Discussion
Not one to dispel the myth of indecisiveness on Pistonheads a while back I had a thread on getting something a little more special as a toy in place of lightweight track stuff Ive had of old.
However, that took a turn when I decided to go for a race engine for my Ginetta G40R so looks like it will be staying after all!
I am currently pottering back and forward to work in an Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf as it came up cheap when I sold my old T5 camper and bought the wife a people carrier. It's been a great thing just to nip back and forwards in.
However, I keep having the notion to replace it with a C63 (6.2 guise) and trying to weigh things up.
Commute is roughly 20 miles each way and at 27-30mpg in the Alfa so I figure I'm going to lose a third of that mpg?
I know everyone says not to buy this sort of thing with mpg in mind but just trying to work out rough running costs. Servicing (other than tyres!) I'm working out much the same as the alfa as it's expensive for parts.
Main question is surrounding the LSD or lack of as standard in the Merc.
What is the general consensus...Hold out for one fitted already or stop being s picky and buy the car with the rest of the spec/history right and just factor in £1kish for a diff to be sorted?
Cheers,
Dave
However, that took a turn when I decided to go for a race engine for my Ginetta G40R so looks like it will be staying after all!
I am currently pottering back and forward to work in an Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf as it came up cheap when I sold my old T5 camper and bought the wife a people carrier. It's been a great thing just to nip back and forwards in.
However, I keep having the notion to replace it with a C63 (6.2 guise) and trying to weigh things up.
Commute is roughly 20 miles each way and at 27-30mpg in the Alfa so I figure I'm going to lose a third of that mpg?
I know everyone says not to buy this sort of thing with mpg in mind but just trying to work out rough running costs. Servicing (other than tyres!) I'm working out much the same as the alfa as it's expensive for parts.
Main question is surrounding the LSD or lack of as standard in the Merc.
What is the general consensus...Hold out for one fitted already or stop being s picky and buy the car with the rest of the spec/history right and just factor in £1kish for a diff to be sorted?
Cheers,
Dave
If you intend to just commute in the C63 and have the "occasional bit of fun"
then is it really worth specifying a LSD? If it is fitted when you buy the car,
that's great but otherwise, when will you feel the benefit? Even motorway
driving in this country can be tedious and the only place I have ever been
in these islands and had fun is Wales. Some of the roads there are fantastic
for a bit of a hoon.
then is it really worth specifying a LSD? If it is fitted when you buy the car,
that's great but otherwise, when will you feel the benefit? Even motorway
driving in this country can be tedious and the only place I have ever been
in these islands and had fun is Wales. Some of the roads there are fantastic
for a bit of a hoon.
I appreciate the LSD night not be strictly necessary but having driven westfields without in the past and hated it I have this notion in my head I need it!
To be fair I live in the north of Scotland so comparible roads to wales and have some good back roads on my commute with slow tight corners that are prime LSD territory.
Cheers,
Dave
To be fair I live in the north of Scotland so comparible roads to wales and have some good back roads on my commute with slow tight corners that are prime LSD territory.
Cheers,
Dave
Terzo123 said:
As far as I can tell, mine doesn't have an LSD and so far I've not found it to be an issue. It just means when its damp don't treat the accelerator as an on, off switch.
Yep. Agree with this. I've got a p30 perf pack sans lsd and not missed it to be honest. Not a drift merchant so not a big deal. The lsd is the single most important (and only) mod you need to do to the car. It transforms the control/feel even at low speeds. Anyone that has one and experienced the car before it was fitted will say the same. The early cars had it as part of the performance pack, it was dropped on later cars and had to be specifically specced. I'd be forgetting about it to start with, find the best car you can and budget a quaife. £1k wont do it tho you'll need £1.5k.
Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
irish boy said:
The lsd is the single most important (and only) mod you need to do to the car. It transforms the control/feel even at low speeds. Anyone that has one and experienced the car before it was fitted will say the same. The early cars had it as part of the performance pack, it was dropped on later cars and had to be specifically specced. I'd be forgetting about it to start with, find the best car you can and budget a quaife. £1k wont do it tho you'll need £1.5k.
Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
That’s what I’d read re. Diff making it like a new car. Also, with my past experience of RWD with no LSD didn’t leave me with any love for it as just felt it spinning power away. That was in a lightweight toy though so completely different scenario!Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
Get what you say about it having character etc. That’s kind of what’s drawing me too them as I find most modern stuff dull as dishwater!
I'll also vouch for the Quaife 
The difference in the car is night and day and I can now put the power down and know the car is going to pull away as I want it to. As stated above I don't stamp on the loud pedal (never have in any car) but I can press it down firmly to the floor and know the car is going to grip and go
The difference in the car is night and day and I can now put the power down and know the car is going to pull away as I want it to. As stated above I don't stamp on the loud pedal (never have in any car) but I can press it down firmly to the floor and know the car is going to grip and go
Posts about the diff keep popping up - I'm getting more and more tempted myself! I think you're looking at slightly over £1k for the diff, it's around £1.6k from Birds who seem to be the recommended supplier. You can get the diff only for £1k, but would need somebody to fit it.
In my hunt for C63's I came across a few cars which seemed the perfect spec, but when I went to see them for one reason or another they weren't quite right. I compromised slightly on options and went for a clean car with good history and haven't regretted it yet.
Fuel economy depends on your commute I'd say, I've averaged around 17mpg (indicated on the trip computer) since owning the car. If I do a long clear motorway run without excessive use of the right foot I've seen up to 28mpg, if I'm enjoying some country roads it's normally 15-20mpg, if I go into London with regular traffic I can't seem to get over 15mpg and have seen as low as 8! I get around 200 miles per tank each time.
Servicing hasn't been too bad for me, so far, touch wood. If you're planning on MB servicing I'd definitely look at the service plan options as it can work out cheaper than paying for each service, especially if the gearbox oil change is due.
I can see tyres getting expensive, I've done around 2500 miles on my current Michelin PS4s and the rears are about half worn, fronts are down by about 2mm. I had winter tyres on over Nov-Mar, which all started around 5mm, the rears were shredded when they came off 3000 miles later. Rear brake pads also wore down fairly quickly, apparently this can happen when driving at the edge of traction due to the way the TC works. I changed the pads myself, they were about £150 from MB on eBay.
The costs are probably what you'd expect, but I'd say you get a lot more smiles per gallon than most other cars on the road
In my hunt for C63's I came across a few cars which seemed the perfect spec, but when I went to see them for one reason or another they weren't quite right. I compromised slightly on options and went for a clean car with good history and haven't regretted it yet.
Fuel economy depends on your commute I'd say, I've averaged around 17mpg (indicated on the trip computer) since owning the car. If I do a long clear motorway run without excessive use of the right foot I've seen up to 28mpg, if I'm enjoying some country roads it's normally 15-20mpg, if I go into London with regular traffic I can't seem to get over 15mpg and have seen as low as 8! I get around 200 miles per tank each time.
Servicing hasn't been too bad for me, so far, touch wood. If you're planning on MB servicing I'd definitely look at the service plan options as it can work out cheaper than paying for each service, especially if the gearbox oil change is due.
I can see tyres getting expensive, I've done around 2500 miles on my current Michelin PS4s and the rears are about half worn, fronts are down by about 2mm. I had winter tyres on over Nov-Mar, which all started around 5mm, the rears were shredded when they came off 3000 miles later. Rear brake pads also wore down fairly quickly, apparently this can happen when driving at the edge of traction due to the way the TC works. I changed the pads myself, they were about £150 from MB on eBay.
The costs are probably what you'd expect, but I'd say you get a lot more smiles per gallon than most other cars on the road
yo-gurt said:
I can see tyres getting expensive, I've done around 2500 miles on my current Michelin PS4s and the rears are about half worn, fronts are down by about 2mm. I had winter tyres on over Nov-Mar, which all started around 5mm, the rears were shredded when they came off 3000 miles later.
That doesn't make for good reading, looking at your tyre wear rate, Yo-gurt!!I have just purchased some MPS4's and I was anticipating getting more than 5 or 6000 miles out of them.
Please tell me you do a fair bit of "enthusiastic" driving?
goddo said:
That doesn't make for good reading, looking at your tyre wear rate, Yo-gurt!!
I have just purchased some MPS4's and I was anticipating getting more than 5 or 6000 miles out of them.
