VM leased line - SFP or RJ45 for termination?
Discussion
Hi
Getting a VM 300/1000 leased line installed next week. It's being installed on a "wires only" setup, as I already have a Cisco router in situ ready to accept the incoming cable(s).
From the research I had been doing I was led to believe that I would be getting an ADVA FSP-150 as the NTE, with a SFP setup that would connect it to my router. I've been informed by the provisioning company that they will be installing an "Alcatel Lucent" unit. I'm assuming it'll be a Alcatel-Lucent OmniSwitch OS6250-8M - based on forum posts elsewhere, etc.
My question is quite simply this - on the assumption that I could use either the SFP or RJ45 ports on this, is there any reason I should go for one over the other? The router will be sat below it in the rack, so cable distance is irrelevant.
I quite liked the idea of having it be fibre all the way up to and in to the router, since I have regular old Cat6 everywhere else in the building. That's an entirely unscientific "wooo tech" feeling though, and from what I can gather there's various technologies I need to be wary of to ensure compatbility - e.g. single mode vs multimode, etc.
My Cisco router has got a couple of GLC-SX-MMD multimode SFP modules installed ready.
Thanks in advance!
Getting a VM 300/1000 leased line installed next week. It's being installed on a "wires only" setup, as I already have a Cisco router in situ ready to accept the incoming cable(s).
From the research I had been doing I was led to believe that I would be getting an ADVA FSP-150 as the NTE, with a SFP setup that would connect it to my router. I've been informed by the provisioning company that they will be installing an "Alcatel Lucent" unit. I'm assuming it'll be a Alcatel-Lucent OmniSwitch OS6250-8M - based on forum posts elsewhere, etc.
My question is quite simply this - on the assumption that I could use either the SFP or RJ45 ports on this, is there any reason I should go for one over the other? The router will be sat below it in the rack, so cable distance is irrelevant.
I quite liked the idea of having it be fibre all the way up to and in to the router, since I have regular old Cat6 everywhere else in the building. That's an entirely unscientific "wooo tech" feeling though, and from what I can gather there's various technologies I need to be wary of to ensure compatbility - e.g. single mode vs multimode, etc.
My Cisco router has got a couple of GLC-SX-MMD multimode SFP modules installed ready.
Thanks in advance!
CharlieCrocodile said:
Would VM support it? As soon as there's an issue with the connection they'll blame your equipment.
Sorry, to be clear I'm not looking to supplant their equipment. I'm aware it'll be part of the contract that the NTE will need to be in place for monitoring of the circuit etc. I mean the connection from their NTE to our stuff.When I thought we were going to get an ADVA FSP-150 (what Openreach provision I believe) I assumed the patch cable would be SFP.. but with the VM kit it looks like it could be SFP or RJ45.
I had similar thoughts when I had fibre run to our place (domestic house).
In the end, I used their kit for the fibre<>ethernet connection, then connected my router via Ethernet/RJ45.
This felt better because if there is anything that goes wrong with the fibre connection(s) it's 100% theirs.
In the end, I used their kit for the fibre<>ethernet connection, then connected my router via Ethernet/RJ45.
This felt better because if there is anything that goes wrong with the fibre connection(s) it's 100% theirs.
biggiles said:
I had similar thoughts when I had fibre run to our place (domestic house).
In the end, I used their kit for the fibre<>ethernet connection, then connected my router via Ethernet/RJ45.
This felt better because if there is anything that goes wrong with the fibre connection(s) it's 100% theirs.
Yeah, it seems like a lot less work to be honest.In the end, I used their kit for the fibre<>ethernet connection, then connected my router via Ethernet/RJ45.
This felt better because if there is anything that goes wrong with the fibre connection(s) it's 100% theirs.
I haven't played with SFP at all so thought this would be a good opportunity to, plus since we're going to have a failover ISP config I thought it would be pretty neat to be able to see at a glance which connection was the fibre one (even though it's all fibre beyond the building) and which was the backup one. Realistically it's only going to be me looking at it though.
It seems all of the practical benefits of SFP vs RJ45 relate to power usage and it being capable at longer distances, neither of which really apply in this case.
VM usually present the customer access on a copper port by default. I’ve not ordered a circuit directly with Virgin for a while so I don’t know if you can specify fibre/SFP handoff, but I’d be surprised if you can’t - it may be a chargeable extra.
If the circuit is “on-net” with VM, that is the premises is connected directly to their own fibre, you won’t get an Adva NTE. If VM are using an Openreach tail to connect you to their nearest point of presence, you will get an Adva from Openreach then VM will stick their Alcatel NTE in front of it. This looks slightly less odd than if Vodafone use an Openreach tail, because Vodafone use the same Adva kit so you have two identical boxes daisy chained together!
Openreach have been offering copper handoff on 1G circuits for a few years now, and on 100Mbps for as long as I can remember, you can order fibre (SM or MM) or copper at the point of order. 10G is always fibre.
I’d rather have a root canal without anaesthetic than deal with VM these days, so if there is no viable alternative providers I’ll order through an aggregator and pay them to deal with them.
There’s no real benefit to fibre handoff over copper in terms of performance, so generally I prefer copper because it’s easier and there’s less to go wrong, but say in enterprise networks where you want the inter site links in to a core switch, that might be all SFP ports so you’d order fibre there. Almost nobody bothers outside of highly critical networks, but you should really clean all your fibre connectors and SFP’s prior to use because a spec of dust on a fibre connection can be enough to kill it. Single mode is slightly more prone to dirt because the fibre strands are thinner than multi mode. You also need to ensure you patch leads are crossed if you’re connecting directly between two SFP’s so the transmit on one lands as the receive on the other. Unlike copper, fibre connections won’t sort this out for you. I’m jaded by having done hundreds of thousands of fibre connections over the years but it’s just unnecessary faff unless there’s a good reason for using it.
