C63 Vs 997 Ownership...
Discussion
My thoughts on swapping from a 911 to a C63 Coupe. (Well I'm cheating a bit here, I had a 997 3 years ago and then moved to an X5. But that's not such a good tag line is it)...
I was asked recently what I though about my swap from a 997C2S to a C63 Coupe so I thought I would share my experiences so far….
First a bit of background, I am a complete caraholic. It is my addiction and so to that ends I have tried/owned just about every kind of fast car available for the last 15 years. My favourite cars have been both my 911’s, a 993 and a 997. Both were good looking, fast, well made and an “event” every time I turned the key.
So times changed, I got married, had two children and my cars changed too. My 997 was sold about 3 years ago and swapped to a 320D Coupe and an X5. However, recently I was able to start looking for a new “toy” to blast to work and back in. My needs are still a bit different from my single days of car ownership but ultimately I wanted a car with 4 seats and a sense of drama. The new 991 was on the list but honestly was a bit more than I wanted to spend. GTR looked interesting (I have driven one but not owned one), but after thinking hard I decided that for me it was just too boy racer, (lots of people will disagree but for me it just didn’t gel) and the ones in my budget just had too many miles/owners.
Then I found a nearly year old AMG C63 Coupe. I have seen them before but never really paid them much notice because they are so expensive to run and auto only. I have had a few DSG type boxes (and an SMG in my M3CSL) and frankly hated them. Every car I owned with an auto box just drove me nuts. However, my time with the X5 (and hence why I mentioned it) taught me that a good box could actually be fun. The 8 speed in the new X5s is a master piece and if you chip your X5 it can make it a really fun car, (and carry the dog and children). So I arranged a test drive and bought it there and then.
Firstly, how the C63 looks. It is mean, the kind of mean that looks like a massive body builder in a DJ kind of mean. You know, he looks smart but you just would not want to mess with him. Mine has the 19” AMD multi spokes (in black) and they really add to the look of the car. I wanted a silver car because I wanted subtle, (yeah okay, subtle-ish) and the silver with the glass roof and black wheels looks fantastic. I don’t think it’s as good looking as a 911 but more velvet hammer kind of handsome, it works.
Then there is the engine. Holy cow, that V8 6.2 is a work of art. It’s a whole different character to the flat 6 in a Porsche. Is it better? Not sure, just different. I don’t care what the numbers say, I bet you good money nothing this side of a 500bhp supercar will stay with an C63 from 40 to 100. It is outrageous and so much fun over 3000 rpm, (did I mention it revs to about 7000 rpm)? The harder you push it the better it gets. If you drive a Porsche (or any good sports car) you will get the engine.
Gear box. Okay this one worried me a lot (as I have gone off cars because I hated the gearbox). The MCT in the AMG is very good (not perfect but good). I drive most the time in manual because I just like it, no other reason than that. The auto is good around town or tight parking, but for me I like to feel the control of using the box, so I stick to manual. You have to manually select this every time you start the car (like all auto/manual boxes I think). I wish MB would allow me to start in manual mode but there you go. The downshift is OK, the blip from 4th to 3rd is almost addictive but you can’t multi select gears. For example, if I’m in 6th and I want 4th I have to wait until 5th has been selected and engaged, then click the paddle for 4th. In reality it’s very fast but if you are used to hitting the gear selector really fast it’s a re-learning process waiting for the gearbox to catch up.
Chassis. For me the 911 has the best poise of any road car. Its balance and control is matched by the feedback you get from the steering. The C63 is massive and you will feel the weight but its body control is really good, you can feel the road and when pushed hard it grips hard. Not sure it is 911 levels of feedback but it is good.
Now the bad stuff…. Rattles. I have never had a car that rattles and squeaks like the C63. There are so many it is going back next week to have the interior taken apart to find them. Speakers, the standard ones are so bad it is almost unbelievable Mercedes would fit such a poor standard in any car let alone an AMG. Comand, frankly it is rubbish, if you have used the latest BMW iDrive (or the Porsche touch screen version) you will be left stumbling all over the place with the clumsy layout of the system in the Mercedes. Then there is the fact that iPhones will not power the online part of the Comand system. It seems Mercedes couldn’t be bothered to make it work. Jun 13 build cars will have a system that now works with iPhone but it is not yet clear if older cars will get an upgrade to make data over iPhone work. (Normal BT works very well, including SMS read).
