Can anyone try and help me measure a distance on Google maps
Discussion
Hello
I am utterly useless with computers. I am here with my cap in my hand, bended knee, to see if there is anyone here who can help me with this.
In short I have received a yellow box junction ticket. It's going to a hearing in front of an adjudicator in January.
I am contesting the ticket because whilst the circumstances behind me getting it do not exactly cover myself in glory (as the video will show) I do not think that the ticket has been validly issued.
The reason for that (in short) is that there was space in front of my car for me to have cleared the box, I thought I had, but I was still in the box by about a wheels length. Because of that I got a ticket. However if I can prove there was space enough in front of my car to have cleared the box, I should be able to successfully appeal the ticket.
I think it's clear from the video that there was enough space. However if possible I would like to do a belt and braces job for the appeal, and if possible provide an electronic measurement from google earth proving the space that was there which can then be compared to the length of my car.
I have tried to do this on Google maps and can't manage it.
Does anyone have any tips for me to try and achieve this, or if it's what you do for a living or if you know what you're doing, take pity on me and try and do it for me?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bNATbXLCYFsjz9rb6
Here is the Google Street view location
And here is the video of me (blue car-yeh I know slow hand clap etc).
https://youtu.be/RETD5KVKaew?si=W0TGhx7Dd1njyZiI
Also anyone know what the car to my left is? A small vw suv or a Toyota rav4?
Cheers for any pointers.
I am utterly useless with computers. I am here with my cap in my hand, bended knee, to see if there is anyone here who can help me with this.
In short I have received a yellow box junction ticket. It's going to a hearing in front of an adjudicator in January.
I am contesting the ticket because whilst the circumstances behind me getting it do not exactly cover myself in glory (as the video will show) I do not think that the ticket has been validly issued.
The reason for that (in short) is that there was space in front of my car for me to have cleared the box, I thought I had, but I was still in the box by about a wheels length. Because of that I got a ticket. However if I can prove there was space enough in front of my car to have cleared the box, I should be able to successfully appeal the ticket.
I think it's clear from the video that there was enough space. However if possible I would like to do a belt and braces job for the appeal, and if possible provide an electronic measurement from google earth proving the space that was there which can then be compared to the length of my car.
I have tried to do this on Google maps and can't manage it.
Does anyone have any tips for me to try and achieve this, or if it's what you do for a living or if you know what you're doing, take pity on me and try and do it for me?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bNATbXLCYFsjz9rb6
Here is the Google Street view location
And here is the video of me (blue car-yeh I know slow hand clap etc).
https://youtu.be/RETD5KVKaew?si=W0TGhx7Dd1njyZiI
Also anyone know what the car to my left is? A small vw suv or a Toyota rav4?
Cheers for any pointers.
I think you are wasting your time, you stopped in the yellow box because your exit wasn't clear. From recollection there is no exemption for 'short' stops, a stop for even a few seconds will trigger a ticket.
You need to work out how valuable your time is v the cost of the fine v how long it will take you prove the ticket is invalid (if possible).
You need to work out how valuable your time is v the cost of the fine v how long it will take you prove the ticket is invalid (if possible).
I'm happy to try and defend the ticket and believe I have good grounds to do so. The offence is only made out if you have to stop for a stationary car in front of yours.
I technically didn't have to do that because there is very obviously enough room to the front and side of my car for me to find the 30cm or whatever I need to have cleared the box. If I can prove that then the ticket isn't valid.
It was not my best bit of driving however and I exercised poor judgment by stopping when I did. if I had a time machine I would have done things slightly differently.
I technically didn't have to do that because there is very obviously enough room to the front and side of my car for me to find the 30cm or whatever I need to have cleared the box. If I can prove that then the ticket isn't valid.
It was not my best bit of driving however and I exercised poor judgment by stopping when I did. if I had a time machine I would have done things slightly differently.
Believe it or not, yes there is!
And it wasn't half the car it was about 40-50 cm. The boot can overhang the box junction what I need to prove is the wheels could have all been clear.
It's obvious from the video that was possible, I had just had a torrid journey and was not concentrating.
