Discussion
Per my other post of a few days ago, I'm seriously considering replacing my '89 300TE with a very nice looking '96 E320T - however another option has come to mind and I'm wondering what the PH advice might be.
At the minute we have a Citroen C1, the 300TE and a BMW E30 325i. We do a total of less than 7000 miles per year between us, and over 70% of this is done in the C1, meaning that the W124 and E30 do less than 2000 p.a. between them.
Lately this has started getting on my wick, because I literally spend more time cleaning & maintaining the W124 and E30 than I do actually driving them. That's not an exaggeration. Also, after having 2 cars keyed in the past 3 years (by I suspect the same worthless scumbag) I'm no longer prepared to park anything on the street, hence the driveway is a bit 'congested' and I'm forever having to shuffle cars around, which is another PITA.
So - a reduction of the fleet to just 2 cars is now inevitable. Unfortunately the other half has become attached to the C1 so even if I can persuade her to part with it it (even though I bought it!) it will have to replaced with something easy to drive, relatively small and an absolute max of 3 years old (she's developed a taste for luxuries recently, like newish cars!).
A simple decision I thought. Get rid of the BMW and replace the 300TE the best W124 estate I can find. Obvious.
BUT - going down that route means that I'm stuck with a W124 estate as my 'classic' as we need something big enough for 2 dogs. Many worse things to be stuck with than a good W124 I hear you cry, and you're right, but I want to have the flexibility of having a succession of interesting cars or 'young classics' - which is why we ended up with 3 cars in the 1st place.
So - another option is to replace the C1 with something that's just big enough for the dogs but small enough for her to be happy driving around town in and & economical enough to use every day. I'm thinking 2009/10 Honda Jazz for example.
Then the 2nd car could be whatever I want it to be. Another car I'm keen on trying soon is a 190E, ideally a 2.6, but more likely a 2.0 auto.
Now I've finally arrived at the point of this post (sorry for the ramble) which is - how does a W201 compare in terms of build quality, comfort and ride quality to a W124? Can it be regarded as 90% of the W124 in a smaller package, or is the W124 in a different class?
Over to you guys.
At the minute we have a Citroen C1, the 300TE and a BMW E30 325i. We do a total of less than 7000 miles per year between us, and over 70% of this is done in the C1, meaning that the W124 and E30 do less than 2000 p.a. between them.
Lately this has started getting on my wick, because I literally spend more time cleaning & maintaining the W124 and E30 than I do actually driving them. That's not an exaggeration. Also, after having 2 cars keyed in the past 3 years (by I suspect the same worthless scumbag) I'm no longer prepared to park anything on the street, hence the driveway is a bit 'congested' and I'm forever having to shuffle cars around, which is another PITA.
So - a reduction of the fleet to just 2 cars is now inevitable. Unfortunately the other half has become attached to the C1 so even if I can persuade her to part with it it (even though I bought it!) it will have to replaced with something easy to drive, relatively small and an absolute max of 3 years old (she's developed a taste for luxuries recently, like newish cars!).
A simple decision I thought. Get rid of the BMW and replace the 300TE the best W124 estate I can find. Obvious.
BUT - going down that route means that I'm stuck with a W124 estate as my 'classic' as we need something big enough for 2 dogs. Many worse things to be stuck with than a good W124 I hear you cry, and you're right, but I want to have the flexibility of having a succession of interesting cars or 'young classics' - which is why we ended up with 3 cars in the 1st place.
So - another option is to replace the C1 with something that's just big enough for the dogs but small enough for her to be happy driving around town in and & economical enough to use every day. I'm thinking 2009/10 Honda Jazz for example.
Then the 2nd car could be whatever I want it to be. Another car I'm keen on trying soon is a 190E, ideally a 2.6, but more likely a 2.0 auto.
Now I've finally arrived at the point of this post (sorry for the ramble) which is - how does a W201 compare in terms of build quality, comfort and ride quality to a W124? Can it be regarded as 90% of the W124 in a smaller package, or is the W124 in a different class?
Over to you guys.
I had a 1990 190E 2.5-16 then an 1995 E320 coupe in succession, and I would say the 190E was better built with a better quality of materials. A major factor however would be the decline in the quality of MB in general during the 90s though, so maybe not a fair comparison. The 190 was comfortable enough given it's sporting slant but not quite as comfortable as the 124. I would say a nice 190E 2.6 would be 95% the car of any 124 so I don't think you would be disappointed. The only thing I would say is that there is not nearly as much room in the back of a 190. Also, the aperature for the boot is quite small too as it doesn't open down to the bumper.