So over all how does it compare with a 911? Well it’s more practical, has better midrange punch and I think the gearbox is better than the older PDK (just, but it might be that PDK has the edge on the track). I’ve not tracked the C63 yet but I would guess it would not be as pliable or as well balanced as a 911. I think that my tastes have changed over the years and that for me it is a better rounded tool than the 911. Would I take one over the 991? Not sure that I would, but the 991 is a lot more money…. And that brings me to one of the reasons I got a C63. I got a good deal, £41.5K on a 11 month old car. To my mind it was too good a deal to miss, that and I just love (love) the noise the engine makes.
So I guess once the 991 drops below £60k for a good one I might swap for one, but until then, see you out there in my C63.
Regards,
Tom.
I was asked recently what I though about my swap from a 997C2S to a C63 Coupe so I thought I would share my experiences so far….
First a bit of background, I am a complete caraholic. It is my addiction and so to that ends I have tried/owned just about every kind of fast car available for the last 15 years. My favourite cars have been both my 911’s, a 993 and a 997. Both were good looking, fast, well made and an “event” every time I turned the key.
So times changed, I got married, had two children and my cars changed too. My 997 was sold about 3 years ago and swapped to a 320D Coupe and an X5. However, recently I was able to start looking for a new “toy” to blast to work and back in. My needs are still a bit different from my single days of car ownership but ultimately I wanted a car with 4 seats and a sense of drama. The new 991 was on the list but honestly was a bit more than I wanted to spend. GTR looked interesting (I have driven one but not owned one), but after thinking hard I decided that for me it was just too boy racer, (lots of people will disagree but for me it just didn’t gel) and the ones in my budget just had too many miles/owners.
Then I found a nearly year old AMG C63 Coupe. I have seen them before but never really paid them much notice because they are so expensive to run and auto only. I have had a few DSG type boxes (and an SMG in my M3CSL) and frankly hated them. Every car I owned with an auto box just drove me nuts. However, my time with the X5 (and hence why I mentioned it) taught me that a good box could actually be fun. The 8 speed in the new X5s is a master piece and if you chip your X5 it can make it a really fun car, (and carry the dog and children). So I arranged a test drive and bought it there and then.
Firstly, how the C63 looks. It is mean, the kind of mean that looks like a massive body builder in a DJ kind of mean. You know, he looks smart but you just would not want to mess with him. Mine has the 19” AMD multi spokes (in black) and they really add to the look of the car. I wanted a silver car because I wanted subtle, (yeah okay, subtle-ish) and the silver with the glass roof and black wheels looks fantastic. I don’t think it’s as good looking as a 911 but more velvet hammer kind of handsome, it works.
Then there is the engine. Holy cow, that V8 6.2 is a work of art. It’s a whole different character to the flat 6 in a Porsche. Is it better? Not sure, just different. I don’t care what the numbers say, I bet you good money nothing this side of a 500bhp supercar will stay with an C63 from 40 to 100. It is outrageous and so much fun over 3000 rpm, (did I mention it revs to about 7000 rpm)? The harder you push it the better it gets. If you drive a Porsche (or any good sports car) you will get the engine.
Gear box. Okay this one worried me a lot (as I have gone off cars because I hated the gearbox). The MCT in the AMG is very good (not perfect but good). I drive most the time in manual because I just like it, no other reason than that. The auto is good around town or tight parking, but for me I like to feel the control of using the box, so I stick to manual. You have to manually select this every time you start the car (like all auto/manual boxes I think). I wish MB would allow me to start in manual mode but there you go. The downshift is OK, the blip from 4th to 3rd is almost addictive but you can’t multi select gears. For example, if I’m in 6th and I want 4th I have to wait until 5th has been selected and engaged, then click the paddle for 4th. In reality it’s very fast but if you are used to hitting the gear selector really fast it’s a re-learning process waiting for the gearbox to catch up.
Chassis. For me the 911 has the best poise of any road car. Its balance and control is matched by the feedback you get from the steering. The C63 is massive and you will feel the weight but its body control is really good, you can feel the road and when pushed hard it grips hard. Not sure it is 911 levels of feedback but it is good.
