Testing 4g Internet questions
Discussion
Hi - I'm thinking of trying 4g as my broadband is only 22/2.7. I live in the ground floor of a big house so no signal.
I have a directional antenna 3 stories up (fitting that was fun!) that connects to a signal booster in my lounge that provides phone signal (voice). No 4G. I know th eantenna DOES pick up 4G as I initially bought the wrong signal booster (wrong frequencies for my local Three signal - I got very good 4G signal but no voice :-) - so I had the booster changed and it boost Three UK and O2 voice, no 4G.
So.. I know the antenna is good and intend to sacrifice voice for 4G IF it works (or look at splitting the antennal signal later down the line, or adding a dedicated antenna).
So my plan is:
SIM: Three 1GB Pay As You Go Data SIM Card from Argos £3.99 1Gb - for testing speeds
Router: Teltonika RUT200 - cheap and does what I need - I already have a well established LAN and router, so just need it for the 4G and its external antenna plugs! https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/50237-telt...
SMA-Male to RP-TNC Female - adapter - my cable is a huge low loss cable with a big RP-TNC plug on teh end.
Idea is to unplug it from the booster, plut it into the 4g router, see if / how well it works, and go from there and if good, get a monthly unlimited plan.
Any problems with this? Any idea what speeds I can expect? (5G isn't here yet). Ping times? Any input from those that have done wimilar would be grand. I can do this whole thing for under £120 with the router SIM and cable adapter - and it's from Amazon so can go back if no good.
I have a directional antenna 3 stories up (fitting that was fun!) that connects to a signal booster in my lounge that provides phone signal (voice). No 4G. I know th eantenna DOES pick up 4G as I initially bought the wrong signal booster (wrong frequencies for my local Three signal - I got very good 4G signal but no voice :-) - so I had the booster changed and it boost Three UK and O2 voice, no 4G.
So.. I know the antenna is good and intend to sacrifice voice for 4G IF it works (or look at splitting the antennal signal later down the line, or adding a dedicated antenna).
So my plan is:
SIM: Three 1GB Pay As You Go Data SIM Card from Argos £3.99 1Gb - for testing speeds
Router: Teltonika RUT200 - cheap and does what I need - I already have a well established LAN and router, so just need it for the 4G and its external antenna plugs! https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/50237-telt...
SMA-Male to RP-TNC Female - adapter - my cable is a huge low loss cable with a big RP-TNC plug on teh end.
Idea is to unplug it from the booster, plut it into the 4g router, see if / how well it works, and go from there and if good, get a monthly unlimited plan.
Any problems with this? Any idea what speeds I can expect? (5G isn't here yet). Ping times? Any input from those that have done wimilar would be grand. I can do this whole thing for under £120 with the router SIM and cable adapter - and it's from Amazon so can go back if no good.
Also in my experience a directional isn’t always best. Towers go down quite regularly for maintenance etc. with a directional aerial you might gain a small amount of signal but if that tower goes down you’re stuck until it’s back up again. With a non directional aerial the modem will jump to another tower.
I would be looking for something like a HUAWEI unit, spying comments aside. I had a few models over time and ran 4g broadband until fibre arrived a year or two ago. I had no issue once I got the right modem/router.
I never gamed with it so can’t comment on pings related to that, but for teams and streaming etc it was grand. Beware with 3 you won’t get a public IP address some people can have an issue with that.
Smart and ID also use 3 so you can buy a SIM card from them, I never had a data only or home broadband sim I always used a normal sim.
I never gamed with it so can’t comment on pings related to that, but for teams and streaming etc it was grand. Beware with 3 you won’t get a public IP address some people can have an issue with that.
Smart and ID also use 3 so you can buy a SIM card from them, I never had a data only or home broadband sim I always used a normal sim.
I’ve got one of these with a Vodafone sim in it, it works well: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Wireless-Connecti...
The Vodafone sim is on an unlimited data contract for £20 a month. I bought PAYG sims for each network to see which was the best.
The Vodafone sim is on an unlimited data contract for £20 a month. I bought PAYG sims for each network to see which was the best.
What you really need to do is get the radio up high rather than just the antenna, the cable you have might be low loss but can have a significant effect on performance, what do you consider to be low loss?
The alternative is compensating for the cable loss with higher antenna gain but this can make the antenna more directional when you need it more omni-directional.
Ideally something like this is what you need, bit of a bugger changing the PAYG SIM regularly though.
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/45450-zyxe...
