OM642 V6 CDI injectors, write off van?
Discussion
Hi there, have an '07 vito 120 van with the above engine. Its giving me trouble starting, can crank for 20 secs or more on a cold morning and when I went away for a fortnight I flattened the battery trying to start.
Trusted mechanic says he recons injectors, £2k+ job, but he can't test them (piezo brand). Another mechanic says £800 to remove and test, and yes north of £2k once replacements fitted.
Add to that it needs a glow plug which, as both mechanics say are pretty much guaranteed to snap off, its a longitudal engine that goes under the bulkhead so front of van off, engine out job. Big $.
Oh and the dpf is as far as we know fine, but the hose that attaches to it is broke and you cant get a replacement part, without buying the whole dpf.
And various other issues. Basically the van is not worth putting money into, even the running it into the ground option seems out as I need it somewhat reliable. And cranking a van for 30 secs every day at 7ish am and making clouds of smoke you'd think its on fire is... Un-neighborly.
So now I have to buy another diesel...ideally Id want another year out of it for the new touted hybrid van options to come on stream, I don't like chopping and changing vans as I need high security deadbolts fitted, racking etc, and being in the city diesels looking a poor long term investment.
I trust the mechanic but still I find myself asking this can't be right, an 11 year old, 83k van is junk due to the massive cost of such routine tasks?
Trusted mechanic says he recons injectors, £2k+ job, but he can't test them (piezo brand). Another mechanic says £800 to remove and test, and yes north of £2k once replacements fitted.
Add to that it needs a glow plug which, as both mechanics say are pretty much guaranteed to snap off, its a longitudal engine that goes under the bulkhead so front of van off, engine out job. Big $.
Oh and the dpf is as far as we know fine, but the hose that attaches to it is broke and you cant get a replacement part, without buying the whole dpf.
And various other issues. Basically the van is not worth putting money into, even the running it into the ground option seems out as I need it somewhat reliable. And cranking a van for 30 secs every day at 7ish am and making clouds of smoke you'd think its on fire is... Un-neighborly.
So now I have to buy another diesel...ideally Id want another year out of it for the new touted hybrid van options to come on stream, I don't like chopping and changing vans as I need high security deadbolts fitted, racking etc, and being in the city diesels looking a poor long term investment.
I trust the mechanic but still I find myself asking this can't be right, an 11 year old, 83k van is junk due to the massive cost of such routine tasks?
Are either mechanics Merc specialists?
My previous car was a Volvo V70 and it developed terrible cold starting problems. The car had been to two mechanics who couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, over quite a period of time. I took it to the local Volvo specialist garage. They phoned me within 30 minutes of leaving it off to say they'd diagnosed the problem.
Might be worth getting the opinion of a specialist garage as they might know to look at control modules or other things mentioned above.
My previous car was a Volvo V70 and it developed terrible cold starting problems. The car had been to two mechanics who couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, over quite a period of time. I took it to the local Volvo specialist garage. They phoned me within 30 minutes of leaving it off to say they'd diagnosed the problem.
Might be worth getting the opinion of a specialist garage as they might know to look at control modules or other things mentioned above.
Neither are merc specialists. Maybe I should cross post on some merc forums. My mechanic is very knowledgable and the 2nd opinion was from a diesel engine specialist.
One problem is the v6 is very rare and the piezo brand injectors are very rare in the v6 - even merc people don't see them often is my understanding. You have to laugh - I bought this to replace a jap grey import that I loved, but I was having starting issues with and finding knowledgable and willing mechanics an issue, so bought a sensible European van to replace it.
I'm happy to have someone specialised look over it over, if anyone has any ideas or recomendations of someone not a ridiculous long way from north London.
One problem is the v6 is very rare and the piezo brand injectors are very rare in the v6 - even merc people don't see them often is my understanding. You have to laugh - I bought this to replace a jap grey import that I loved, but I was having starting issues with and finding knowledgable and willing mechanics an issue, so bought a sensible European van to replace it.
I'm happy to have someone specialised look over it over, if anyone has any ideas or recomendations of someone not a ridiculous long way from north London.
