Discussion
I'm toying with an S class. Budget up to £20k. Any advice on engines, extras, running costs etc would be much appreciated. Seems to be a few for sale out there but I want to do some homework before I start the search. I have an e class estate and SL 350 but know nothing about the s class.
jw01 said:
I'm toying with an S class. Budget up to £20k. Any advice on engines, extras, running costs etc would be much appreciated. Seems to be a few for sale out there but I want to do some homework before I start the search. I have an e class estate and SL 350 but know nothing about the s class.
All standard engines and gearboxes - at that budget you’ll be in a leggy 222 or a nice 221 and sadly a diesel. The only extra bits over a c class is the air suspension and the potential issues that come with that.Listen, I’ve had 3 v6 diesel Mercedes all with issues and a 221 which fell to the ground due to the air suspension (or a part within it) crapping out. £1200 got it back in the air.
Comfortable, big and spacious cars with a great range of adjustment in the seats (sadly not all cars are like this) but expect Mercedes rust, unreliability and poor quality. A nice thing to say you own but the reality doesn’t meet up with the expectation. When they work they are nice but I reckon you want a petrol to get the full luxury experience
Jw02 said:
wow thats depressing
If you budget £3000 to £5000/yr to maintain the car properly you’ll be fine. You can’t run them cheaply. Don’t fall into the 40mpg trap. That’s what they do in fuel - not what they do in the garage. Labour costs, even specialists are not cheap and they’re complex and not well made. Lots to go wrong on the v6 and 7 speed, lots to go on the air suspension- they do rust like all Mercedes and bags of gadgets to crap out. Its not a car for someone who likes the easy hassle free life. I’d buy a Lexus ls460 - nicer, more reliable, faster and quieter.
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Conversely, I have had seven Mercedes, five with the 7g gearbox, three with the OM642 350 and never had an issue with any of the drive train, or rust, or electrics, or air suspension. Over hundreds of thousands of miles. Additionally, I have never had a big bill aside from consumables/acceptable failures.
Also, to be clear, I am 100% not a Mercedes fan boy; cannot see anything in their current range that excites me; despise their current marketing; think all their dealers are crap and probably wouldn't ever buy another one.
But, you can't dismiss them all as poorly built rust buckets.
Also, to be clear, I am 100% not a Mercedes fan boy; cannot see anything in their current range that excites me; despise their current marketing; think all their dealers are crap and probably wouldn't ever buy another one.
But, you can't dismiss them all as poorly built rust buckets.
st4 said:
Jw02 said:
wow thats depressing
If you budget £3000 to £5000/yr to maintain the car properly you’ll be fine. You can’t run them cheaply. Don’t fall into the 40mpg trap. That’s what they do in fuel - not what they do in the garage. Labour costs, even specialists are not cheap and they’re complex and not well made. Lots to go wrong on the v6 and 7 speed, lots to go on the air suspension- they do rust like all Mercedes and bags of gadgets to crap out. Its not a car for someone who likes the easy hassle free life. I’d buy a Lexus ls460 - nicer, more reliable, faster and quieter.
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
ks a lot of the time, but that really is peak stupidity.st4 said:
Jw02 said:
wow thats depressing
If you budget £3000 to £5000/yr to maintain the car properly you’ll be fine. You can’t run them cheaply. Don’t fall into the 40mpg trap. That’s what they do in fuel - not what they do in the garage. Labour costs, even specialists are not cheap and they’re complex and not well made. Lots to go wrong on the v6 and 7 speed, lots to go on the air suspension- they do rust like all Mercedes and bags of gadgets to crap out. Its not a car for someone who likes the easy hassle free life. I’d buy a Lexus ls460 - nicer, more reliable, faster and quieter.
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Will that now be a regular response here, don't buy MB, buy Lexus.
Of course, if that's not you, I respectfully withdraw my comments.
I am surprised by some comments. I spoke to the specialist merc outfit that looks after my SL and he described the 221as bulletproof and fairly economic to run. At my budget I'm probably looking at the 221. Is the 222 significantly better. I'm also an ex f355 owner and even that didn't cost me 5k per year!
15000 miles in an W221
I’ve driven Mercedes cars for many years – mostly E Classes, with the odd small one - a C350CDI - and (very) large one – a GL420 – thrown in for good measure. They’ve never been the most glamorous of cars and, given that I tend to buy cars with 100k+ miles on them, they’re usually well-worn when I get them, with the odd niggle which costs a bit to sort out. Despite this, I've only ever had significant problems with one of them, a (very) rusty S210, whose body was just riddled with oxide but which I loved dearly nonetheless.