Would an owner higher up the building let you experiment in their place for an hour to see if you get some decent results?
The alternative is compensating for the cable loss with higher antenna gain but this can make the antenna more directional when you need it more omni-directional.
Ideally something like this is what you need, bit of a bugger changing the PAYG SIM regularly though.
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/45450-zyxe...
Would an owner higher up the building let you experiment in their place for an hour to see if you get some decent results?
I've said it numerous times before in the 4G routers threads but don't assume you can't get a 4G signal just because your personal mobile phone doesn't pick up anything. The (built-in) antennas in the routers are far superior to anything you'll find in a mobile phone. I have no voice signal in my house on any mobile phone I have, and a very slow speed for internet through it, if it even connects at all. I got a Huawei B525 4G router to try and with it say on the downstairs window ledge, have 3 out of 5 signal bars and chugs along at the max 100 Mbps when there isn't too much network contention.
Also don't assume that you'll get a better signal using an external antenna, and definitely don't assume it will be better with a directional antenna! In my case using a separate antenna made the SNR worse and thus slower speeds due to the extra noise. Same issue using a Poynting directional too, which was possibly due to the signal reflecting off other houses/buildings so the signal is not coming from the direction you think it's coming from. After much f
king about and experimentation the best speeds I've achieved are with just using it 'vanilla' out of the box without any external antennas connected. The built-in antennas seem to do the job just fine and presumably come 'pre-tuned' for the best SNR.
As mentioned up-thread, it's paramount to keep your co-ax from your router to your external antenna short (if you decide to use one). Even with so-called low-loss co-ax you'll likely find that any signal gains you achieve by having it at a higher elevation are cancelled out by the signal loss in the co-ax rendering it a pointless exercise. You need to position the router where the antenna is and then run your ethernet cable to your PC or whatever from there, or connect to it over wifi.
Don't get the specific data SIMs as these are all capped and comparatively expensive. Get a phone SIM with unlimited data and put that in the router, but you first need to put it in a phone to activate it when you get it - you can't activate it in the router. Essentially with it in the router you are tethering, but it's now the year 2024 not 2010 so the old tethering restrictions are no longer a thing.
As far as ping goes for gaming, over ethernet to the router I see around 26-30 ms which is perfectly fine for FPS. Over wifi it's more like 50 ms. That's with EE.
Also don't assume that you'll get a better signal using an external antenna, and definitely don't assume it will be better with a directional antenna! In my case using a separate antenna made the SNR worse and thus slower speeds due to the extra noise. Same issue using a Poynting directional too, which was possibly due to the signal reflecting off other houses/buildings so the signal is not coming from the direction you think it's coming from. After much f
king about and experimentation the best speeds I've achieved are with just using it 'vanilla' out of the box without any external antennas connected. The built-in antennas seem to do the job just fine and presumably come 'pre-tuned' for the best SNR.As mentioned up-thread, it's paramount to keep your co-ax from your router to your external antenna short (if you decide to use one). Even with so-called low-loss co-ax you'll likely find that any signal gains you achieve by having it at a higher elevation are cancelled out by the signal loss in the co-ax rendering it a pointless exercise. You need to position the router where the antenna is and then run your ethernet cable to your PC or whatever from there, or connect to it over wifi.
Don't get the specific data SIMs as these are all capped and comparatively expensive. Get a phone SIM with unlimited data and put that in the router, but you first need to put it in a phone to activate it when you get it - you can't activate it in the router. Essentially with it in the router you are tethering, but it's now the year 2024 not 2010 so the old tethering restrictions are no longer a thing.
As far as ping goes for gaming, over ethernet to the router I see around 26-30 ms which is perfectly fine for FPS. Over wifi it's more like 50 ms. That's with EE.
All interesting stuff, thank you all. Didn't realise the data only cards were more limited than using a voice card.
Also didn't know i might be able to find 4g with the built in antennas on a router where a phone can't see it. We are in quite a mobile black out area. Hence i have the signal booster so we have voice in the house. I had to work hard to get the directional roof antenna to get enough signal for the signal amp to get enough db to lock on and function.
Totally get its better to have a device in the signal range rather than have an antenna on a cable. Was no other way with getting mobile voice signal, hence my thoughts of utilising the existing csble and antenna, but, would be nice to leave it alone. it really is low loss cable btw - mate works in that field and supplied it. It's huge!! The BNC-T connector is barely bigger than the cable.
