Returning to Windows
Discussion
I’m in the market for a new laptop and I’m not sure what to get.
I was a Windows user until about 2016, when I moved companies and was issues with a MacBook Pro. I use this machine for everything, and haven’t actually owned my own PC since then, but I’d like to have my own laptop again.
I’ve never fully got to grips with Mac OS. Even ten years later, I still feel like I’m in a foreign country when I use it — a visitor, not a native.
So common sense says I should go back to Windows. But my question is, what’s it like these days? Is Windows 11 any good? Will it feel as alien to me as Mac OS did ten years ago? I note there’s no Start menu any more, which makes me think it’s different enough that it’ll take some adjustment going back.
I basically want a modern version of Windows XP. Minimal intervention, no AI tools, subscriptions etc. I guess Linux could be in with a shout, but I’m not the most technical and I don’t want to spend ages faffing with it and getting it to work.
I was a Windows user until about 2016, when I moved companies and was issues with a MacBook Pro. I use this machine for everything, and haven’t actually owned my own PC since then, but I’d like to have my own laptop again.
I’ve never fully got to grips with Mac OS. Even ten years later, I still feel like I’m in a foreign country when I use it — a visitor, not a native.
So common sense says I should go back to Windows. But my question is, what’s it like these days? Is Windows 11 any good? Will it feel as alien to me as Mac OS did ten years ago? I note there’s no Start menu any more, which makes me think it’s different enough that it’ll take some adjustment going back.
I basically want a modern version of Windows XP. Minimal intervention, no AI tools, subscriptions etc. I guess Linux could be in with a shout, but I’m not the most technical and I don’t want to spend ages faffing with it and getting it to work.
Win 11 is good. Is is a modern version of XP really.
The start menu still exists, it s just styled differently. Will take you a few seconds to re familiarise yourself with that.
Rest of it acts mostly the same, just reskinned.
My suggestion would be to go to your local Curry s shop. They have all the laptops on display running. Head to the windows ones and have a play. If the muscle memory comes back after a few minutes playing with the new style, it s probably going to be good for you.
No escaping AI though, Microsoft is embedding CoPilot deep into the OS as well as the Office 365 subscription. but I can’t say I ve found it intrusive when I’ve had cause to use a Windows PC. Both things can be ignored if you don’t need them.
The start menu still exists, it s just styled differently. Will take you a few seconds to re familiarise yourself with that.
Rest of it acts mostly the same, just reskinned.
My suggestion would be to go to your local Curry s shop. They have all the laptops on display running. Head to the windows ones and have a play. If the muscle memory comes back after a few minutes playing with the new style, it s probably going to be good for you.
No escaping AI though, Microsoft is embedding CoPilot deep into the OS as well as the Office 365 subscription. but I can’t say I ve found it intrusive when I’ve had cause to use a Windows PC. Both things can be ignored if you don’t need them.
If you don't get on with the Windows 11 Start Menu or taskbar then try Stardock:
https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/
https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/
Think they're all very homogeneous now, big move from 2016 is SSD so much faster. Just get enough memory, if you're a fan of saving stuff locally or less if using cloud.
Chips, speeds haven't really progressed in 15 years to a normal user, although maybe some nerd will inform otherwise
It's probably more the screen, keyboard, chassis that you like. Internally they're all similar. The AI capability sounds like marketing
I have an old dell laptop that's well over 10 years old, with newish SSD it's fine and fast running 11
Chips, speeds haven't really progressed in 15 years to a normal user, although maybe some nerd will inform otherwise
It's probably more the screen, keyboard, chassis that you like. Internally they're all similar. The AI capability sounds like marketing
I have an old dell laptop that's well over 10 years old, with newish SSD it's fine and fast running 11
If you want to try Linux but dont want to faff around installing it etc, there is a website called distrosea.com where you can test all of the different distrobutions of Linux out.