And it wasn't half the car it was about 40-50 cm. The boot can overhang the box junction what I need to prove is the wheels could have all been clear.
It's obvious from the video that was possible, I had just had a torrid journey and was not concentrating.
Edited by princeperch on Saturday 23 December 16:01
princeperch said:
I'm happy to try and defend the ticket and believe I have good grounds to do so. The offence is only made out if you have to stop for a stationary car in front of yours.
I technically didn't have to do that because there is very obviously enough room to the front and side of my car for me to find the 30cm or whatever I need to have cleared the box. If I can prove that then the ticket isn't valid.
It was not my best bit of driving however and I exercised poor judgment by stopping when I did. if I had a time machine I would have done things slightly differently.
I have been there, made a similar mistake and took the punishment. The appeals board will have heard your arguments a thousand times before, the simple fact is you made a mistake and got a ticket. I doubt any amount of arguing or technical rationales will get the ticket withdrawn.I technically didn't have to do that because there is very obviously enough room to the front and side of my car for me to find the 30cm or whatever I need to have cleared the box. If I can prove that then the ticket isn't valid.
It was not my best bit of driving however and I exercised poor judgment by stopping when I did. if I had a time machine I would have done things slightly differently.
FMOB said:
I have been there, made a similar mistake and took the punishment. The appeals board will have heard your arguments a thousand times before, the simple fact is you made a mistake and got a ticket. I doubt any amount of arguing or technical rationales will get the ticket withdrawn.
They heard an argument from Someone recently at the very same box junction in identical circumstances and the appeal was allowed.https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14...
I accept it wasn't a great bit of driving however I see no reason to pay the council money when I don't need to.
I think worst case scenario I was 1 yard I.e 90ish cm into the box when I decided to stop. I think it is realistically quite a bit less than that, probably closer to 50 or 60cm or one wheel width.
If you look at the location of the back of the red car I think (being generous to the council who are trying to lighten my pocket by 130 quid) there was a gap which took up half of the cycle crossing (the thicker hatched lines directly in front of my car). So erring on the side of caution there was 3 yards in front of me.
If you measure the width of the space that was available it seems that there was about 3 yards of space in width (274cm). My car is 177cm wide.
I have a degree of sympathy with the council because they make millions of pounds out of this sort of stuff and they've been shafted by central government for years. But if I don't have to pay it I won't be doing so
Thanks also to the poster who pointed out how to measure the distances using Google maps - no wonder I couldn't do it as I was trying to use street view!
What a s
t-hole this country has become. Having people spying on you to punish every single mistake you make for £100 a pop. Nine hours labour at minimum wage levels and for what? You didn't cause any bother to anyone else, nobody else was held up.
What about that silver car next to you? He was in a similar situation to you but did not become stationary. Instead, he sliced into the on-coming lane and cut in further down the queue. That seems to be OK then.
t-hole this country has become. Having people spying on you to punish every single mistake you make for £100 a pop. Nine hours labour at minimum wage levels and for what? You didn't cause any bother to anyone else, nobody else was held up.What about that silver car next to you? He was in a similar situation to you but did not become stationary. Instead, he sliced into the on-coming lane and cut in further down the queue. That seems to be OK then.
It's low hanging fruit though isn't it.
Half the drivers round where I live drive like utter utters. Criminally so.
But have your back wheel a few inches in a box junction that'll be 130 quid please if you want to contest it at an appeal
Anyway I found an app last night which has allowed me to measure with alarming precision how much I was in the box by and how much space was ahead of me.
Long story short I can prove the car could have fitted into the gap that was in front of me. If the adjudicator agrees the money grabbers get nothing. If they disagree with me I'm on the hook for 130.
It's a grubby way to balance the books in my view.
One bus lane in Leytonstone is never used from what I've seen, the markings are confusing and the bus lane is enforced just before a very busy roundabout where it goes from one lane to three. The same council (lb of Waltham forest) makes a million quid a year off this one bus lane alone.
