF which is the short journey issue? While it hasn't been that far in the last 12 months before that 60+ miles daily commute.
Is the service schedule up to date/ Mercedes main dealer etc.
Bought at and serviced by main dealer, albeit it's now out of warranty due to being a 2014 model.
Too many unknowns to take sides..
Didn't really want people to take sides, just a rant for me based on what I think would be a correct response from an allegedly top marque. Just to wind me up, they banged on about 'customer service' and how important it is to them in a previous email about the recall
Yes, pretty well known (once I googled it) and tied in with the emissions software/ recall email that came from Mercedes. On the recall they check the sensors and renew if required. I never had that chance as the recall's been delayed.
Or is the fault due to buying a diesel car and only using it for short journeys, when the petrol version would have been more suitable?
When we bought it, the Merc (like VW) emissions scandal wasn't known about. The issue is not the DPF which is the short journey issue? While it hasn't been that far in the last 12 months before that 60+ miles daily commute.
Is the service schedule up to date/ Mercedes main dealer etc.
Bought at and serviced by main dealer, albeit it's now out of warranty due to being a 2014 model.
Too many unknowns to take sides..
Didn't really want people to take sides, just a rant for me based on what I think would be a correct response from an allegedly top marque. Just to wind me up, they banged on about 'customer service' and how important it is to them in a previous email about the recall
Edited by nordboy on Friday 12th March 16:43
Hashtaggggg said:
Are the NOX sensors failing a known fault?
Yes and in many cases Mercedes will replace either free of charge or with a goodwill gesture.I think there is a class action in America re NOx sensors and adblue issues in general, related to emission cheat devices used by Mercedes and issues resulting from recalls.
The other common issue with the adblue system is the pump failing which is situated in the adblue tank requiring a new tank as well as the pump at many £'s. Again Mercedes sometimes replace with cost assistance but that would depend on the dealer and the service history of the car.
As an aside the NOx sensors are also known to fail in their petrol cars as well. It relates to the positioning of the sensors in the exhaust which results in them being affected by condensation and rust. Apparently \Mercedes solution is to drill a small hole in the exhaust to allow the condensation to drain away. Very high tech
Edited by Monkeylegend on Friday 12th March 16:55
AIUI the update is to make the emissions less fraudulently noncompliant with the legal type approval emissions limits, NOT to address the NOx sensor failure issue.
I wouldn't want the software update personally, don't trust that they won't make it worse to drive/own. (Eg parents' Golf 1.6 TDI made less boost low down, so wouldn't pull as high a gear, post-update).
Which anyway then leads on to not taking it to the franchised dealer for anything (in case they slip the update in).
Which means no chance of a free fix for their known design fault NOx sensor failure, but on the upside it also frees you to seek out a good indy for a more cost-effective fix for this common fault on your seven year old car.
I wouldn't want the software update personally, don't trust that they won't make it worse to drive/own. (Eg parents' Golf 1.6 TDI made less boost low down, so wouldn't pull as high a gear, post-update).
Which anyway then leads on to not taking it to the franchised dealer for anything (in case they slip the update in).
Which means no chance of a free fix for their known design fault NOx sensor failure, but on the upside it also frees you to seek out a good indy for a more cost-effective fix for this common fault on your seven year old car.
nordboy said:
My wife has a E220d convertible '14 plate with 38k miles on it, bought from a main dealer.
It's one of the cars that has been recalled for the emissions software. Anyway, the wife informed me that a strange yellow light is on in the car. Turns out to be the EML and Merc says both of the NOX sensors have failed, Merc main dealer wants £1250 to replace them, they'll do the software update while it's there!!
So I tried arguing that had the update been done when it was first announced then maybe the NOX sensors wouldn't have failed? I thought a reasonable assumption as the two are connected.
Merc don't want to know, won't replace the sensors, and not a penny as goodwill. So I have to stump up the full cost.
Needless to say, with them being so inflexible, neither me or the wife will be buying another Mercedes in the future. After her having two as her last couple of cars. Surely it's good business to keep your existing customers coming back? rather than have to replace them with new? Even if they'd contributed something to what is a known issue, I would have felt a little happier.
Oh well.
If there's no chance of any goodwill, then I'd just take it to a reputable independent. It's one of the cars that has been recalled for the emissions software. Anyway, the wife informed me that a strange yellow light is on in the car. Turns out to be the EML and Merc says both of the NOX sensors have failed, Merc main dealer wants £1250 to replace them, they'll do the software update while it's there!!