I'd recommend Fedora Linux , but other shouts are Ubuntu, Linux Mint. They you have to decide which deskptop environment you want, Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc.
I run Fedora with Gnome as a daily, and also SteamOS with KDE (on a Steamdeck)
I'd recommend Fedora Linux , but other shouts are Ubuntu, Linux Mint. They you have to decide which deskptop environment you want, Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc.
I run Fedora with Gnome as a daily, and also SteamOS with KDE (on a Steamdeck)
I've ditched Windows over the last few years since they, in typical Microsoft fashion, have tried to force 'AI' into everything and generally treat the users like an inconvenience.
Moved to Linux Mint XFCE on several laptops and PCs and for the most part it's plug and play just like Windows of old without all the nagware and endless updates resetting things to how Microsoft want them rather than the user. Also doesn't need anywhere like the same amount of resource as Windows so 'flies' on mediocre hardware, giving life to otherwise forced obsolete (if you listen to Microsoft and the rules around Windows 11) laptops and computers. About as close to Windows XP as you can get unless you seek out a particular 'distro' that aims to mimic Windows in appearance, but I don't care about the glam just a no fuss OS like an OS is supposed to be.
Piece of cake to try it out first, they call it 'Linux Live', load it onto a USB stick and boot off it to try out for a session without affecting anything currently installed as it doesn't write anything just runs in memory for that session.
Only reason I still have any Windows PCs around is for the few bits of software not available or too much faff to try to get working on Linux.
Moved to Linux Mint XFCE on several laptops and PCs and for the most part it's plug and play just like Windows of old without all the nagware and endless updates resetting things to how Microsoft want them rather than the user. Also doesn't need anywhere like the same amount of resource as Windows so 'flies' on mediocre hardware, giving life to otherwise forced obsolete (if you listen to Microsoft and the rules around Windows 11) laptops and computers. About as close to Windows XP as you can get unless you seek out a particular 'distro' that aims to mimic Windows in appearance, but I don't care about the glam just a no fuss OS like an OS is supposed to be.
Piece of cake to try it out first, they call it 'Linux Live', load it onto a USB stick and boot off it to try out for a session without affecting anything currently installed as it doesn't write anything just runs in memory for that session.
Only reason I still have any Windows PCs around is for the few bits of software not available or too much faff to try to get working on Linux.
Virtual PAH said:
I've ditched Windows over the last few years since they, in typical Microsoft fashion, have tried to force 'AI' into everything and generally treat the users like an inconvenience.
Moved to Linux Mint XFCE on several laptops and PCs and for the most part it's plug and play just like Windows of old without all the nagware and endless updates resetting things to how Microsoft want them rather than the user. Also doesn't need anywhere like the same amount of resource as Windows so 'flies' on mediocre hardware, giving life to otherwise forced obsolete (if you listen to Microsoft and the rules around Windows 11) laptops and computers. About as close to Windows XP as you can get unless you seek out a particular 'distro' that aims to mimic Windows in appearance, but I don't care about the glam just a no fuss OS like an OS is supposed to be.
Piece of cake to try it out first, they call it 'Linux Live', load it onto a USB stick and boot off it to try out for a session without affecting anything currently installed as it doesn't write anything just runs in memory for that session.
Only reason I still have any Windows PCs around is for the few bits of software not available or too much faff to try to get working on Linux.
Pretty much the same here, been using Linux as a daily driver for 2 years or so now. It is easy to get to grips with these days and unless you are doing power user type stuff it will be easy enough to use. I too still need a windows machine for Fusion 360. Tried to run it on Linux in various ways but it just doesn't work well.Moved to Linux Mint XFCE on several laptops and PCs and for the most part it's plug and play just like Windows of old without all the nagware and endless updates resetting things to how Microsoft want them rather than the user. Also doesn't need anywhere like the same amount of resource as Windows so 'flies' on mediocre hardware, giving life to otherwise forced obsolete (if you listen to Microsoft and the rules around Windows 11) laptops and computers. About as close to Windows XP as you can get unless you seek out a particular 'distro' that aims to mimic Windows in appearance, but I don't care about the glam just a no fuss OS like an OS is supposed to be.