You can't go wrong getting a 190E 2.6 auto, truly great cars and are handier to use around town that a W124, better on juice and just as quick as the 300E. As for build quality there's nothing in it between them but I'd say the W124 has a slightly better driving position. I've got one for many years now, don't really use it enough but wouldn't sell it now. Just buy the very best you can, excellent cars are still available. If you can find a 'Sportline' all the better.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Friday 4th May 17:54
It's a good question and I am a bit conflicted in how to answer it!
W201s are great things and are criminally undervalued & neglected. The interiors are absolutely beautifully built and the cars are virtually bulletproof. But I don't think a W201 is a better car than a W124 estate. It might be better than a saloon - W201 2.6 vs W124 300E would be a heck of a battle - but the W201 will always lose to the comfort & ride of the estate. I've not driven a 190E with SLS so can't comment on those vs an estate
You feel the road more in a W201, and they are more chuckable. But I don't think the steering & suspension geometry suit UK roads as well as a W124 which has a pliable ride, better noise isolation and is easier to navigate in town as you sit a bit higher. At higher speeds the difference is even more pronounced
There are specific things each car is better at. The gear ratios on the W201 are better-chosen than the W124. The gearing on the 2.6, in particular, is perfect. The downside is that the W201 is noisier at speed
The W124 is more comfortable but more remote and more boatlike. W124 feels like it weighs about 300 Kg more than a W201 - it doesn't. The W201 runs out of suspension travel earlier and tends to spin the inside rear wheel exiting junctions
The W201 lacks shoulder room in the front and the rear seats aren't very comfortable. The front seats look like W124 seats but don't support you as well. They are nearer the floor so you drive with your legs straighter. The steering wheel is too big and hits your thighs. The seat material in the later W201s is extraordinary stuff - if you had a sofa that old you'd have burnt it years ago, but you can find a 20-year old W201s with a perfect interior
W201s now all seem to need new top mounts and springs and the suspension on most I've driven recently feels tired
The front speakers on the W201 are diabolical, the W124s merely awful
Possibly the best 190E I've driven is a really bog-standard 1.8. If you lived in a seaside town in France or Spain a white 190E 1.8 with wind-up windows would be the perfect car. Sadly, in the UK with roads infested with aggressive idiots in 4x4s, Audis & company cars, I think it'd be out of its depth
Nick Froome
W201s are great things and are criminally undervalued & neglected. The interiors are absolutely beautifully built and the cars are virtually bulletproof. But I don't think a W201 is a better car than a W124 estate. It might be better than a saloon - W201 2.6 vs W124 300E would be a heck of a battle - but the W201 will always lose to the comfort & ride of the estate. I've not driven a 190E with SLS so can't comment on those vs an estate
You feel the road more in a W201, and they are more chuckable. But I don't think the steering & suspension geometry suit UK roads as well as a W124 which has a pliable ride, better noise isolation and is easier to navigate in town as you sit a bit higher. At higher speeds the difference is even more pronounced
There are specific things each car is better at. The gear ratios on the W201 are better-chosen than the W124. The gearing on the 2.6, in particular, is perfect. The downside is that the W201 is noisier at speed
The W124 is more comfortable but more remote and more boatlike. W124 feels like it weighs about 300 Kg more than a W201 - it doesn't. The W201 runs out of suspension travel earlier and tends to spin the inside rear wheel exiting junctions
The W201 lacks shoulder room in the front and the rear seats aren't very comfortable. The front seats look like W124 seats but don't support you as well. They are nearer the floor so you drive with your legs straighter. The steering wheel is too big and hits your thighs. The seat material in the later W201s is extraordinary stuff - if you had a sofa that old you'd have burnt it years ago, but you can find a 20-year old W201s with a perfect interior
W201s now all seem to need new top mounts and springs and the suspension on most I've driven recently feels tired
The front speakers on the W201 are diabolical, the W124s merely awful
Possibly the best 190E I've driven is a really bog-standard 1.8. If you lived in a seaside town in France or Spain a white 190E 1.8 with wind-up windows would be the perfect car. Sadly, in the UK with roads infested with aggressive idiots in 4x4s, Audis & company cars, I think it'd be out of its depth
Nick Froome
Edited by bolide on Friday 4th May 20:11
My vote would be for the W124 , given the choice .