Please tell me you do a fair bit of "enthusiastic" driving?
It's hard not to drive "enthusiastically" with the beastly V8 howling at you! I have just purchased some MPS4's and I was anticipating getting more than 5 or 6000 miles out of them.
Please tell me you do a fair bit of "enthusiastic" driving?
General consensus seem to be about 5-6k is considered normal for rears on the C63, I think my wear rate has probably been slightly excessive due to having not owned the car too long and wanting to find out what it's capable of. I also plan to get my alignment/tracking looked at before the next set. The PS4S is a great tyre however, I have them on the 911 and after 1-2k miles the tread still looks new - the C63 is just particularly rubber hungry and fuel thirsty! Cheers for all the comments guys.
I think it has cemented why I thought about LSD. Like I say, drove a Westfield with open diff once and hated it!
Spotted one I quite like on auto trader (a red one with some nice carbon bits and an IPE exhaust) so I’ve contacted the seller for some more info.
Cheers,
Dave
I think it has cemented why I thought about LSD. Like I say, drove a Westfield with open diff once and hated it!
Spotted one I quite like on auto trader (a red one with some nice carbon bits and an IPE exhaust) so I’ve contacted the seller for some more info.
Cheers,
Dave
yo-gurt said:
I can see tyres getting expensive, I've done around 2500 miles on my current Michelin PS4s and the rears are about half worn, fronts are down by about 2mm. I had winter tyres on over Nov-Mar, which all started around 5mm, the rears were shredded when they came off 3000 miles later. Rear brake pads also wore down fairly quickly, apparently this can happen when driving at the edge of traction due to the way the TC works. I changed the pads myself, they were about £150 from MB on eBay.
Can you explain how you're driving the car to get such little miles out of the PS4s? I had 4 put on my C63 coupe (19" rims) during May 2018 and by the last service (and MOT) in Jan 2019, the video Merc sent me showed the techie commenting that all 4 tyres had 6mm of tread left on them. Before that, and since the new rubber went on, I did a drive (quite a spirited drive) with others from Calais to the Le Mans 2018 which included getting on the track a few hours after the race finished and throwing the C63 around the Tertre Rouge area of the track a few times. After that, I did the NC500 which was very spirited driving indeed. I came back yesterday from a road trip up to Loch Ness and back for the BH weekend (back as in to SE London). The PS4s still have a lot of meat left on them. All in all, I've done nearly 10k on all four PS4s. As for brakes, I've had the car since Jan 2016 and it's a 63 plate which had 11k miles on it when I bought it. At the last service, and at 50k miles, Merc advised that the brake pads were at 50% wear and should be replaced at the next service (Jan 2020).
What on earth are you doing to yours to get such bad wear on brakes and tyres? Did you get the car properly tracked on the front and rear? IMHO, this car is not that expensive to run. My old ST220 ate front tyres, front discs and pads like there was no tomorrow, but the C63, and I don't hang about in it, seems to be much cheaper to run........apart from the fuel of course...lol
Edited by LeMansNut on Tuesday 23 April 18:36
irish boy said:
The lsd is the single most important (and only) mod you need to do to the car. It transforms the control/feel even at low speeds. Anyone that has one and experienced the car before it was fitted will say the same. The early cars had it as part of the performance pack, it was dropped on later cars and had to be specifically specced. I'd be forgetting about it to start with, find the best car you can and budget a quaife. £1k wont do it tho you'll need £1.5k.
Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
Well supercharger is a nice to have too Other than that they are superb. Lots of people coming back to them from newer//more expensive cars due to their character and nature. They are also very reliable bar head bolts on early cars, and some ticky hydraulic lifters that can affect all years if your unlucky. All top end stuff which isn't the end of the world cost wise, in fact I cant think of many other 500 horse cars I'd happily run outside warranty.
LeMansNut said:
Can you explain how you're driving the car to get such little miles out of the PS4s? I had 4 put on my C63 coupe (19" rims) during May 2018 and by the last service (and MOT) in Jan 2019, the video Merc sent me showed the techie commenting that all 4 tyres had 6mm of tread left on them. Before that, and since the new rubber went on, I did a drive (quite a spirited drive) with others from Calais to the Le Mans 2018 which included getting on the track a few hours after the race finished and throwing the C63 around the Tertre Rouge area of the track a few times. After that, I did the NC500 which was very spirited driving indeed. I came back yesterday from a road trip up to Loch Ness and back for the BH weekend (back as in to SE London). The PS4s still have a lot of meat left on them. All in all, I've done nearly 10k on all four PS4s.