Piece of cake to try it out first, they call it 'Linux Live', load it onto a USB stick and boot off it to try out for a session without affecting anything currently installed as it doesn't write anything just runs in memory for that session.
Only reason I still have any Windows PCs around is for the few bits of software not available or too much faff to try to get working on Linux.
You can get Win11 looking like Win10, normal start menu etc, with a few setting tweaks (lots of guides online), it's not massively different earlier versions from a user POV so doubt you'd have much trouble finding your way around.
"Minimal intervention, no AI tools, subscriptions etc" - unlikely that a Microsoft OS is going to fulfil that, but if you're struggling with the change to OSX then it's probably your most sensible option. I've used Linux for decades, but OSX will be a much slicker version with hardware walled garden and services designed for it, so if you didn't get on with OSX, suspect you'd not like Linux either, does depend on what you're using it for though so might be worth a try.
"Minimal intervention, no AI tools, subscriptions etc" - unlikely that a Microsoft OS is going to fulfil that, but if you're struggling with the change to OSX then it's probably your most sensible option. I've used Linux for decades, but OSX will be a much slicker version with hardware walled garden and services designed for it, so if you didn't get on with OSX, suspect you'd not like Linux either, does depend on what you're using it for though so might be worth a try.
Edited by wombleh on Tuesday 18th August 16:45
I used Mac OS for a decade like you then I retired. I bought my own laptop 18 months ago and, like you, I went back to Windows. I'm on Win 11 on an ASUS Zenbook. It cost under a grand and has been a great bit of kit. Win 11 was like putting on an old pair of slippers after about 30 minutes.
W11 is dog s
t, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authorities
it will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the ste i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account.
i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
t, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authoritiesit will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the s
te i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account. i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
Dave Hedgehog said:
W11 is dog st, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authorities
it will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the ste i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account.
i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
Filed in my big folder of "terrible things about Windows that never seem to happen to me." Well, OK the taskbar thing, I'll give you that. I used to have it on the side of the screen, as God intended. I hear that the ability to move it may be coming back.t, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authoritiesit will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the s
te i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account. i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
Also, the current version of Alt-Tab is rubbish, where you have to tab through every window rather than just every app. I prefer the GNOME/KDE implementations.
Dave Hedgehog said:
W11 is dog st, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authorities
it will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the ste i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account.
i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
This is mostly nonsense. Windows 11 is very customisable and almost everything can be uninstalled, changed, or set up as you'd like to resemble an older version/ whatever you're used to. t, full of spyware reporting to MS, fully traceable even if you use a VPN and MS will happily hand over the details to the authoritiesit will constantly spam with teams, copliot slop. one drive, edge and anything they can try to get you to sign up to a subscription for
i vastly prefer gestures on OSX with a trackpad on a laptop over W11
you cant even move the taskbar any more without a third party mod!!!
it takes me about an hour to group policy out all the s
te i dont want, and they still reinstall it on updates, worse they have locked me out of my machine twice now trying to force me to get a microslop account. i would move to linux if nvidia could be bothered to write decent drivers
You don't need to have copilot, teams or onedrive installed and it all works fine.
You don't need to "report" anything to MS (all things you can opt out of), and under EU GDPR / the UK equivalent now, you can always delete your own data.
Taskbar movement is coming in an update at some point, agree it should already have been there, but at least it'll happen. You should be able to login/use W11 without an account? (I thought there was a way to do this, but maybe not? It might be another update.)
The way I see it, MacOS is for people who want to customise nothing, W11 is for people who want to customise some things, Linus is for people who want to code their own OS!
OP: Obviously it will be different, some things will take a bit of getting used to, but Windows isn't the world's most use computer OS for nothing. If it was seriously crap people would have moved away to something better. If OAPs all across the land can use it, then you can to!
