Spare Router as Range Extender?
Discussion
Hello all. I'm in the position of having half an idea of what I think I should be able to do, but not clever enough to do it... What I am aiming to do is to use a spare (Plusnet) router to extend my WiFi range.
My broadband comes from a Three 5g Home Router (So via their mobile 5G network). Speeds are great, WiFi coverage is OK-ish but could be better. I think I'd like to force it to 2.4Ghz but that doesn't seem to be an option.
Anyway, I have the Plusnet "Two" router, a good device by all accounts. I believe this can offer very decent WiFi coverage. (I don't have a Plusnet account any more, the landline coverage to the house is terrible).
So... how to use the Plusnet router to provide the WiFi coverage, with the broadband itself coming from the Three device?
This involves "Bridge Mode" as far as I understand it, connecting a port from the Three router to the WAN port on the Plusnet router.
Am I right in thinking this is possible, and in the best case I'd have WiFi from both routers to give me better coverage still.
Help much appreciated.
My broadband comes from a Three 5g Home Router (So via their mobile 5G network). Speeds are great, WiFi coverage is OK-ish but could be better. I think I'd like to force it to 2.4Ghz but that doesn't seem to be an option.
Anyway, I have the Plusnet "Two" router, a good device by all accounts. I believe this can offer very decent WiFi coverage. (I don't have a Plusnet account any more, the landline coverage to the house is terrible).
So... how to use the Plusnet router to provide the WiFi coverage, with the broadband itself coming from the Three device?
This involves "Bridge Mode" as far as I understand it, connecting a port from the Three router to the WAN port on the Plusnet router.
Am I right in thinking this is possible, and in the best case I'd have WiFi from both routers to give me better coverage still.
Help much appreciated.
Its not overly complicated, and I've been doing it for years (where mesh doesn't make physical or financial sense).
On your spare router:
- turn OFF DHCP Server
- Set IP to a static IP you can remember, like 192.168.1.244 (depending on your network) - yours might be 192.168.0.xxx
- On your main active router and DHCP server (your 4/5g router in this case) - reserve the IP address you assign above to your spare router. This will be in the DHCP / DHCP server page. All this means is the address you assign to the spare router can't be given out to anything else - so there cannot be a conflict.
Thats it! You can log onto your spare router (with the IP address you assigned above) and set the wifi to whatever you like - you can create a new Wifi network, or use the same name and password as your 4g router's wifi - in which case devices will flip between the two seamlessly (both WLAN name and password need ot be identical).
Things to note:
- when you plug in your second router to configure it - because it's DHCP server will be active it may cause chaos - in which case, plug it direct into a laptop or PC with ethernet to config. You will have to set your laptop/PC IP addrfess to be in the same range. Once DHCP server is disabled you'll be OK.
- Google all of the above for more details - it's all out there, even spelt out for every specific router.
On your spare router:
- turn OFF DHCP Server
- Set IP to a static IP you can remember, like 192.168.1.244 (depending on your network) - yours might be 192.168.0.xxx
- On your main active router and DHCP server (your 4/5g router in this case) - reserve the IP address you assign above to your spare router. This will be in the DHCP / DHCP server page. All this means is the address you assign to the spare router can't be given out to anything else - so there cannot be a conflict.
Thats it! You can log onto your spare router (with the IP address you assigned above) and set the wifi to whatever you like - you can create a new Wifi network, or use the same name and password as your 4g router's wifi - in which case devices will flip between the two seamlessly (both WLAN name and password need ot be identical).
Things to note:
- when you plug in your second router to configure it - because it's DHCP server will be active it may cause chaos - in which case, plug it direct into a laptop or PC with ethernet to config. You will have to set your laptop/PC IP addrfess to be in the same range. Once DHCP server is disabled you'll be OK.
- Google all of the above for more details - it's all out there, even spelt out for every specific router.
Thanks!
I was just coming back on to edit my original post to say that I found this:
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-2n...
Your info is much more succinct though.
Much appreciated.
I was just coming back on to edit my original post to say that I found this:
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-2n...
Your info is much more succinct though.