I could try the suggested router high up on the wall above me. I'll be up there on a cherry picker this summer anyhow. Could try it using a neighbours window 1st.... Was so hard getting the amp to work with my roof antenna I assumed there would be no signal lower down.
30ms is what I get with Ookla speed test on my broadband at present.
What kinds of speeds should I expect?
Also didn't know i might be able to find 4g with the built in antennas on a router where a phone can't see it. We are in quite a mobile black out area. Hence i have the signal booster so we have voice in the house. I had to work hard to get the directional roof antenna to get enough signal for the signal amp to get enough db to lock on and function.
Totally get its better to have a device in the signal range rather than have an antenna on a cable. Was no other way with getting mobile voice signal, hence my thoughts of utilising the existing csble and antenna, but, would be nice to leave it alone. it really is low loss cable btw - mate works in that field and supplied it. It's huge!! The BNC-T connector is barely bigger than the cable.
I could try the suggested router high up on the wall above me. I'll be up there on a cherry picker this summer anyhow. Could try it using a neighbours window 1st.... Was so hard getting the amp to work with my roof antenna I assumed there would be no signal lower down.
30ms is what I get with Ookla speed test on my broadband at present.
What kinds of speeds should I expect?
Griffith4ever said:
All interesting stuff, thank you all. Didn't realise the data only cards were more limited than using a voice card.
Also didn't know i might be able to find 4g with the built in antennas on a router where a phone can't see it. We are in quite a mobile black out area. Hence i have the signal booster so we have voice in the house. I had to work hard to get the directional roof antenna to get enough signal for the signal amp to get enough db to lock on and function.
Totally get its better to have a device in the signal range rather than have an antenna on a cable. Was no other way with getting mobile voice signal, hence my thoughts of utilising the existing csble and antenna, but, would be nice to leave it alone. it really is low loss cable btw - mate works in that field and supplied it. It's huge!! The BNC-T connector is barely bigger than the cable.
I could try the suggested router high up on the wall above me. I'll be up there on a cherry picker this summer anyhow. Could try it using a neighbours window 1st.... Was so hard getting the amp to work with my roof antenna I assumed there would be no signal lower down.
30ms is what I get with Ookla speed test on my broadband at present.
What kinds of speeds should I expect?
Impossible to say re speed. Every situation is different and will have its own set of factors. What's your native (phone) signal like outside the property? If you've got a reasonable signal strength there then I'm confident a 4G router will work fine, once you find the best performing location to site it. This will take time and many many speed tests, so ensure you have sufficient overhead on your data package if you opt for a data SIM to do the tests with as each speed test obviously chews a chunk of data.Also didn't know i might be able to find 4g with the built in antennas on a router where a phone can't see it. We are in quite a mobile black out area. Hence i have the signal booster so we have voice in the house. I had to work hard to get the directional roof antenna to get enough signal for the signal amp to get enough db to lock on and function.
Totally get its better to have a device in the signal range rather than have an antenna on a cable. Was no other way with getting mobile voice signal, hence my thoughts of utilising the existing csble and antenna, but, would be nice to leave it alone. it really is low loss cable btw - mate works in that field and supplied it. It's huge!! The BNC-T connector is barely bigger than the cable.
I could try the suggested router high up on the wall above me. I'll be up there on a cherry picker this summer anyhow. Could try it using a neighbours window 1st.... Was so hard getting the amp to work with my roof antenna I assumed there would be no signal lower down.
30ms is what I get with Ookla speed test on my broadband at present.
What kinds of speeds should I expect?
Internet over 4G/5G routers is very much trial and error til you find the sweet spot and requires a lot of patience if you're in a marginal signal location or building.
r3g said:
What's your native (phone) signal like outside the property?
None - hence I have an antenna 3 stories up :-)I was at a family home tofday and speed tested my phone tether (very rural, good 4g signal) - got 40 down 10 up - with a 35-40ms ping. I get 18ms to 20ms on my wired broadband, but far less than half that speed.
I'm thinking I'll live with the speed I get just to maintain the ping!
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 31st March 18:56
The long cable runs to the antenna will degrade the signal. Have a look at Mikrotik LTE, a combined antenna/router, you just need a CAT5 cable to it, powered by PoE.
I have used them for 4G internet, very good. Only downside is the sim is in the router which is up on the roof, makes access difficult if needed. Can be put in 'modem' bridged mode if you want to use your own router.
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/50506-mikr...