Now the bad stuff…. Rattles. I have never had a car that rattles and squeaks like the C63. There are so many it is going back next week to have the interior taken apart to find them. Speakers, the standard ones are so bad it is almost unbelievable Mercedes would fit such a poor standard in any car let alone an AMG. Comand, frankly it is rubbish, if you have used the latest BMW iDrive (or the Porsche touch screen version) you will be left stumbling all over the place with the clumsy layout of the system in the Mercedes. Then there is the fact that iPhones will not power the online part of the Comand system. It seems Mercedes couldn’t be bothered to make it work. Jun 13 build cars will have a system that now works with iPhone but it is not yet clear if older cars will get an upgrade to make data over iPhone work. (Normal BT works very well, including SMS read).
So over all how does it compare with a 911? Well it’s more practical, has better midrange punch and I think the gearbox is better than the older PDK (just, but it might be that PDK has the edge on the track). I’ve not tracked the C63 yet but I would guess it would not be as pliable or as well balanced as a 911. I think that my tastes have changed over the years and that for me it is a better rounded tool than the 911. Would I take one over the 991? Not sure that I would, but the 991 is a lot more money…. And that brings me to one of the reasons I got a C63. I got a good deal, £41.5K on a 11 month old car. To my mind it was too good a deal to miss, that and I just love (love) the noise the engine makes.
So I guess once the 991 drops below £60k for a good one I might swap for one, but until then, see you out there in my C63.
Regards,
Tom.
Edited by findtomdotcom on Wednesday 2nd October 22:14
I've also had both (A 997 C4S Cab and currently a C63 AMG PPP Estate) but to be honest I had never thought of comparing them, they are so different in intent and design (and I'll blog on about anything) I'd echo your comments on squeaks, mine has also got a squeaky dash board to the extent that I am thinking of taking it in after on 6 months to get it sorted. The gearbox is (just) acceptable. It's not perfect by any measure, I miss the DSG on my Audi S4.
I find the CONTROL thing better than the BMW idrive (Which drove me to distraction), but not as good as the Audi MMI, I guess is all depends what cars you grew up with.
The engine is of course what it is all about. Nobody will ever be daft enough to put a 6.2 litre engine in a small exec estate/saloon car. It does make me laugh when tailgaters on motorways just disappear when you unleash it.
Would I have another 911? Maybe, but you'd need another practical car too, which a C63 almost is.
I find the CONTROL thing better than the BMW idrive (Which drove me to distraction), but not as good as the Audi MMI, I guess is all depends what cars you grew up with.
The engine is of course what it is all about. Nobody will ever be daft enough to put a 6.2 litre engine in a small exec estate/saloon car. It does make me laugh when tailgaters on motorways just disappear when you unleash it.
Would I have another 911? Maybe, but you'd need another practical car too, which a C63 almost is.
Yes the SMS works (read only), you need at least iOS 6. Go to your BT area (on the phone) then hit the blue arrow on the MB Bluetooth bit. You will see the normal "Forget this Device" and under it will be "Show Notifications" and "Sync Contacts". Hit both and you are good to go. You might need to be connected to the car to see these options for the first time?
Hope it helps.
Tom.
Hope it helps.
Tom.
Bradders901 said:
Yes, good read - thanks Tom. When I get my c63 I will still have my e92 M3 for a while so I will definitely compare them. Little bit worried about rattles as have read that a few times - I do not have a single one on my M3 (2011 car).
Dunc
Bradders, just for information, mine has no rattles what so ever. I know a lot of people on here have reported them, but as with everything on the web, only the bad is mentioned.Dunc
911C2S said:
Yes the SMS works (read only), you need at least iOS 6. Go to your BT area (on the phone) then hit the blue arrow on the MB Bluetooth bit. You will see the normal "Forget this Device" and under it will be "Show Notifications" and "Sync Contacts". Hit both and you are good to go. You might need to be connected to the car to see these options for the first time?
Hope it helps.
Tom.
Tom, thanks muchly. I asked at my local dealer and the young lady in the service department clearly had no idea, as all she said was that it was not compatible.Hope it helps.
Tom.
