Discussion
I bought a C216 CL600 & a C140 S600.
I was looking at a C215 CL600 & the vendor's mechanic said don't touch a C215.
He said the the the C215 & C216 are like chalk & cheese & that it's difficult to believe they were built by the same manufacturer.
You have to remember that after the the fiasco of the W140 /C140 series which cost $US1bn (1989) to develop, was two years late to market (due to belatedly having to engineer a V12 to counter BMW's E32 750iL - which incidentally I've owned an example of for 20 years), too big, too heavy and too expensive - the drive with the W220 / C215 was to reduce weight, reduce complexity, reduce cost and reduce size.
The result was that the W220 / C215 suffered in terms of build quality. Also remember that in 1996 Mercedes was compelled by German legislation to move to water-based paints & it took them quite some time to get the rust-prevention sorted out.
Generally the period 1996 - 2006 is considered a dark period in terms of rust, build quality & reliability for Mercedes. In 1993 the Board passed a resolution requiring a reduction in build costs across all ranges and the development of new cross-over ranges to reduce dependency on any specific series (to avoid a future W140/C140 disaster).
This means that all Mercedes updates and facelifts from mid-1994 onwards had to show a build cost reduction.
You might find a cherished C215 CL600 & you can treat that car on its merits, but I'd recommend the C216 as the ABC suspension was more sorted by then & the build quality is superior.
Tim
I was looking at a C215 CL600 & the vendor's mechanic said don't touch a C215.
He said the the the C215 & C216 are like chalk & cheese & that it's difficult to believe they were built by the same manufacturer.
You have to remember that after the the fiasco of the W140 /C140 series which cost $US1bn (1989) to develop, was two years late to market (due to belatedly having to engineer a V12 to counter BMW's E32 750iL - which incidentally I've owned an example of for 20 years), too big, too heavy and too expensive - the drive with the W220 / C215 was to reduce weight, reduce complexity, reduce cost and reduce size.
The result was that the W220 / C215 suffered in terms of build quality. Also remember that in 1996 Mercedes was compelled by German legislation to move to water-based paints & it took them quite some time to get the rust-prevention sorted out.
Generally the period 1996 - 2006 is considered a dark period in terms of rust, build quality & reliability for Mercedes. In 1993 the Board passed a resolution requiring a reduction in build costs across all ranges and the development of new cross-over ranges to reduce dependency on any specific series (to avoid a future W140/C140 disaster).
This means that all Mercedes updates and facelifts from mid-1994 onwards had to show a build cost reduction.
You might find a cherished C215 CL600 & you can treat that car on its merits, but I'd recommend the C216 as the ABC suspension was more sorted by then & the build quality is superior.
Tim
I tried a 2008 CL 600 and was very impressed with the power once on the move, I didn't like the wood steering wheel in the car I tried but that was it. Anyway in the end I landed up with the AMG version of the CL600 a 2008 CL65.
I preferred the interior of the 2008 on cars and by all accounts it was a ground up re-designed new model. They are just superb in every respect but like all cars costing £120K plus new they have running costs up in the stratosphere when things need replacing, so you have to buy wisely and find a decent independent to look after it.
Coil packs go due to crap design although the replacements are better £1200 each side so two of them, the coil pack amplifier (think thats's right) went on mine and cost £600.
The suspension can be troublesome and I think they were £1200 per corner although mine were okay which I guess was luck. I'm sure someone who may be more up to date can correct any of my figures but these were what I had planned when I owned mine.
As I mentioned once on the move they have an almost cartoon feeling when under full acceleration with the scenery each side a blur. They can also do cosseted wafting with double glazing and vented seats a 400 mile round trip was like a trip to the shops and I got 35 MPG on a long run.
The AMG version although a bit more expensive was a pretty decent A road blaster being nearly as fast as my track prepped VX220 Turbo around my local twisty bit of road.
I preferred the interior of the 2008 on cars and by all accounts it was a ground up re-designed new model. They are just superb in every respect but like all cars costing £120K plus new they have running costs up in the stratosphere when things need replacing, so you have to buy wisely and find a decent independent to look after it.
Coil packs go due to crap design although the replacements are better £1200 each side so two of them, the coil pack amplifier (think thats's right) went on mine and cost £600.
The suspension can be troublesome and I think they were £1200 per corner although mine were okay which I guess was luck. I'm sure someone who may be more up to date can correct any of my figures but these were what I had planned when I owned mine.
As I mentioned once on the move they have an almost cartoon feeling when under full acceleration with the scenery each side a blur. They can also do cosseted wafting with double glazing and vented seats a 400 mile round trip was like a trip to the shops and I got 35 MPG on a long run.
The AMG version although a bit more expensive was a pretty decent A road blaster being nearly as fast as my track prepped VX220 Turbo around my local twisty bit of road.
The C216 CL65 like BIRMA's is an absolute beast - but you're into a law of diminishing returns situation relative to the standard CL600.
I don't like black interiors - so that rules out most the C216 AMG models.
I totally get the attraction of a C215 CL600 - but be very picky as they aren't many good ones out there.
Walk away from any car which hasn't been garaged its entire life, has had multiple applications of paint, suspension issues, coil pack issues or generally looks a little unloved.
Standard Classic buying advice - buy the best one you can afford - it's always cheaper & better than trying to improve a tired example.