I`ve only ever driven non Sportline 190`s which didn`t seem as planted as the 124 cars I`ve owned , and slightly too small to carry off the `wafty` quality which we all seem to appreciate .
The other fly in the ointment for the 190 , was that the 323/325i E30 BMW was a superior drivers car . (although as a Mercedes fan , that isn`t an easy comment to admit!) .
The longevity and obvious quality of the 190 ( and all Mercedes of this era) can`t really be faulted , but I would venture that my 129 is slightly better screwed together than any of the W201`s I`ve seen (in response to R129`s observation)
M
I`ve only ever driven non Sportline 190`s which didn`t seem as planted as the 124 cars I`ve owned , and slightly too small to carry off the `wafty` quality which we all seem to appreciate .
The other fly in the ointment for the 190 , was that the 323/325i E30 BMW was a superior drivers car . (although as a Mercedes fan , that isn`t an easy comment to admit!) .
The longevity and obvious quality of the 190 ( and all Mercedes of this era) can`t really be faulted , but I would venture that my 129 is slightly better screwed together than any of the W201`s I`ve seen (in response to R129`s observation)
M
bolide said:
The cars are virtually bulletproof. But I don't think a W201 is a better car than a W124 estate. It might be better than a saloon - W201 2.6 vs W124 300E would be a heck of a battle - but the W201 will always lose to the comfort & ride of the estate.
You feel the road more in a W201, and they are more chuckable. W124 which has a pliable ride, better noise isolation and is easier to navigate in town as you sit a bit higher.
The W124 is more comfortable but more remote and more boatlike. The front seats look like W124 seats but don't support you as well. They are nearer the floor so you drive with your legs straighter. The steering wheel is too big and hits your thighs.
To pick the best of Nick's bits. I loved my W201 2.0E but the third big dog was a problem - more of a drivers car - over shorter journeys. The 124 is your comfy long distance sofa. I want both. You feel the road more in a W201, and they are more chuckable. W124 which has a pliable ride, better noise isolation and is easier to navigate in town as you sit a bit higher.
The W124 is more comfortable but more remote and more boatlike. The front seats look like W124 seats but don't support you as well. They are nearer the floor so you drive with your legs straighter. The steering wheel is too big and hits your thighs.
mickyveloce said:
My vote would be for the W124 , given the choice .
The other fly in the ointment for the 190 , was that the 323/325i E30 BMW was a superior drivers car . (although as a Mercedes fan , that isn`t an easy comment to admit!) .
M
So according to mickyveloce, I already have the ideal combination? Bu**er! Just wish I could have 3 cars.The other fly in the ointment for the 190 , was that the 323/325i E30 BMW was a superior drivers car . (although as a Mercedes fan , that isn`t an easy comment to admit!) .
M
Thanks for all the opinions and observations chaps. It really is great to be able to benefit from the experience of others
Eddie - thanks a lot for the offer to drive yours. I may well take you up on that.
Maybe the best bet is to concentrate on enjoying the 300TE for now (it needs an MOT and a few other bits & pieces imminently) and hopefully get around to driving the E30 a few times before I put it up for sale - then just have a look around at what is available if & when the E30 is sold. I'm in no hurry.
Just as well I didn't ask the other question - w124 vs w126 . . . . . ? Maybe that's for another day.
Eddie - thanks a lot for the offer to drive yours. I may well take you up on that.
Maybe the best bet is to concentrate on enjoying the 300TE for now (it needs an MOT and a few other bits & pieces imminently) and hopefully get around to driving the E30 a few times before I put it up for sale - then just have a look around at what is available if & when the E30 is sold. I'm in no hurry.
Just as well I didn't ask the other question - w124 vs w126 . . . . . ? Maybe that's for another day.
The 124 is miles better than the 126. But you probably need both. All three when you include the 201. And a SL. 107 and 129.
I play this game all the time: the ideal garage...
201 saloon to commute.
124 estate for utility.
124 coupé for personal use.
126 coupé for grand touring.
129 for nights out.
Porsche 911 for sport.
And a 107 tucked away in the garage for when the boy turns 17.