Now, works like a charm.
I am making a similar choice myself at the moment so it was interesting to read your comments.
I was going to get a manual 997 but for some reason it didn't excite me as much as I expected (I owned a 996 a few years ago and loved it) and I cant afford a 991. I recently owned a first gen XFR and really enjoyed that, got rid in the end because in anything other than dry roads the power just wasnt usable. Loved that it had all the toys, was comfortable and I could get the family in without too much of a drama.
Swapped that out after 8 months for a Cayenne Turbo and again it is an amazing car just not sure a 4x4 needs to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and for me is too much of a compromise between a sports car and a superb 4x4. Just not sure I 'get' it.
So I am thinking a C63 might be the answer, raw power, looks and sounds great, good handling and I can get the family in. Will go and check one out this week along with the facelift XFR as I love the looks and apparently they have sorted some of the traction issues out.
I just think for the time being that the 997 isnt for me which makes me sad as I am struggling to find something special within my mid to late £30's budget. And I need to stop swapping my cars out as its getting bloody expensive!!
I was going to get a manual 997 but for some reason it didn't excite me as much as I expected (I owned a 996 a few years ago and loved it) and I cant afford a 991. I recently owned a first gen XFR and really enjoyed that, got rid in the end because in anything other than dry roads the power just wasnt usable. Loved that it had all the toys, was comfortable and I could get the family in without too much of a drama.
Swapped that out after 8 months for a Cayenne Turbo and again it is an amazing car just not sure a 4x4 needs to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and for me is too much of a compromise between a sports car and a superb 4x4. Just not sure I 'get' it.
So I am thinking a C63 might be the answer, raw power, looks and sounds great, good handling and I can get the family in. Will go and check one out this week along with the facelift XFR as I love the looks and apparently they have sorted some of the traction issues out.
I just think for the time being that the 997 isnt for me which makes me sad as I am struggling to find something special within my mid to late £30's budget. And I need to stop swapping my cars out as its getting bloody expensive!!
Great write up and thanks for that!
Interesting what you said about the interior - that sort of stuff puts me off a car. Having had a look at a few, is yours what they call edition 125? the interior seems a lot better put together in those than the slightly older ones which look shockingly plasticy for the sort of car it is.
Noted on the sound system too... With 911s the 996 standard sound was terrible and Bose or Porsche sounds system was a must. But with the 997.2 I have to say I don't see much point in paying for the upgrade as the standard system with PCM is excellent. I had sort of assumed all cars had gone this way as my Audi is also excellent in standard spec.
I am worried that with the GTS being so excellent (I have had 2x996C2, 2x996T, 2x997C2S, 997.2C2PDK and now the 997.2GTS and the GTS is by far the best I have owned) I will get a C63 and within 6 months be looking to get back in a 911.
Interesting what you said about the interior - that sort of stuff puts me off a car. Having had a look at a few, is yours what they call edition 125? the interior seems a lot better put together in those than the slightly older ones which look shockingly plasticy for the sort of car it is.
Noted on the sound system too... With 911s the 996 standard sound was terrible and Bose or Porsche sounds system was a must. But with the 997.2 I have to say I don't see much point in paying for the upgrade as the standard system with PCM is excellent. I had sort of assumed all cars had gone this way as my Audi is also excellent in standard spec.
I am worried that with the GTS being so excellent (I have had 2x996C2, 2x996T, 2x997C2S, 997.2C2PDK and now the 997.2GTS and the GTS is by far the best I have owned) I will get a C63 and within 6 months be looking to get back in a 911.
The slow downshifts in manual is why I've come to the conclusion you are better in S+. When you floor it it will downshift immediately to whatever gear you want, I.e 6th to 3rd - just so much more responsive than in M, you can get everything done quicker.
As for the rattles, I agree, terrible it is.
As for the rattles, I agree, terrible it is.
I hear you, yes mine is an Edition 125 (no idea what difference it makes over a normal car). I’m not sure a C63 will match the handling or feed back of a GTS but…. It is an event and the brilliant engine will entertain in much the same way on daily drives. If you track your car I suspect, (and it is just a guess) that the 911 would rule and you would miss it. But honestly a test drive will make your mind up, I knew once I pressed the load peddle I would buy it.