Not that I'm a total Mercedes fanboy - I didn't warm to the A-Class at all; I borrowed one and drove it 2000 miles, after which my conclusion was that it felt competent but far more like a Kia than a Mercedes. And although my GL was hugely capable, particularly offroad - it always felt massive and just a bit too big for British roads.
One itch I really wanted to scratch was the S Class just because, well, I’d always wanted one. I’d driven a W140 S500 and had really liked it, but it felt very outdated and cumbersome, albeit my dictator fantasies were more than fulfilled. The W220 has an appalling reputation for rust, quality and longevity, so that was a no-no. I also wanted a diesel – this had to be a daily driver and therefore some form of fuel economy was essential; I love big V8s but something that struggled to better 20mpg would simply not get used on a regular basis.
All of this led me, following a divorce and the freeing up of space on the driveway, to look at the S221, specifically the SWB S320CDI. Whilst the idea of a long wheelbase version is attractive, the reality is that the SWB is a more usable car for everyday life; I wanted this for me to drive, and the extra length wouldn’t give me anything other than additional difficulty in parking.
I looked around for a bit, and ended up buying a dark grey 2010 320CDI with 98k on the clock; no rust, no dents, FSH. There are hardly any options fitted, but my key wants are cruise, climate control and really good heated seats. I don’t need or want adaptive cruise control, night vision or a massively OTT sound system, nor blinds, double-glazing or soft-close doors, so the standard spec is virtually all I wanted. Everything functioned as it should, and it had a good MOT history, but it needed a little work. New front discs and pads were £250 at my local independent, I immediately put 4 new tyres on it (£600), upgraded the (non-Xenon) headlights to LED with Philips bulbs (£140) and added a Bluetooth dongle for £20 to allow me to stream music and podcasts from my phone. Insurance was, hilariously, just £300 for a year, which is the same price as my E220CDI estate.
Since then ….. almost nothing. The Barge and I have done 15,000 miles in seven months and nothing’s gone wrong. Mindful of the utterly useless roadholding of my previous and current E-Class estates in winter conditions, I bought some secondhand 17” Mercedes wheels fitted with nearly-new Vredestein winter tyres from eBay Germany for £400 (and got the battle scarred and slightly dented original 18” wheels refurbished for £220) and have driven through the winter. The car’s been to the French Alps twice (snow? pah!!), done urban go-to-Sainsbury duties, travelled 5-up at very high speed, has done a 1200-mile day; all of this has been shrugged off by the car’s huge innate abilities. The winter tyres have meant that although there’s been the occasional rear-end wiggle when accelerating off a roundabout, the traction control light has seen little action through the slime and grime of a British winter.
I love the ride, the handling, and the fact that The Barge doesn’t feel as large as it is; it reminds me most of a much-loved E39 I had some years back, but with a far better powertrain and an infinitely more refined and relaxed feel. I've averaged 34.5mpg over that period which is, frankly, unbelievably good given that it does a fair amount of town driving and I’ve not had any particular eye to economy, and it means that on a long motorway cruise the only reason for stopping is to empty your bladder rather than to refill the car. At an 80mph cruise you're doing 40mpg, meaning a 750+ mile range, which is just silly. In terms of speed it's clearly never going to trouble any of the AMG models, but there's enough grunt to make unobtrusively swift progress.
I’ve since tried a W222 on a 24 hour test drive from my local dealer; it was lovely, and quantifiably better in pretty much every way (as well as being a lot quicker), but in no way could I justify the cost. Depreciation will sort that out soon enough though.....
“What about the costs?” I hear you say. Well, the car plus immediate sort-out costs came to under £8k, with a service at my local indy costing £500 – not bad, considering that this was a major change-every-filter service and included a transmission fluid change. Nothing has broken. Nothing has gone wrong. Nothing has worn out. There has been not a single bulb failure, nor a warning light displayed other than traction control in the wet. I'm just coming up on another service now, so it may be that there are some horrible surprises awaiting me, but I doubt it.
The 221 is a perfect antidote to a hectic life; I get out after a long drive feeling relaxed, and have yet to feel anything other than chilled even after delays, road rage and the generally appalling drivers who seem to live on the M25.