I was out on the sauce last night when I replied. Having re-read the post, I defo think it's the glow plug control module. Checking Google you can get one for less the 100 quid.
My old jeep suffered the same issues. Took ages to start then a big plume of smoke once it's finally coughed into life.
It was the control module. Once it was changed it would fire up on the button.
The 3.0 CRD V6 is a fairly common engine used in loads of different vehicles.
My old jeep suffered the same issues. Took ages to start then a big plume of smoke once it's finally coughed into life.
It was the control module. Once it was changed it would fire up on the button.
The 3.0 CRD V6 is a fairly common engine used in loads of different vehicles.
The problem is the injectors are the most likely culprit, as if they let by the common rail doesn't build enough pressure to enable starting and the only way to confirm is the removal and testing (£800alone /£2k with replacement)
this is my understanding but I'm far from knowledgeable on this. I suppose there could be another component in the fuel delivery system that's starving fuel before the common rail, but fuel is definitely going into the cylinders because clouds of smoke come out when it does start (van is otherwise very clean running and clean starting before this)
this is my understanding but I'm far from knowledgeable on this. I suppose there could be another component in the fuel delivery system that's starving fuel before the common rail, but fuel is definitely going into the cylinders because clouds of smoke come out when it does start (van is otherwise very clean running and clean starting before this)
Worth chatting to a Bosch specialist
I used Shaun Arkenshaw in Yate to check out our Mazda injectors.
IIRC £700 to fully check and adjust all of them.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM BACK IN THE SAME CYLINDER
Each injector has a 16 digit C2I code to tell the ECU how to correct it.
Mix them up without telling the ECU and you can have all sorts of issues
I used Shaun Arkenshaw in Yate to check out our Mazda injectors.
IIRC £700 to fully check and adjust all of them.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM BACK IN THE SAME CYLINDER
Each injector has a 16 digit C2I code to tell the ECU how to correct it.
Mix them up without telling the ECU and you can have all sorts of issues
I think your barking up the wrong tree with the injectors. Glow plugs and or controller.
https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
Terzo123 said:
I think your barking up the wrong tree with the injectors. Glow plugs and or controller.
https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
Easy to confirm with an injectors leak off test and a test light. https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
Jazzy Jag said:
Worth chatting to a Bosch specialist
I used Shaun Arkenshaw in Yate to check out our Mazda injectors.
IIRC £700 to fully check and adjust all of them.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM BACK IN THE SAME CYLINDER
Each injector has a 16 digit C2I code to tell the ECU how to correct it.
Mix them up without telling the ECU and you can have all sorts of issues
similar to what I've been quoted. Lot of money for someone to either tell you yes, its funk and not worth fixing, or no, but you still have a dodgy van. Vans prolly only worth £3k or so running.I used Shaun Arkenshaw in Yate to check out our Mazda injectors.
IIRC £700 to fully check and adjust all of them.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM BACK IN THE SAME CYLINDER
Each injector has a 16 digit C2I code to tell the ECU how to correct it.
Mix them up without telling the ECU and you can have all sorts of issues
Terzo123 said:
I think your barking up the wrong tree with the injectors. Glow plugs and or controller.
https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
my mechanic says the glow plugs aren't very important with starting on these engines, more getting to running temp quickly for emissions, and many mercs are carrying duff plugs. His test indicated one was duff.https://m.buycarparts.co.uk/beru/7616464?gshp=1&am...
http://jeep-club.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5637
It is a common issue with these engines. But generally a fairly cheap and easy fix.
I'd maybe speak to another mechanic if I were you.
It is a common issue with these engines. But generally a fairly cheap and easy fix.
I'd maybe speak to another mechanic if I were you.
Terzo123 said:
http://jeep-club.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5637
It is a common issue with these engines. But generally a fairly cheap and easy fix.
I'd maybe speak to another mechanic if I were you.
does the tank stuff use the OM642? I thought they used older generation engines that are more reliant on glow plugs. But yes ill get it checked.It is a common issue with these engines. But generally a fairly cheap and easy fix.
I'd maybe speak to another mechanic if I were you.
Spoke to mechnic, he knows someone who should have merc star machine.
Many thanks for ongoing help.