I too am really bothered by rattles and squeaks, I can’t stand them. The car is already back at MB and I have a new ML while they do there thing. However, I really miss my C63, so read into that what you will.
I’m now looking to change my speakers, I will post soon on a few forums asking for advice on size/type of replacements. I hear Morel are really good so I’ll see where that takes me, but truly if you like music you will need to replace the speakers.
I too am really bothered by rattles and squeaks, I can’t stand them. The car is already back at MB and I have a new ML while they do there thing. However, I really miss my C63, so read into that what you will.
I’m now looking to change my speakers, I will post soon on a few forums asking for advice on size/type of replacements. I hear Morel are really good so I’ll see where that takes me, but truly if you like music you will need to replace the speakers.
The Editon 125 seems to be 2010 model cars onwards and have the integrated nav screen and much more modern and better looking dashboard layout. The 09 and earlier cars look much more plasticy with the pop out nav screen etc.
My initial thoughts were the old ones are likely to be rattly etc. so it is disappointing to hear the new ones are too.
My initial thoughts were the old ones are likely to be rattly etc. so it is disappointing to hear the new ones are too.
MrTickle said:
The Editon 125 seems to be 2010 model cars onwards and have the integrated nav screen and much more modern and better looking dashboard layout.
Just so you know the only difference was you got free nav and COMAND. As far as I recall since the facelift, they were standard on the C63 antway. marky1 said:
The slow downshifts in manual is why I've come to the conclusion you are better in S+. When you floor it it will downshift immediately to whatever gear you want, I.e 6th to 3rd - just so much more responsive than in M, you can get everything done quicker.
As for the rattles, I agree, terrible it is.
You know you can just hold the paddle down at it will skip gears? As for the rattles, I agree, terrible it is.
Zanderman said:
I am making a similar choice myself at the moment so it was interesting to read your comments.
I was going to get a manual 997 but for some reason it didn't excite me as much as I expected (I owned a 996 a few years ago and loved it) and I cant afford a 991. I recently owned a first gen XFR and really enjoyed that, got rid in the end because in anything other than dry roads the power just wasnt usable. Loved that it had all the toys, was comfortable and I could get the family in without too much of a drama.
Swapped that out after 8 months for a Cayenne Turbo and again it is an amazing car just not sure a 4x4 needs to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and for me is too much of a compromise between a sports car and a superb 4x4. Just not sure I 'get' it.
So I am thinking a C63 might be the answer, raw power, looks and sounds great, good handling and I can get the family in. Will go and check one out this week along with the facelift XFR as I love the looks and apparently they have sorted some of the traction issues out.
I just think for the time being that the 997 isnt for me which makes me sad as I am struggling to find something special within my mid to late £30's budget. And I need to stop swapping my cars out as its getting bloody expensive!!
I've always wanted a Carrera since I was a kid, but by the time I could afford one, the kids arrived and it was no longer a practical option at this stage of my life.I was going to get a manual 997 but for some reason it didn't excite me as much as I expected (I owned a 996 a few years ago and loved it) and I cant afford a 991. I recently owned a first gen XFR and really enjoyed that, got rid in the end because in anything other than dry roads the power just wasnt usable. Loved that it had all the toys, was comfortable and I could get the family in without too much of a drama.
Swapped that out after 8 months for a Cayenne Turbo and again it is an amazing car just not sure a 4x4 needs to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and for me is too much of a compromise between a sports car and a superb 4x4. Just not sure I 'get' it.
So I am thinking a C63 might be the answer, raw power, looks and sounds great, good handling and I can get the family in. Will go and check one out this week along with the facelift XFR as I love the looks and apparently they have sorted some of the traction issues out.
I just think for the time being that the 997 isnt for me which makes me sad as I am struggling to find something special within my mid to late £30's budget. And I need to stop swapping my cars out as its getting bloody expensive!!
For that reason, I went and bought myself a Cayenne Turbo which I recently sold but kept for almost 4 years. It is not a cheap vehicle to run, but is very powerful and capable. I could only muster 15mpg from the Cayenne, but given the weight and performance of the vehicle, I thought it was pretty good.