I’ve driven Mercedes cars for many years – mostly E Classes, with the odd small one - a C350CDI - and (very) large one – a GL420 – thrown in for good measure. They’ve never been the most glamorous of cars and, given that I tend to buy cars with 100k+ miles on them, they’re usually well-worn when I get them, with the odd niggle which costs a bit to sort out. Despite this, I've only ever had significant problems with one of them, a (very) rusty S210, whose body was just riddled with oxide but which I loved dearly nonetheless.
Not that I'm a total Mercedes fanboy - I didn't warm to the A-Class at all; I borrowed one and drove it 2000 miles, after which my conclusion was that it felt competent but far more like a Kia than a Mercedes. And although my GL was hugely capable, particularly offroad - it always felt massive and just a bit too big for British roads.
One itch I really wanted to scratch was the S Class just because, well, I’d always wanted one. I’d driven a W140 S500 and had really liked it, but it felt very outdated and cumbersome, albeit my dictator fantasies were more than fulfilled. The W220 has an appalling reputation for rust, quality and longevity, so that was a no-no. I also wanted a diesel – this had to be a daily driver and therefore some form of fuel economy was essential; I love big V8s but something that struggled to better 20mpg would simply not get used on a regular basis.
All of this led me, following a divorce and the freeing up of space on the driveway, to look at the S221, specifically the SWB S320CDI. Whilst the idea of a long wheelbase version is attractive, the reality is that the SWB is a more usable car for everyday life; I wanted this for me to drive, and the extra length wouldn’t give me anything other than additional difficulty in parking.
I looked around for a bit, and ended up buying a dark grey 2010 320CDI with 98k on the clock; no rust, no dents, FSH. There are hardly any options fitted, but my key wants are cruise, climate control and really good heated seats. I don’t need or want adaptive cruise control, night vision or a massively OTT sound system, nor blinds, double-glazing or soft-close doors, so the standard spec is virtually all I wanted. Everything functioned as it should, and it had a good MOT history, but it needed a little work. New front discs and pads were £250 at my local independent, I immediately put 4 new tyres on it (£600), upgraded the (non-Xenon) headlights to LED with Philips bulbs (£140) and added a Bluetooth dongle for £20 to allow me to stream music and podcasts from my phone. Insurance was, hilariously, just £300 for a year, which is the same price as my E220CDI estate.
Since then ….. almost nothing. The Barge and I have done 15,000 miles in seven months and nothing’s gone wrong. Mindful of the utterly useless roadholding of my previous and current E-Class estates in winter conditions, I bought some secondhand 17” Mercedes wheels fitted with nearly-new Vredestein winter tyres from eBay Germany for £400 (and got the battle scarred and slightly dented original 18” wheels refurbished for £220) and have driven through the winter. The car’s been to the French Alps twice (snow? pah!!), done urban go-to-Sainsbury duties, travelled 5-up at very high speed, has done a 1200-mile day; all of this has been shrugged off by the car’s huge innate abilities. The winter tyres have meant that although there’s been the occasional rear-end wiggle when accelerating off a roundabout, the traction control light has seen little action through the slime and grime of a British winter.
I love the ride, the handling, and the fact that The Barge doesn’t feel as large as it is; it reminds me most of a much-loved E39 I had some years back, but with a far better powertrain and an infinitely more refined and relaxed feel. I've averaged 34.5mpg over that period which is, frankly, unbelievably good given that it does a fair amount of town driving and I’ve not had any particular eye to economy, and it means that on a long motorway cruise the only reason for stopping is to empty your bladder rather than to refill the car. At an 80mph cruise you're doing 40mpg, meaning a 750+ mile range, which is just silly. In terms of speed it's clearly never going to trouble any of the AMG models, but there's enough grunt to make unobtrusively swift progress.
I’ve since tried a W222 on a 24 hour test drive from my local dealer; it was lovely, and quantifiably better in pretty much every way (as well as being a lot quicker), but in no way could I justify the cost. Depreciation will sort that out soon enough though.....
“What about the costs?” I hear you say. Well, the car plus immediate sort-out costs came to under £8k, with a service at my local indy costing £500 – not bad, considering that this was a major change-every-filter service and included a transmission fluid change. Nothing has broken. Nothing has gone wrong. Nothing has worn out. There has been not a single bulb failure, nor a warning light displayed other than traction control in the wet. I'm just coming up on another service now, so it may be that there are some horrible surprises awaiting me, but I doubt it.