Edited by Condi on Wednesday 19th August 17:22
Condi said:
This is mostly nonsense. Windows 11 is very customisable and almost everything can be uninstalled, changed, or set up as you'd like to resemble an older version/ whatever you're used to.
You don't need to have copilot, teams or onedrive installed and it all works fine.
You don't need to "report" anything to MS (all things you can opt out of), and under EU GDPR / the UK equivalent now, you can always delete your own data.
Taskbar movement is coming in an update at some point, agree it should already have been there, but at least it'll happen. You should be able to login/use W11 without an account? (I thought there was a way to do this, but maybe not? It might be another update.)
The way I see it, MacOS is for people who want to customise nothing, W11 is for people who want to customise some things, Linus is for people who want to code their own OS!
OP: Obviously it will be different, some things will take a bit of getting used to, but Windows isn't the world's most use computer OS for nothing. If it was seriously crap people would have moved away to something better. If OAPs all across the land can use it, then you can to!
That bit is mostly nonsense to use your phrase. Latest versions of Linux install like Windows, come with a useful version of Office already packaged, provide a central hub for updates and anti virus, have an app store that contains some really esoteric software that really surprised me including a professional DAW (Ardour), and there are compatible versions of all sorts of other software available from vendors and manufacturers including support for my digital mixing desk. There is no need to know anything more technical to install and use Linux than you'd need for Windows.You don't need to have copilot, teams or onedrive installed and it all works fine.
You don't need to "report" anything to MS (all things you can opt out of), and under EU GDPR / the UK equivalent now, you can always delete your own data.
Taskbar movement is coming in an update at some point, agree it should already have been there, but at least it'll happen. You should be able to login/use W11 without an account? (I thought there was a way to do this, but maybe not? It might be another update.)
The way I see it, MacOS is for people who want to customise nothing, W11 is for people who want to customise some things, Linus is for people who want to code their own OS!
OP: Obviously it will be different, some things will take a bit of getting used to, but Windows isn't the world's most use computer OS for nothing. If it was seriously crap people would have moved away to something better. If OAPs all across the land can use it, then you can to!
It's not the same but it is aimed at the same level of understanding. And it is independent of American govt oversight, doesn't come with any spyware embedded, and hasn't lost the trust of people who know about these things.
Copilot doesn't bother me at all, it's just an icon on the taskbar that you can remove in two clicks. It's also an icon in Edge, which you can also remove in two clicks. I have no problem with it being there, I find it a useful tool.
Edge is a decent browser based on Chromium, and I find the Adguard adblocker extension works really well. If you set your default search engine to Google, it will recommend you change to Bing about once a month, which is dismissed with a single click. I suspect that this recommendation popping up drives more people to use Chrome than it does people to use Bing.
If you get a new Windows PC, search "check for updates" from the search button and let everything update. This way you won't need to uninstall anything twice if they get reinstalled during an update. Reinstallation of bloatware sometimes happens on the big annual update around October.
I highly recommend uninstalling Onedrive before you do anything else. It is a very confusing and awful piece of software that only seems to exist to fill up the free 5GB space they give you, which is more useful kept for email storage if you use a Microsoft email account.
Edge is a decent browser based on Chromium, and I find the Adguard adblocker extension works really well. If you set your default search engine to Google, it will recommend you change to Bing about once a month, which is dismissed with a single click. I suspect that this recommendation popping up drives more people to use Chrome than it does people to use Bing.
If you get a new Windows PC, search "check for updates" from the search button and let everything update. This way you won't need to uninstall anything twice if they get reinstalled during an update. Reinstallation of bloatware sometimes happens on the big annual update around October.
I highly recommend uninstalling Onedrive before you do anything else. It is a very confusing and awful piece of software that only seems to exist to fill up the free 5GB space they give you, which is more useful kept for email storage if you use a Microsoft email account.
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