Classic LWB Land Rover as well.
I could go on.
I play this game all the time: the ideal garage...
201 saloon to commute.
124 estate for utility.
124 coupé for personal use.
126 coupé for grand touring.
129 for nights out.
Porsche 911 for sport.
And a 107 tucked away in the garage for when the boy turns 17.
Classic LWB Land Rover as well.
I could go on.
Yeah, obviously, all those business trips to the continent need dedicated wheels. I bottled buying a slightly tired 500E last year, it was smoke silver over mushroom, the only one I have ever seen in that colour. I think the vendor only wanted £6k but I was (and remain) a bit skint. It needed a new rear windscreen (£500 plus fitting) which put me off. Damn my cowardice.
Anyway, I probably need a 126 saloon as well for family outings.
Depending on which way the wind is blowing I like the 140 more than the 126. In all seriousness, the 126 is stone age compared to the 124.
Anyway, I probably need a 126 saloon as well for family outings.
Depending on which way the wind is blowing I like the 140 more than the 126. In all seriousness, the 126 is stone age compared to the 124.
Nice dilemna 
I moved from a E30 325 Touring to a 93 190e 2.6 auto at the start of the year - for ref, 101k miles, patchy recent history but decent up to 80k - £850 on e bay
I was tempted by a 124 as my brother had picked up E280 estate last year and i loved the quality feel - ultimately it came down to aesthetics and for me the 190e is better proportioned than the 124 saloon. Quality not lacking btw on the 190, maybe the 124 is just quieter sounds better quality if that possible.
The 2.6 has a superb engine, i just wish it was more vocal in the way the 325i was. When you're pottering you may as well have the 4 pot as you can't hear it! On the move though,the gearing is just right with plenty of overtaking oomph and fairly serene too at motorway speeds.
Interior on mine has a couple of squeaks which im working my way through, nothing major, but detract from an otherwise cushy cabin; bit of wind noise around the driver side door, but only at silly speeds.
Have spent a fair whack on it doing a full fluid change/36k service and now looking at refreshing suspension with sportline spec springs/shocks - going too far cost wise, but i feel this one could be around for a while yet.
I moved from a E30 325 Touring to a 93 190e 2.6 auto at the start of the year - for ref, 101k miles, patchy recent history but decent up to 80k - £850 on e bay
I was tempted by a 124 as my brother had picked up E280 estate last year and i loved the quality feel - ultimately it came down to aesthetics and for me the 190e is better proportioned than the 124 saloon. Quality not lacking btw on the 190, maybe the 124 is just quieter sounds better quality if that possible.
The 2.6 has a superb engine, i just wish it was more vocal in the way the 325i was. When you're pottering you may as well have the 4 pot as you can't hear it! On the move though,the gearing is just right with plenty of overtaking oomph and fairly serene too at motorway speeds.
Interior on mine has a couple of squeaks which im working my way through, nothing major, but detract from an otherwise cushy cabin; bit of wind noise around the driver side door, but only at silly speeds.
Have spent a fair whack on it doing a full fluid change/36k service and now looking at refreshing suspension with sportline spec springs/shocks - going too far cost wise, but i feel this one could be around for a while yet.
If you replace the springs, shocks & top mounts on a 190E I suspect you'll transform the car. Even standard kit will feel like a massive improvement. Most cars I've driven recently have needed new springs
If you are going to do it I'd be thorough & replace the top mounts (failing on 190s now), top bushes on the rear shocks, spring pads (if not too expensive) and ARB bushes. I'd be very tempted to replace the front wishbone bushes as well - on the bigger-engined W124s they break up and the car will understeer round roundabouts at low speeds with the front end rumbling as it slips sideways. It's only a matter of time on all these cars
Replacing the steering idler is a good cheap upgrade - it's just a big bolt but they do wear
Nick Froome
If you are going to do it I'd be thorough & replace the top mounts (failing on 190s now), top bushes on the rear shocks, spring pads (if not too expensive) and ARB bushes. I'd be very tempted to replace the front wishbone bushes as well - on the bigger-engined W124s they break up and the car will understeer round roundabouts at low speeds with the front end rumbling as it slips sideways. It's only a matter of time on all these cars
Replacing the steering idler is a good cheap upgrade - it's just a big bolt but they do wear
Nick Froome
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