Teddy Lop said:
my mechanic says the glow plugs aren't very important with starting on these engines, more getting to running temp quickly for emissions, and many mercs are carrying duff plugs. His test indicated one was duff.
Your mecahnic is wrong.The straight 6 didnt really need glow plugs.
The V6 most certainly does. I have one and my issue was the glow plug controller.
I also had a straight 6, and only 1 glow plug was any good, but it started OK
Thanks for all the help
So I got a Mercedes specialist to put his diag on it.
He tells me he has glow plug faults on cyl 5&6, which could be either plug or a relay, and a fault logged but not present on the controller. What he can't do is what I wanted, which is to diognostically simulate what the thing does at cold start. Now he wants to start by changing the glow plugs, and while I accept the need I'm not convinced 2 plugs down is the main culprit and I want to put a price on that before pouring any serious money into this old van.
If I stick a clamp ammeter on the battery and turn key to pre warm at cold start, I should have super high current even with only 4 working, or if the glow controller is not supplying current to any plugs then there's not much else that'll be drawing much current at all, am I right?
So I got a Mercedes specialist to put his diag on it.
He tells me he has glow plug faults on cyl 5&6, which could be either plug or a relay, and a fault logged but not present on the controller. What he can't do is what I wanted, which is to diognostically simulate what the thing does at cold start. Now he wants to start by changing the glow plugs, and while I accept the need I'm not convinced 2 plugs down is the main culprit and I want to put a price on that before pouring any serious money into this old van.
If I stick a clamp ammeter on the battery and turn key to pre warm at cold start, I should have super high current even with only 4 working, or if the glow controller is not supplying current to any plugs then there's not much else that'll be drawing much current at all, am I right?
Just to check, the engine runs ok after it's started up for the fist time on a morning cold start?
And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
Miglia 888 said:
Just to check, the engine runs ok after it's started up for the fist time on a morning cold start?
And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
Yes, and the colder it is the less it wants to start. My gut says buy the part.And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
My head says you've had two people who both know more than you look at the thing and suggest something else first. BUT. As sparky I'm well aware of the aggro and pitfalls of people who go read a bit of something on the internet, and then they known AAAALLLLLL about it so much I can't even.
Im thinking I'm going to measure the amps tomorrow and if they're mega low, order the part. What amps does a plug pull?
Teddy Lop said:
Miglia 888 said:
Just to check, the engine runs ok after it's started up for the fist time on a morning cold start?
And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
Yes, and the colder it is the less it wants to start. My gut says buy the part.And it starts up again ok later on the same day?
If so, we had the same symptoms with our 2007 C320CDI, and it was indeed just a faulty glow-plug relay module as previously suggested.
There was enough residual warmth left in the engine to start up again ok later on the same day, but after sitting overnight, it would take loads of cranking before starting from cold next morning.
DTC error code was this : P0670 - Glowplug relay module
Parts cost was £156inc. vat from MB Genuine parts at the time.
HTH.
My head says you've had two people who both know more than you look at the thing and suggest something else first. BUT. As sparky I'm well aware of the aggro and pitfalls of people who go read a bit of something on the internet, and then they known AAAALLLLLL about it so much I can't even.
Im thinking I'm going to measure the amps tomorrow and if they're mega low, order the part. What amps does a plug pull?
Glowplugs failing on these engines are very common, but they don't all have to be working to get the car started on cold mornings
If the glowplug relay controller module is U/S as it sounds (and this IS a common problem with this engine - our 2006 R320CDI also had the exact same problem too, and the exact same cure...) then the glowplugs won't be getting any amps and the engine will take ages to start on cold days. But it will start ok all through the summer when the ambient temperature overnight is warm enough that you don't need any pre-heating, even for the first start of the day.
Any Mercedes specialist worth their salt should be very familiar with both the symptoms you're having for this common engine problem, and the cure.
Any cheap OBD code reader should be able to confirm the fault code(s).
I'd confirm the exact error code(s) you have. If you've got DTC error code P0670 amongst them, replace the glowplug relay module before wasting any time & money on anything else - with a working glowplug module, it'll start up fine, even with a few dead glowplugs. HTH.
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