Like you however, I did not 'get' the Cayenne either, I know exactly what you mean. I'm not convinced anymore that such power is required in a large 4x4. I did think that a diesel engine in such a vehicle would be more than sufficient, and if I do buy another large 4x4, it will have a diesel engine in it.
I could not see what to replace it with either, then one day I saw a C63 saloon blast past me, and remembered they existed. I've always toyed with possibly owning one, so put my order in for one a month ago with an October delivery date.
Brilliant write up 911C2S.
I've also owned loads of different fast cars (M3s, Audi RS and several 911s)
I've just gone from a 997C4S to a C63 Coupe, and agree with pretty much all of your observations.
On the subject of the gearbox, It's great in Sport+, but a little lazy, I might even say, disobedient, in manual.
Looks wise, yes, looks awesome. Mine's diamond white with the black multi spoke alloys. I'm fairly happy with the COMAND system, and the audio system is great (HK option). Of course the car is really all about the engine, which is, frankly, outstanding. Whoever came up with the idea of shoe horning a 6.2, 450+ BHP V8 into a small coupe, is clearly insane. It feels very quick compared to the 997, particularly in the mid range.
Issues ?
Dynamically, it isn't a patch on the 997, but once you're used to it, it can be hussled along at a pretty fair pace. For me, the biggest issue is traction. It simply doesn't have any !!! It's actually quite hard to pull out of a junction on anything more than the smallest of throttle openings without the TC light going into meltdown. Mine doesn't have the OPTIONAL merc LSD, and this, IMHO is a criminal ommission by Mercedes. So much so, that I'm seriously considering a trip to Birds, to get a Quaife, Torsen LSD fited.
Overall, this is another box ticked in terms of quick car ownership, but I too will be in a 991 once the prices become reasonable.
I've also owned loads of different fast cars (M3s, Audi RS and several 911s)
I've just gone from a 997C4S to a C63 Coupe, and agree with pretty much all of your observations.
On the subject of the gearbox, It's great in Sport+, but a little lazy, I might even say, disobedient, in manual.
Looks wise, yes, looks awesome. Mine's diamond white with the black multi spoke alloys. I'm fairly happy with the COMAND system, and the audio system is great (HK option). Of course the car is really all about the engine, which is, frankly, outstanding. Whoever came up with the idea of shoe horning a 6.2, 450+ BHP V8 into a small coupe, is clearly insane. It feels very quick compared to the 997, particularly in the mid range.
Issues ?
Dynamically, it isn't a patch on the 997, but once you're used to it, it can be hussled along at a pretty fair pace. For me, the biggest issue is traction. It simply doesn't have any !!! It's actually quite hard to pull out of a junction on anything more than the smallest of throttle openings without the TC light going into meltdown. Mine doesn't have the OPTIONAL merc LSD, and this, IMHO is a criminal ommission by Mercedes. So much so, that I'm seriously considering a trip to Birds, to get a Quaife, Torsen LSD fited.
Overall, this is another box ticked in terms of quick car ownership, but I too will be in a 991 once the prices become reasonable.
Hi
I agree, good write up, I went from a tweaked RS4 to a 997 Turbo to my current C63 estate, 3 cars I have loved in different ways.
The Porsche for me was only truly brilliant when I was pushing on and you are at silly speeds very quickly. Amazing but just a bit much in the end, driving anything less than ten tenths it just didn't work so well. The C63 though, I just need to start it up and I'm already grinning! I don't drive it like the Porsche, it doesn't give me the urge to push on, I'm actually quite happy just bimbling away listening to it. There is plenty of punch when needed though as already said.
Both great cars, both for almost opposite reasons for me.
Enjoy what you have!
Mat
I agree, good write up, I went from a tweaked RS4 to a 997 Turbo to my current C63 estate, 3 cars I have loved in different ways.
The Porsche for me was only truly brilliant when I was pushing on and you are at silly speeds very quickly. Amazing but just a bit much in the end, driving anything less than ten tenths it just didn't work so well. The C63 though, I just need to start it up and I'm already grinning! I don't drive it like the Porsche, it doesn't give me the urge to push on, I'm actually quite happy just bimbling away listening to it. There is plenty of punch when needed though as already said.
Both great cars, both for almost opposite reasons for me.
Enjoy what you have!
Mat
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