Much appreciated.
Turtle Shed said:
Thanks!
I was just coming back on to edit my original post to say that I found this:
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-2n...
Your info is much more succinct though.
Much appreciated.
No worries - good link.I was just coming back on to edit my original post to say that I found this:
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-a-2n...
Your info is much more succinct though.
Much appreciated.
- Use .240 ( or .244 ) - its safer than .10 - IP addresses get handed out in order - .240 is likely never going to get handed out at home, so it avoids conflicts even without address reservations.
- reserve the address on your main router to absolutely guarantee no conflicts.
- as the link suggests - do it on a laptop / direct PC initially.
When I'm messing with routers this is the order of play
- check the default IP of the router. Lets assume it is 192.168.1.254
- change laptop/PC IP (network settings , TCP/IP V4, IP address, manual IP) to 192.168.1.1 (they key is both devices are in the same subnet - 192.168.1 - if they are not they can't see each other. If your router default IP is 192.10.1.99, then your PC must be 192.10.1.xx, for example)
- plug router into laptop/PC - and enter 192.168.1.254 into browser address bar.
- do all the DHCP disable, set static IP stuff etc.
- reboot router and check PC can still access it, and on the correct IP address.
- disconnect and plug router into live network and access from any PC to config Wifi
Quick update - Thanks Griffith, the system works in as much as I've now got the Plusnet Router doing its thing, same WiFi credentials so I have much better coverage now.
Two comments though, I wonder if you have any thoughts on these:
1 - When I log in to the Three router I can see the Plusnet one as a connected device at 192.168.0.254. I cannot use that IP address to log into its own admin though. (But I can if I plug the router into my PC directly.
2 - Three router is a ZTE MC888 - I haven't been able to find out how to reserve the above IP, but I did have a support chat with ZTE and they will be getting back to me, hopefully with an answer.
Cheers!
Two comments though, I wonder if you have any thoughts on these:
1 - When I log in to the Three router I can see the Plusnet one as a connected device at 192.168.0.254. I cannot use that IP address to log into its own admin though. (But I can if I plug the router into my PC directly.
2 - Three router is a ZTE MC888 - I haven't been able to find out how to reserve the above IP, but I did have a support chat with ZTE and they will be getting back to me, hopefully with an answer.
Cheers!
If you can't access your spare router on 0.254 on your LAN, it'll be because your subnets don't match. In simple terms, the subnet is the 3rd number in the IP address. 192.168.SUBNET.254
Your Three router needs to be on the same subnet. If its on 192.168.1.1, for example, you would not be able to call up 192.168.0.254 as the subnets don't match. Also , aothough your new extended wifi would show up as available, there would be no Internet (or any other LAN access) on it.
Just makes sure the spare router is on the same subnet your Three router already is. Don't change the Three router, change the spare router.
It's very unlikely you'll get an IP confilct on a .254 address but I'd use .250 to be safe. Some kit ships using .254 as its default address- thi smay also be why you can't access your spare router on the LAN
Your Three router needs to be on the same subnet. If its on 192.168.1.1, for example, you would not be able to call up 192.168.0.254 as the subnets don't match. Also , aothough your new extended wifi would show up as available, there would be no Internet (or any other LAN access) on it.
Just makes sure the spare router is on the same subnet your Three router already is. Don't change the Three router, change the spare router.
It's very unlikely you'll get an IP confilct on a .254 address but I'd use .250 to be safe. Some kit ships using .254 as its default address- thi smay also be why you can't access your spare router on the LAN
xeny said:
Alternatively, can you tell the ZTE to start allocating addresses from say .20 and put the Plusnet router below that address?
Indeed. You'd need to set the spare router to use DHCP client (not server!).I prefer static on extra routers as I can then make a note of them all (I have a fair few) in case I need to administer them
Griffith4ever said:
Your Three router needs to be on the same subnet. If its on 192.168.1.1, for example, you would not be able to call up 192.168.0.254 as the subnets don't match. Also , aothough your new extended wifi would show up as available, there would be no Internet (or any other LAN access) on it.