So I tried arguing that had the update been done when it was first announced then maybe the NOX sensors wouldn't have failed? I thought a reasonable assumption as the two are connected.
Merc don't want to know, won't replace the sensors, and not a penny as goodwill. So I have to stump up the full cost.
Needless to say, with them being so inflexible, neither me or the wife will be buying another Mercedes in the future. After her having two as her last couple of cars. Surely it's good business to keep your existing customers coming back? rather than have to replace them with new? Even if they'd contributed something to what is a known issue, I would have felt a little happier.
Oh well.
It will be considerably cheaper. Well hopefully.
Thanks
The only independent near me has varied reviews so not overly keen to take it to them.
So, suck it up time and get the main dealer to sort it, as we need the car back asap. The wife's been without it for two weeks already!! And i'm fed up of being a chauffeur and i'm back in work next week anyway.
In the legal claim against Mercedes now as well, so hopefully get something back from them when they settle the damages claim.
The only independent near me has varied reviews so not overly keen to take it to them.
So, suck it up time and get the main dealer to sort it, as we need the car back asap. The wife's been without it for two weeks already!! And i'm fed up of being a chauffeur and i'm back in work next week anyway.
In the legal claim against Mercedes now as well, so hopefully get something back from them when they settle the damages claim.
nordboy said:
In the legal claim against Mercedes now as well, so hopefully get something back from them when they settle the damages claim.
Sorry to hear your issues with Merc, we have found their aftersales services is woeful, happy to flog you the metal, but there after you are on your own.Is the legal claim re emissions?
If so what route have you gone, as there seems plenty on Google
Nick67 said:
Sorry to hear your issues with Merc, we have found their aftersales services is woeful, happy to flog you the metal, but there after you are on your own.
Is the legal claim re emissions?
If so what route have you gone, as there seems plenty on Google
Have gone with Leigh Day as I’ve had dealings with them previously. I think there’s a few others that are working together on this?Is the legal claim re emissions?
If so what route have you gone, as there seems plenty on Google
Merc have basically done exactly the same with some of their cars that VW got caught out doing. Manipulating the emissions.
Worth checking if you have one.
Hashtaggggg said:
Are the NOX sensors failing a known fault?
Or is the fault due to buying a diesel car and only using it for short journeys, when the petrol version would have been more suitable?
Is the service schedule up to date/ Mercedes main dealer etc.
Too many unknowns to take sides..
That would be fine if Merc made it clear at point of sale that the car was not suitable for short journeys as I have stated many times to a Landrover about their bloody DPF regen problem!Or is the fault due to buying a diesel car and only using it for short journeys, when the petrol version would have been more suitable?
Is the service schedule up to date/ Mercedes main dealer etc.
Too many unknowns to take sides..
nordboy said:
Have gone with Leigh Day as I’ve had dealings with them previously. I think there’s a few others that are working together on this?
Merc have basically done exactly the same with some of their cars that VW got caught out doing. Manipulating the emissions.
Worth checking if you have one.
I think it would be fair to say that Merc have done exactly the same as VW with all their diesel cars, it kjust to longer for them to be found out.Merc have basically done exactly the same with some of their cars that VW got caught out doing. Manipulating the emissions.
Worth checking if you have one.
They have already lost one class action in the States which is why it is now being pushed hard by the no win no fee solicitors over here.
Make sure you read the small print though because you could be liable collectively for paying Mercs costs if the case goes in their favour.
nordboy said:
Needless to say, with them being so inflexible, neither me or the wife will be buying another Mercedes in the future. After her having two as her last couple of cars. Surely it's good business to keep your existing customers coming back?
Are you customer or are you a driver they are two different things. If you bought this car and the last two new then yes you are a customer. If you bought them used then they don’t make any money out of that so you’re really a driver and they don’t care. Once a car is out of its warranty period and / or past it’s first owner then the relationship with the manufacturer is quite different. If you refuse to buy a used Mercedes in the future they are not going to lose sleep over that. I’m not saying that’s right and I hope you get your issues sorted
For companies like Mercedes, BMW and VW, with the many well publicised and documented issues surrounding their cars over the years, there will always be people still desperate to buy their sometimes tainted goods.