If you want to do something really interesting with fibre get some WDM kit to have a play with. The likes of Ciena and Adva have some really trick stuff. I’m playing with some long range 100G coherent transmission kit in the lab at work at the moment prior to install.
If the circuit is “on-net” with VM, that is the premises is connected directly to their own fibre, you won’t get an Adva NTE. If VM are using an Openreach tail to connect you to their nearest point of presence, you will get an Adva from Openreach then VM will stick their Alcatel NTE in front of it. This looks slightly less odd than if Vodafone use an Openreach tail, because Vodafone use the same Adva kit so you have two identical boxes daisy chained together!
Openreach have been offering copper handoff on 1G circuits for a few years now, and on 100Mbps for as long as I can remember, you can order fibre (SM or MM) or copper at the point of order. 10G is always fibre.
I’d rather have a root canal without anaesthetic than deal with VM these days, so if there is no viable alternative providers I’ll order through an aggregator and pay them to deal with them.
There’s no real benefit to fibre handoff over copper in terms of performance, so generally I prefer copper because it’s easier and there’s less to go wrong, but say in enterprise networks where you want the inter site links in to a core switch, that might be all SFP ports so you’d order fibre there. Almost nobody bothers outside of highly critical networks, but you should really clean all your fibre connectors and SFP’s prior to use because a spec of dust on a fibre connection can be enough to kill it. Single mode is slightly more prone to dirt because the fibre strands are thinner than multi mode. You also need to ensure you patch leads are crossed if you’re connecting directly between two SFP’s so the transmit on one lands as the receive on the other. Unlike copper, fibre connections won’t sort this out for you. I’m jaded by having done hundreds of thousands of fibre connections over the years but it’s just unnecessary faff unless there’s a good reason for using it.
If you want to do something really interesting with fibre get some WDM kit to have a play with. The likes of Ciena and Adva have some really trick stuff. I’m playing with some long range 100G coherent transmission kit in the lab at work at the moment prior to install.
Thanks, that’s incredibly comprehensive.
I’ve been told by the supplier we ordered from that an “Alcatel Lucent” device is being supplied, and that it requires 1U. That’s all the info they’ve given me, and someone is due to attend on Wednesday for this equipment to be installed.
I did query whether it would be an ADVA instead, based on my research, and it was confirmed it was the “Alcatel Lucent”.
Interestingly that’s not the first time I’ve heard of both an ADVA and Alcatel Lucent OS6250-8M being installed. I assumed it was just a weird config due to the person having two incoming fibre connections.
I don’t honestly know how far in VM is to the premises. Their consumer stuff is very close to the building though (just across the road, probably 25 metres away as the crow flies). I don’t have more than 1U to spare so I hope the first option is the case!
I’ve been told by the supplier we ordered from that an “Alcatel Lucent” device is being supplied, and that it requires 1U. That’s all the info they’ve given me, and someone is due to attend on Wednesday for this equipment to be installed.
I did query whether it would be an ADVA instead, based on my research, and it was confirmed it was the “Alcatel Lucent”.
Interestingly that’s not the first time I’ve heard of both an ADVA and Alcatel Lucent OS6250-8M being installed. I assumed it was just a weird config due to the person having two incoming fibre connections.
I don’t honestly know how far in VM is to the premises. Their consumer stuff is very close to the building though (just across the road, probably 25 metres away as the crow flies). I don’t have more than 1U to spare so I hope the first option is the case!
Thought I'd update this - for what it's worth to anyone else.
Engineer installed the kit, I asked about SFP termination and he said I could have both if I wanted. Even provided me with an SFP module to plug into it. He just said that I should slightly pull out the SFP module if using copper.
Long story short - both fibre and copper work. I ended up deciding to use copper because it was less fiddly, but might change it on an aesthetic whim if I can be bothered (probably won't, now that it's working)
The only annoyance I had getting it all up and running was trying to get a straight answer out of the supplier as to whether the gateway IP they provided was actually on the Alcatel-Lucent NTE, or beyond it on the other end of the fibre. Logically I assumed it was on the NTE, but after removing the fibre (because said supplier were clueless) I found out it wasn't, which was perfect for me because it meant I could use the gateway IP as a basis for determining whether the circuit was up or not for failover purposes.
Engineer installed the kit, I asked about SFP termination and he said I could have both if I wanted. Even provided me with an SFP module to plug into it. He just said that I should slightly pull out the SFP module if using copper.
Long story short - both fibre and copper work. I ended up deciding to use copper because it was less fiddly, but might change it on an aesthetic whim if I can be bothered (probably won't, now that it's working)
The only annoyance I had getting it all up and running was trying to get a straight answer out of the supplier as to whether the gateway IP they provided was actually on the Alcatel-Lucent NTE, or beyond it on the other end of the fibre. Logically I assumed it was on the NTE, but after removing the fibre (because said supplier were clueless) I found out it wasn't, which was perfect for me because it meant I could use the gateway IP as a basis for determining whether the circuit was up or not for failover purposes.
I have 2 x ADVA FSP-150 for Openreach tails both presenting over 1Gbps single-mode fibre, but when ordering the second service recently I was given a choice of RJ45, SM or MM but chose to keep it consistent with the first. One service has a CPE sat in my rack so that's obviously my next hop, the other is wires-only and in that case the default gateway sits on the ISP's side of the link as you have described.
I prefer the wires-only offering.
I prefer the wires-only offering.
Edited by theboss on Thursday 7th December 11:27
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