Won't you get working WiFi? The ex-router will simply bridge wired and WiFi traffic - it isn't as if it needs to interact with the packets, just bridge the two interfaces..xeny said:
Griffith4ever said:
Your Three router needs to be on the same subnet. If its on 192.168.1.1, for example, you would not be able to call up 192.168.0.254 as the subnets don't match. Also , aothough your new extended wifi would show up as available, there would be no Internet (or any other LAN access) on it.
Won't you get working WiFi? The ex-router will simply bridge wired and WiFi traffic - it isn't as if it needs to interact with the packets, just bridge the two interfaces..You can't even say "Default gateway = the other router" because the other router is on a different subnet, so it won't see it, at all.
They both have to be 192.168.SAME.whatever
I'm not referring to bridging. That's a whole other discussion, and both routers need to play ball with each other.
But the router won't be routing - that's why you use the LAN ports.
Imagine the router as three distinct components
NAT router (layer 3)
Switch (which doesn't care about IP addresses)
Wireless AP (which doesn't care about IP addresses)
Using a broadband router as an AP just uses the switch and the AP, and neither cares about IP addressing as far as I can see (certainly I've punted multiple subnets simultaneously across switches and APs without any trouble - obviously they can't communicate with each other without a router, but the only device in this case actually on a different subnet is the inside end of the NAT router, which I concur we can't communicate with in this scenario.
Imagine the router as three distinct components
NAT router (layer 3)
Switch (which doesn't care about IP addresses)
Wireless AP (which doesn't care about IP addresses)
Using a broadband router as an AP just uses the switch and the AP, and neither cares about IP addressing as far as I can see (certainly I've punted multiple subnets simultaneously across switches and APs without any trouble - obviously they can't communicate with each other without a router, but the only device in this case actually on a different subnet is the inside end of the NAT router, which I concur we can't communicate with in this scenario.
Hello all.
Sorry, I've been out all day and haven't had the opportunity to thank everyone for their comments. I shall digest things tomorrow but I can report that the Plusnet router was quite happily extending my WiFi earlier, with the same SSID/PWD credentials, meaning that I could move from room to room without having to reconnect.
Sorry, I've been out all day and haven't had the opportunity to thank everyone for their comments. I shall digest things tomorrow but I can report that the Plusnet router was quite happily extending my WiFi earlier, with the same SSID/PWD credentials, meaning that I could move from room to room without having to reconnect.
One other thing in addition to the above, you should ensure that the wi-fi security is the same on both devices, ideally WPA3. This might not be possible if the AP-only router is a bit older and only supports WPA2.
If you have different security protocols then hand-off between the devices may not be seamless.
If you have different security protocols then hand-off between the devices may not be seamless.
Speaking from experience with this, don’t bother! It’s a false economy.
A proper mesh Wi-Fi network is far far superior. I have an eero setup. It’s genuinely excellent, simple to install, works seamlessly, and provided a huge performance upgrade.
I was actually annoyed that I hadn’t installed one in the household sooner. The amount of time I’ve wasted, complaints received, and poor performance endured after years mucking about with various jerry-rigged DIY 2 WAP setups.
A proper mesh Wi-Fi network is far far superior. I have an eero setup. It’s genuinely excellent, simple to install, works seamlessly, and provided a huge performance upgrade.
I was actually annoyed that I hadn’t installed one in the household sooner. The amount of time I’ve wasted, complaints received, and poor performance endured after years mucking about with various jerry-rigged DIY 2 WAP setups.
Counterpoint: have three slave routers acting as APs since 2017. Works flawlessly. I upgraded the routers a couple of years ago to wi-fi 6 devices (TP-Link AX-10) but the older D-Link ones worked just as well.
Before that, in my old house, I ran with a single router AP since about 2011. Again, just worked, even though the main router was a BT HomeHub
In 2021 my telco offered me a trial of their mesh product and it was vastly inferior, needing four mesh devices in addition to the main router to even approach the same coverage (they predicted two would give same coverage!). Even with the four there were dead spots and random disconnects, and the overall throughout was lower when it was working.