Half the drivers round where I live drive like utter utter
s. Criminally so.But have your back wheel a few inches in a box junction that'll be 130 quid please if you want to contest it at an appeal
Anyway I found an app last night which has allowed me to measure with alarming precision how much I was in the box by and how much space was ahead of me.
Long story short I can prove the car could have fitted into the gap that was in front of me. If the adjudicator agrees the money grabbers get nothing. If they disagree with me I'm on the hook for 130.
It's a grubby way to balance the books in my view.
One bus lane in Leytonstone is never used from what I've seen, the markings are confusing and the bus lane is enforced just before a very busy roundabout where it goes from one lane to three. The same council (lb of Waltham forest) makes a million quid a year off this one bus lane alone.
Colonel Cupcake said:
What a st-hole this country has become. Having people spying on you to punish every single mistake you make for £100 a pop. Nine hours labour at minimum wage levels and for what? You didn't cause any bother to anyone else, nobody else was held up.
What about that silver car next to you? He was in a similar situation to you but did not become stationary. Instead, he sliced into the on-coming lane and cut in further down the queue. That seems to be OK then.
If drivers followed the rules and stopped being chancers there would not be enough money generated to make this type of enforcement worth it, we create the conditions that make this type of enforcement financially worth it.t-hole this country has become. Having people spying on you to punish every single mistake you make for £100 a pop. Nine hours labour at minimum wage levels and for what? You didn't cause any bother to anyone else, nobody else was held up.What about that silver car next to you? He was in a similar situation to you but did not become stationary. Instead, he sliced into the on-coming lane and cut in further down the queue. That seems to be OK then.
As for the silver car, how do you know it didn't get a ticket? A very big assumption to make.
As for the OP, took a chance, got a ticket and now has wasted many hours trying to find a get-out to avoid the fine.
They sent me the ticket and rejected my initial appeal because they said I entered the box junction when my exit wasn't clear.
It's not actually an offence (civil or criminal) to leave the box junction as I did and to stop your car when you think you've gone far enough - the offence is taking the decision to enter the box junction when your exit isn't clear and having to stop behind another car when exiting the box. If you go in to turn right exit the box and believe you've cleared it and then stop, you've only committed the offence if you have to stop directly behind another car when leaving the box. If there is a gap big enough for you to drive into, but you just didn't (as was the case with me) the ticket is arguably invalid because I could have left the box entirely but just didn't.
What I therefore need to prove is that there was space for my car in the gap in question and that my exit was therefore technically clear when I entered the box.
I think I've got the measurements to prove that. It's a pain in the arse but if you drive in London and it's suburbs for any significant amount of time it's likely you'll end up with one of these sodding things to deal with too. Most roll over and pay the discount. I have done before (the last time 3 years ago).
On this occasion my gut tells me I have a good chance of getting off the ticket so I'll give it a bash.
Unfortunately for the silver car I suspect he will have been sent a ticket too. He'd have good grounds to argue it should be quashed on de minimis grounds I.e he was only stopped for a few seconds.
It's not actually an offence (civil or criminal) to leave the box junction as I did and to stop your car when you think you've gone far enough - the offence is taking the decision to enter the box junction when your exit isn't clear and having to stop behind another car when exiting the box. If you go in to turn right exit the box and believe you've cleared it and then stop, you've only committed the offence if you have to stop directly behind another car when leaving the box. If there is a gap big enough for you to drive into, but you just didn't (as was the case with me) the ticket is arguably invalid because I could have left the box entirely but just didn't.
What I therefore need to prove is that there was space for my car in the gap in question and that my exit was therefore technically clear when I entered the box.
I think I've got the measurements to prove that. It's a pain in the arse but if you drive in London and it's suburbs for any significant amount of time it's likely you'll end up with one of these sodding things to deal with too. Most roll over and pay the discount. I have done before (the last time 3 years ago).
On this occasion my gut tells me I have a good chance of getting off the ticket so I'll give it a bash.
Unfortunately for the silver car I suspect he will have been sent a ticket too. He'd have good grounds to argue it should be quashed on de minimis grounds I.e he was only stopped for a few seconds.
Edited by princeperch on Monday 25th December 20:58
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