I don't like black interiors - so that rules out most the C216 AMG models.
I totally get the attraction of a C215 CL600 - but be very picky as they aren't many good ones out there.
Walk away from any car which hasn't been garaged its entire life, has had multiple applications of paint, suspension issues, coil pack issues or generally looks a little unloved.
Standard Classic buying advice - buy the best one you can afford - it's always cheaper & better than trying to improve a tired example.
Penguinracer said:
The C216 CL65 like BIRMA's is an absolute beast - but you're into a law of diminishing returns situation relative to the standard CL600.
I don't like black interiors - so that rules out most the C216 AMG models.
I totally get the attraction of a C215 CL600 - but be very picky as they aren't many good ones out there.
Walk away from any car which hasn't been garaged its entire life, has had multiple applications of paint, suspension issues, coil pack issues or generally looks a little unloved.
Standard Classic buying advice - buy the best one you can afford - it's always cheaper & better than trying to improve a tired example.
The suspension on the AMG has been uprated by AMG and does have an effect over the standard CL 600 when getting a shift on but can also do serene as per the CL600.I don't like black interiors - so that rules out most the C216 AMG models.
I totally get the attraction of a C215 CL600 - but be very picky as they aren't many good ones out there.
Walk away from any car which hasn't been garaged its entire life, has had multiple applications of paint, suspension issues, coil pack issues or generally looks a little unloved.
Standard Classic buying advice - buy the best one you can afford - it's always cheaper & better than trying to improve a tired example.
One other point I forgot to mention was the electronic handbrake mechanism being a typical auto user I never used the handbrake and as a consequence my handbrake motor mechanism seized up which required a complete unit replacement again I think £800 springs to mind for replacement. So use it or loose it would be my advice. Also it was no neglect on my part it going the car was fully serviced (at great expense by Brooklands at MB World)
Just one other point about the inside difference between the 215 and the 216 I have to say I liked the black interior and loved the black ash in the AMG and its leather steering wheel. The 215 particularly in cream leather with the more red coloured wood reminded me of my mothers house with her fine wooden wardrobes and sideboards, whereas the 216 just looked so sophisticated and up to date. Of course in some respects the outside appearance of the 215 is more pleasing to the eye than the 216 but you do spend most of your time inside the car.
Edited by BIRMA on Thursday 26th March 13:54
OP if you do buy one and fancy a wheel change from standard I have a set of Vossen forged wheels for sale. They cost me over £7K and I had them on the car for a couple of months before selling the car. They were nano coated and like brand new and about half price plus they were made to fit the standard tyres.
Edited by BIRMA on Tuesday 31st March 15:43
BIRMA said:
Any developments on the CL600
Nothing, tbh the ABC horror stories on the FB forums are scaring the hell out of me, enough to even deter further lurking at drooling at SL500’s too.If there was no need for a 2+2 I’d already have grabbed a cheap Cayman or even gone back to a TVR, but alas old age and reliability need to bey a key factor these days.
The SL350 looks good value for money and a lot less cartoons to go too, although the grin factor is much less..
Grrrrr Oh to be young and carefree once again?
Cooky said:
Nothing, tbh the ABC horror stories on the FB forums are scaring the hell out of me, enough to even deter further lurking at drooling at SL500’s too.
If there was no need for a 2+2 I’d already have grabbed a cheap Cayman or even gone back to a TVR, but alas old age and reliability need to bey a key factor these days.
The SL350 looks good value for money and a lot less cartoons to go too, although the grin factor is much less..
Grrrrr Oh to be young and carefree once again?
I can see your point and totally agree, although they will drop even further in price soon, it's the fact that any warranty for major failures/parts is expensive and has more loopholes and get out clauses that just doesn't make it a sensible choice.If there was no need for a 2+2 I’d already have grabbed a cheap Cayman or even gone back to a TVR, but alas old age and reliability need to bey a key factor these days.
The SL350 looks good value for money and a lot less cartoons to go too, although the grin factor is much less..
Grrrrr Oh to be young and carefree once again?
As much as I enjoyed my AMG's I made the switch over to Lexus, not as fast etc, etc but when you can get fully comprehensive manufacturers warranty cover for even the high performance cars for £450 a year and their warranties are legendary with the no quibble nature of the cover I really can't see myself going back.
It was on the basis of the scare-stories about the ABC, coil packs & corrosion on C215's & the advice of a Mercedes mechanic (to whom the vendor of C215 CL600 referred me) that got me looking at the C216.
Alternatively you could go "Old-Skool" & look for one of the 92 UK-registered C140 CL600/S/600 coupes.
While non-turbo, they have the distinction of being one of the few quad-cam 48-valve V12's made by anyone other than Ferrari or Lamborghini.
The current BMW 760iL is only other quad-cam 48 valve German V12 car-engine.I think has been made in the last 90 years!
Before the M120 the last Mercedes V12 produced was in the nose of a Messerschmitt!
Tim
Alternatively you could go "Old-Skool" & look for one of the 92 UK-registered C140 CL600/S/600 coupes.
While non-turbo, they have the distinction of being one of the few quad-cam 48-valve V12's made by anyone other than Ferrari or Lamborghini.
The current BMW 760iL is only other quad-cam 48 valve German V12 car-engine.I think has been made in the last 90 years!
Before the M120 the last Mercedes V12 produced was in the nose of a Messerschmitt!
Tim
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