I also disliked that I had to sign-in to the service just to get it working. You don’t have any external dependencies or privacy concerns with a roll-your-own AP solution.
Total cost for the three router APs was about €180, I think the mesh system was about double that.
My house is tricky with a lot of reinforced concrete and ufh so it’s probably not a surprise that a solution that leverages gigabit ethernet is better.
In a timber frame house a mesh system is probably fine, and there are cheaper options nowadays if you don’t mind selling your soul and data to Google, Amazon etc
If APs aren’t working properly then it’s down to the configuration or poor choice of equipment (ancient routers etc.)0
Before that, in my old house, I ran with a single router AP since about 2011. Again, just worked, even though the main router was a BT HomeHub
In 2021 my telco offered me a trial of their mesh product and it was vastly inferior, needing four mesh devices in addition to the main router to even approach the same coverage (they predicted two would give same coverage!). Even with the four there were dead spots and random disconnects, and the overall throughout was lower when it was working.
I also disliked that I had to sign-in to the service just to get it working. You don’t have any external dependencies or privacy concerns with a roll-your-own AP solution.
Total cost for the three router APs was about €180, I think the mesh system was about double that.
My house is tricky with a lot of reinforced concrete and ufh so it’s probably not a surprise that a solution that leverages gigabit ethernet is better.
In a timber frame house a mesh system is probably fine, and there are cheaper options nowadays if you don’t mind selling your soul and data to Google, Amazon etc
If APs aren’t working properly then it’s down to the configuration or poor choice of equipment (ancient routers etc.)0
Interesting points above, thank you.
The house that I've bought has solid block walls throughout, the only construction timber is the roof joists. Coverage inside with my two-router setup is perfectly fine now, I have the Three router on a window sill getting great mobile reception and the Plusnet positioned pretty much in the middle of the place.
What remains a small problem is that I am trying to control five smart bulbs which are installed in the outside lights, so that's another concrete wall for each which the signal has to penetrate.
I do actually have another Plusnet router kicking around, so now that I've learned what to do I'll give that a go as well. Once I'm happy with coverage I'll run cable to the AP locations, and to our PCs as well.
The house that I've bought has solid block walls throughout, the only construction timber is the roof joists. Coverage inside with my two-router setup is perfectly fine now, I have the Three router on a window sill getting great mobile reception and the Plusnet positioned pretty much in the middle of the place.
What remains a small problem is that I am trying to control five smart bulbs which are installed in the outside lights, so that's another concrete wall for each which the signal has to penetrate.
I do actually have another Plusnet router kicking around, so now that I've learned what to do I'll give that a go as well. Once I'm happy with coverage I'll run cable to the AP locations, and to our PCs as well.
dvs_dave said:
Speaking from experience with this, don’t bother! It’s a false economy.
What? £0 for an existing spare router, or £xx for a new mesh setup.How's that a false "economy"?
Sounds like you haven't set yours up correctly to be fair. Been doing it for years. I also have a mesh in my house (Orbi) but it makes no financial sense to extend that to my workshop, so I use another router.
Griffith4ever said:
dvs_dave said:
Speaking from experience with this, don’t bother! It’s a false economy.
What? £0 for an existing spare router, or £xx for a new mesh setup.How's that a false "economy"?
Sounds like you haven't set yours up correctly to be fair. Been doing it for years. I also have a mesh in my house (Orbi) but it makes no financial sense to extend that to my workshop, so I use another router.
I like you thought I knew it all and could do my own home-brew version, and it worked ok. But handoff between AP’s was inconsistent and performance suffered as a result. But ignorance was bliss, etc.
Turns out that equipment specifically designed for the job that can actively manage and steer devices between nodes actually works far better than equipment not designed to do that. Does lots of other useful things too around security, adblocking, network analytics, etc. My favorite bonus feature though is that it can automatically fail over to a wifi hotspot (such as the one on your phone) if the main internet connection goes down. Good luck getting your home brew setup to do any of this.
Anyway, I’m glad that your setup works for you as that’s all that actually matters. Ignorance is bliss afterall.
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