As for brakes, I've had the car since Jan 2016 and it's a 63 plate which had 11k miles on it when I bought it. At the last service, and at 50k miles, Merc advised that the brake pads were at 50% wear and should be replaced at the next service (Jan 2020).
What on earth are you doing to yours to get such bad wear on brakes and tyres? Did you get the car properly tracked on the front and rear? IMHO, this car is not that expensive to run. My old ST220 ate front tyres, front discs and pads like there was no tomorrow, but the C63, and I don't hang about in it, seems to be much cheaper to run........apart from the fuel of course...lol
It might be something as mundane as stop/ start, town traffic. I say this after managing to eat through my fronts on my S4 in 6k miles. And that's an S4, Quattro, not exactly stonking torque - but without longer runs to cover more miles more efficiently it just loves to chew the rubber.As for brakes, I've had the car since Jan 2016 and it's a 63 plate which had 11k miles on it when I bought it. At the last service, and at 50k miles, Merc advised that the brake pads were at 50% wear and should be replaced at the next service (Jan 2020).
What on earth are you doing to yours to get such bad wear on brakes and tyres? Did you get the car properly tracked on the front and rear? IMHO, this car is not that expensive to run. My old ST220 ate front tyres, front discs and pads like there was no tomorrow, but the C63, and I don't hang about in it, seems to be much cheaper to run........apart from the fuel of course...lol
Edited by LeMansNut on Tuesday 23 April 18:36
rokut said:
It might be something as mundane as stop/ start, town traffic. I say this after managing to eat through my fronts on my S4 in 6k miles. And that's an S4, Quattro, not exactly stonking torque - but without longer runs to cover more miles more efficiently it just loves to chew the rubber.
Well, I can only comment on the C63 in that the "it eat's tyres" is, in my experience, nowt but a myth. I remember talking to folk in real life and on forums when I was looking for a C63 and all I ever got back was "you're going to be changing tyres every 2000 miles" which has proved to be way off the mark. Yes, if you're constantly doing burnouts and constantly throwing the thing around then you would see quick tyre wear, just like with any other capable car. However, I didn't spend 36k on a car to just abuse it with burnouts and driving it to it's limit on public roads. In fact, before the PS4s went on, I had Conti Sport Contacts on the front for 2 years and Mich Pilot Super Sports on the rear for the latter 12 months of that 2 years.. The Conti rears got replaced because once of them got a huge nail in it so I replaced them with the Mich Pilot Super Sports. The Sport Contacts on the front had done 1 x Le Mans 24 trip + a rally which took me through France, Germany (often up to 150mph on the Autobahns), Austria, Italy (as far as Rome), Switzerland and back to the UK + 1000s of miles of pottering about in the UK. All in all, I got about 15k out of those front Conti Sport Contacts and there was still some meat left on them. With regards to the Super Sports on the rear, I had done 1 x Le Mans 24 trip followed by a blast down to Monaco and back to the UK + usual pottering about in the UK. So put around 5k on them.
When I replaced the lot with PS4s, the manager of the tyre place asked me why I was replacing the rears because the Mich Super Sports had 6mm of tread left on them. He said to me "if you don't take the tyres (the Super Sports) home with you then I will and I'll sell them on Ebay". Although I wanted all 4 corners to be the same rubber, I was a bit shocked at how much meat was left on the Super Sports. Believe me, I'm well chuffed just to get 10k out of such tyres.
Anyway, I took the Super Sports home with me and they're sitting in the garage until the rear PS4s wear out and so I'll whack 'em back on. Just to be clear here, I don't drive my C63 like an old fart, I do hammer it and I do lose traction on a lot of occasions (no LSD), but this "oh, it eats tyres" narrative is not quite true. Here's a pic of the Super Sports after 5k miles.
P.S. I do get the front and rear tracked when new tyres go on.
Edited by LeMansNut on Wednesday 24th April 18:31
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