The appeal of the badge and the fact that most are now leased and handed back within the warranty period will ensure they survive.
They don't really need to be to bothered about the second generation of buyer, who as said above, do not buy direct from them, so have very little impact other than keeping the servicing and spare parts markets ticking over, more than likely outside the dealer franchise and OEM market anyway.
For everyone who says never again, there is a queue of "German virgins" waiting to take their place.
The appeal of the badge and the fact that most are now leased and handed back within the warranty period will ensure they survive.
They don't really need to be to bothered about the second generation of buyer, who as said above, do not buy direct from them, so have very little impact other than keeping the servicing and spare parts markets ticking over, more than likely outside the dealer franchise and OEM market anyway.
For everyone who says never again, there is a queue of "German virgins" waiting to take their place.
Anonymous-poster said:
That would be fine if Merc made it clear at point of sale that the car was not suitable for short journeys
Buyer beware, I’m afraid. It has been known for many years that a diesel engined car isn’t ideal for short journeys, and then DPFs came along and made it worse. Anyone who buys a car with their eyes closed gets what’s coming. Edited by Tony1963 on Saturday 13th March 10:42
Tony1963 said:
Anonymous-poster said:
That would be fine if Merc made it clear at point of sale that the car was not suitable for short journeys
Buyer beware, I’m afraid. It has been known for many years that a diesel engined car isn’t ideal for short journeys, and then DPFs came along and made it worse. Anyone who buys a car with their eyes closed gets what’s coming. Monkeylegend said:
The appeal of the badge and the fact that most are now leased and handed back within the warranty period will ensure they survive.
They don't really need to be to bothered about the second generation of buyer, who as said above, do not buy direct from them, so have very little impact other than keeping the servicing and spare parts markets ticking over, more than likely outside the dealer franchise and OEM market anyway.
How do you calculate a lease rate? For a £50k car, how would you work out the rate for a three year lease?They don't really need to be to bothered about the second generation of buyer, who as said above, do not buy direct from them, so have very little impact other than keeping the servicing and spare parts markets ticking over, more than likely outside the dealer franchise and OEM market anyway.
It's quite simple, you estimate the residual value at the end of the lease (say £30k) and subtract that from list, giving £20k depreciation. You then split the £20k over 36 months, yielding a base cost of £555 pcm. Whack on a profit margin and stick "£599 a month" in the window sticker.
Now, say the 'second generation of buyer' who buys three-year-old Mercs decides they're not happy with either the product or the service, and they go buy Audis instead. The residual value at 3yo falls from £30k to £25k, that's now the price point at which you can find sufficient buyers for all the ex-lease cars. You're now looking at a £695 monthly lease cost before adding a profit margin, so £749 at the same profit margin. You're now competing with cars a class above in monthly lease rates, it makes a huge difference to the business model.
So no, the second generation of buyer has a huge impact on the sale of new Mercedes, and the fact that most are now leased or PCPd actually makes that connection much more direct and tangible than the old days where outright purchase was the norm.
Sheepshanks said:
That's not correct. The dealers are the experts. They should talk to you and establish your type of use and advise you accordingly.
Are they required by law to only sell you the car that is best suited to your needs?No.
What recognised qualifications are required for someone to become a seller of cars?
None.
Are car dealers under pressure to sell as many cars as they can?
Yes.
There are some good dealers out there, but when it comes to using your own money, you have to do the research yourself. The law doesn’t protect you against buying the wrong car.
Sheepshanks said:
Tony1963 said:
Anonymous-poster said:
That would be fine if Merc made it clear at point of sale that the car was not suitable for short journeys
Buyer beware, I’m afraid. It has been known for many years that a diesel engined car isn’t ideal for short journeys, and then DPFs came along and made it worse. Anyone who buys a car with their eyes closed gets what’s coming. I previously had a diesel car with DPF doing exactly the same journeys and never had a single problem.
Anonymous-poster said:
Sheepshanks said:
Tony1963 said:
Anonymous-poster said:
That would be fine if Merc made it clear at point of sale that the car was not suitable for short journeys
Buyer beware, I’m afraid. It has been known for many years that a diesel engined car isn’t ideal for short journeys, and then DPFs came along and made it worse. Anyone who buys a car with their eyes closed gets what’s coming. I previously had a diesel car with DPF doing exactly the same journeys and never had a single problem.
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