The 221 is a perfect antidote to a hectic life; I get out after a long drive feeling relaxed, and have yet to feel anything other than chilled even after delays, road rage and the generally appalling drivers who seem to live on the M25.
st4 said:
...at that budget you’ll be in a leggy 222 or a nice 221 and sadly a diesel.
Why do you say it will be a diesel?There are plenty of petrol 221's in that price range.
I've just bought an S500 W221 - low mileage (65k), full MBSH, excellent condition, excellent spec (pano, ventilated leather, distronic, night vision), no faults that I've yet identified after the first couple of thousand miles in my hands - for less than half the OP's budget.
Equus said:
st4 said:
...at that budget you’ll be in a leggy 222 or a nice 221 and sadly a diesel.
Why do you say it will be a diesel?There are plenty of petrol 221's in that price range.
I've just bought an S500 W221 - low mileage (65k), full MBSH, excellent condition, excellent spec (pano, ventilated leather, distronic, night vision), no faults that I've yet identified after the first couple of thousand miles in my hands - for less than half the OP's budget.
longblackcoat said:
Out of interest, what sort of fuel consumption have you seen over that period? Be interested to know what it’s like in real world driving; I’ve been led to believe that the S500 averages 20mpg at best, but that could be cobblers.
I get between 23 and 24mpg average (with up to about 27mpg on a long run).I live in a rural area, however, and don't have a particularly heavy right foot. For the mix of driving I do, I usually tend to match or sometimes beat the manufacturer's claimed 'extra urban' figure for whatever car I'm driving.
In this case, Mercedes' claimed 'extra urban' is 32.8mpg, and I've not seen anything close to that, even on a long run. Though it does seem to be improving gradually in my ownership so far - possibly the gearbox 'learning' my driving style?
If you live in a big city, however, I could easily believe that you'll seldom see the right side of 20mpg (and in London, you can probably amend that to read 'single figures').
longblackcoat said:
There are hardly any options fitted, but my key wants are cruise, climate control and really good heated seats. I don’t need or want adaptive cruise control, night vision or a massively OTT sound system, nor blinds, double-glazing or soft-close doors, so the standard spec is virtually all I wanted.
In answer to the OP's question on options (and as an alternative perspective to the above), my car is very well optioned; it's the LWB, and the only options I'm aware of that is isn't fitted with are ABC, soft-close doors and a fridge in the rear arm rest.The two 'must haves' for me were the Distronic (adaptive) cruise control and ventilated leather. I discounted any cars not fitted with these, when I was looking to buy.The former does its job well, and I use it a lot. We'll see about the ventilated leather come summer.
The night vision I find a gimmick; it does pick up deer quite well, which is handy where I live, but conversely you get a lot of glare from reflective traffic signs, which I find very annoying, and the display position means I can't drive from it (maybe if you're of the Playstation generation, and used to controlling a car on a little screen instead of looking out ahead).
I don't use the rear blinds, panoramic sunroof, or rear entertainment, but perhaps there are those that would find them useful
Edited by Equus on Saturday 16th March 21:26
st4 said:
If you budget £3000 to £5000/yr to maintain the car properly you’ll be fine. You can’t run them cheaply. Don’t fall into the 40mpg trap. That’s what they do in fuel - not what they do in the garage. Labour costs, even specialists are not cheap and they’re complex and not well made. Lots to go wrong on the v6 and 7 speed, lots to go on the air suspension- they do rust like all Mercedes and bags of gadgets to crap out. Its not a car for someone who likes the easy hassle free life.
I’d buy a Lexus ls460 - nicer, more reliable, faster and quieter.
Mum bought a 3 year old s class in 2010. Had it 9 years now, into 6 figure mileage, zero issues outside the routine annual service.I’d buy a Lexus ls460 - nicer, more reliable, faster and quieter.
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
Edited by st4 on Friday 8th March 18:47
For balance I have been running an S600L Bi Turbo for some 11 years now 115k miles.
Averages 17 mpg. Most of its life maintained by Mercedes Benz. Recently the tandem pump
expired, Merc said... ooohh engine out £6500 to do!!! I said xxxxx xxf. I went to a specialist and
including all the front ABC pipes, pump and radiator,bits and bobs cost some £2000.
So if I average my costs over the last 6 years it would be less than £1000 per year.
It is also for sale in Piston Heads adds.