I have used them for 4G internet, very good. Only downside is the sim is in the router which is up on the roof, makes access difficult if needed. Can be put in 'modem' bridged mode if you want to use your own router.
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/50506-mikr...
Edited by megaphone on Monday 1st April 07:31
Griffith4ever said:
None - hence I have an antenna 3 stories up :-)
I was at a family home tofday and speed tested my phone tether (very rural, good 4g signal) - got 40 down 10 up - with a 35-40ms ping. I get 18ms to 20ms on my wired broadband, but far less than half that speed.
I'm thinking I'll live with the speed I get just to maintain the ping!
I would seriously look at using starlink instead. I was at a family home tofday and speed tested my phone tether (very rural, good 4g signal) - got 40 down 10 up - with a 35-40ms ping. I get 18ms to 20ms on my wired broadband, but far less than half that speed.
I'm thinking I'll live with the speed I get just to maintain the ping!
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 31st March 18:56
In my old house, I had good internet via a 4G USB dongle. I used it for a couple of months while trying to get openwound to sort the phone line.
6 months later, it was rubbish. Except at 4AM.
A base station has only so much bandwidth. How much you get depends on how many people you're sharing it with.
6 months later, it was rubbish. Except at 4AM.
A base station has only so much bandwidth. How much you get depends on how many people you're sharing it with.
Sooo. For fun I'm going to try it with a Huwawei CPE up high. It's priced far more sensibly than the Xyxtel.
Huawei 5G CPE Win
And the interweb tells me my only 5g carrier coverage is EE and Three. So I'm going to try an EE 5G sim, and also a Three 5g sim.
(I know O2 4g works here - my signal amp (booster) is passing it down (which could be a problem!! - I'm guessing my CPE will latch onto it instead of the "real " one. So avoiding O2 for now...) - for giggles - through the booster, on my phone, I get 8/8 :-)
Any recommendations for EE sim plans that would work?/godo value?
Huawei 5G CPE Win
And the interweb tells me my only 5g carrier coverage is EE and Three. So I'm going to try an EE 5G sim, and also a Three 5g sim.
(I know O2 4g works here - my signal amp (booster) is passing it down (which could be a problem!! - I'm guessing my CPE will latch onto it instead of the "real " one. So avoiding O2 for now...) - for giggles - through the booster, on my phone, I get 8/8 :-)
Any recommendations for EE sim plans that would work?/godo value?
Edited by Griffith4ever on Monday 1st April 21:10
Well hopefully your 3 sim will work. You can get unlimited Smarty sim for 20 quid on a rolling monthly contract, the equivalent EE sim will be about 14020 quid and then they'll put it up by 187% next April.
If your 5g doesn't work you can get an 02 4g sim from giff gaff for a few quid more than a 3 Smarty sim but with a 12/18 month contract, but still a lot cheaper than EE. I believe their prices may have increased while I've been typing this.
If your 5g doesn't work you can get an 02 4g sim from giff gaff for a few quid more than a 3 Smarty sim but with a 12/18 month contract, but still a lot cheaper than EE. I believe their prices may have increased while I've been typing this.
I am alright Jack said:
Well hopefully your 3 sim will work. You can get unlimited Smarty sim for 20 quid on a rolling monthly contract, the equivalent EE sim will be about 14020 quid and then they'll put it up by 187% next April.
If your 5g doesn't work you can get an 02 4g sim from giff gaff for a few quid more than a 3 Smarty sim but with a 12/18 month contract, but still a lot cheaper than EE. I believe their prices may have increased while I've been typing this.
Haha :-) Hence I posted on here - a quick google kept finding £50 "deals" with EE.....If your 5g doesn't work you can get an 02 4g sim from giff gaff for a few quid more than a 3 Smarty sim but with a 12/18 month contract, but still a lot cheaper than EE. I believe their prices may have increased while I've been typing this.
I've been running 4G+ for my internet for the last couple of years.
Three (or one of it's MVNO's) is the cheapest. You can get a Scancom prepaid data sim from Amazon for £7.50 month (unlimited) or £5.50 for 500 gig month.
If you need Vodafone, then Lebara do unlimited. You can get this for £9.95 per month for three months, if you're prepared to swap sims every qtr.
Three (or one of it's MVNO's) is the cheapest. You can get a Scancom prepaid data sim from Amazon for £7.50 month (unlimited) or £5.50 for 500 gig month.
If you need Vodafone, then Lebara do unlimited. You can get this for £9.95 per month for three months, if you're prepared to swap sims every qtr.
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