Mark
Averages 17 mpg. Most of its life maintained by Mercedes Benz. Recently the tandem pump
expired, Merc said... ooohh engine out £6500 to do!!! I said xxxxx xxf. I went to a specialist and
including all the front ABC pipes, pump and radiator,bits and bobs cost some £2000.
So if I average my costs over the last 6 years it would be less than £1000 per year.
It is also for sale in Piston Heads adds.
Mark
Hi OP,
I currently run a 2010 S350 CDI (since last May/June and done around 11000 miles in her, previously a w220 s320cdi around 12000 miles over a year), I would say go for it as apart from servicing (which I DIY as she's a keeper) the only things I have changed are the rear tyres (2 x Michelin Primacy 300 quid for the pair) and the Glow plug relay on the front of the engine which was around a £100 quid to buy and my time to fit.
I have had a few days doing 400+ miles but more so some days where my backside would be in the seat for upwards of 7 hours due to our lovely traffic and like the others have said the S class just lets you hop out with no ear/back ache or any sort of fatigue on your body - regardless of our lovely tailgating, lane swerving motorists it does cocoon you to the right level to make you not really give a s***t about all the other nonsense you encounter on our roads, you just plod along eating through the miles.
So definitely consider it - just be aware they COULD throw big bills but in my experience so far with 2 of them over two generations the costs have been negligible tbh considering how much depreciation would hit you if you bought a similarly priced new hatch.
Oh and just FYI if you are around my age (27) do be prepared for the 'oh nice car, is it your dads?' comments
I suppose the dolomite brown and wood steering wheel don't help 
but in general it receives positive comments from friends, neighbors and randoms which is nice considering the age of it.
Good luck in your search!
I currently run a 2010 S350 CDI (since last May/June and done around 11000 miles in her, previously a w220 s320cdi around 12000 miles over a year), I would say go for it as apart from servicing (which I DIY as she's a keeper) the only things I have changed are the rear tyres (2 x Michelin Primacy 300 quid for the pair) and the Glow plug relay on the front of the engine which was around a £100 quid to buy and my time to fit.
I have had a few days doing 400+ miles but more so some days where my backside would be in the seat for upwards of 7 hours due to our lovely traffic and like the others have said the S class just lets you hop out with no ear/back ache or any sort of fatigue on your body - regardless of our lovely tailgating, lane swerving motorists it does cocoon you to the right level to make you not really give a s***t about all the other nonsense you encounter on our roads, you just plod along eating through the miles.
So definitely consider it - just be aware they COULD throw big bills but in my experience so far with 2 of them over two generations the costs have been negligible tbh considering how much depreciation would hit you if you bought a similarly priced new hatch.
Oh and just FYI if you are around my age (27) do be prepared for the 'oh nice car, is it your dads?' comments
I suppose the dolomite brown and wood steering wheel don't help but in general it receives positive comments from friends, neighbors and randoms which is nice considering the age of it.Good luck in your search!
Edited by SlimK on Monday 18th March 12:04
Thank you for all your comments. The search is on. Only extras I really want is the panoramic roof. Don't really want black and ideally something other than a black interior so that discounts quite a few. The specialist MB place I use is fantastic and this together with lowish usage should keep running costs under control. I'm in no rush so just need to find the right car.
jw01 said:
...ideally something other than a black interior.
Before my current car (which is black interior), I had a W221 S350 CDI with a cream interior. The leather actually wore really well (which is more than can be said for the cream leather in my Range Rover), but be aware that it stains like an absolute bd with the dye from clothes. Never figured out why - I've never had a car that suffered as badly.Dove grey interior might be a good compromise, if you don't like black.
I ran a W221 over 2 years and put on over 40k miles. Bought at 32k miles
Maintains can be as cheap or as expensive as you want
My yearly cost was avrage 2k. Anything less and your not maintaing it correctly. These are big expensive cars. Utterly epic but anyone who says they cost minimal to upkeep is not looking after them correctly.
I didn't even have any "problems" so to speak, it was consumables: bushes, pads, disks, stuck calipers, etc all adds up.
Maintains can be as cheap or as expensive as you want
My yearly cost was avrage 2k. Anything less and your not maintaing it correctly. These are big expensive cars. Utterly epic but anyone who says they cost minimal to upkeep is not looking after them correctly.
I didn't even have any "problems" so to speak, it was consumables: bushes, pads, disks, stuck calipers, etc all adds up.
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