5G Router issues

[audi321]

Hi all, so thought I'd try and save a few quid by getting a 5G router and contract from Three and potentially binning off the home broadband.

But........whilst the speed test is much faster than my home broadband (180Mbps download, 12Mbps upload vs 30Mbps download and 15Mbps upload on broadband) the kids are moaning like hell that their Playstations are unusable for online gaming (just Fifa nothing major).

Why would this be? Is there anything I could try with the 5G router settings?

Thanks all.

Edited by audi321 on Wednesday 30th November 20:25

[nickd01]

I think you'll find the latency is what's killing the games - not the outright download speed.

When you do a speed check, look for the latency / ping (in ms) - not sure what online games need but I'd have thought it needs to be less than 30ms or so.

[audi321]

Ping is 42 so not too bad, but you think that’s what the problem is then? Is there a way to make it better?

[Captain_Morgan]

Could be the latency, could be that you’re now using CGnat which can also cause issues for gaming. Neither of which you can do much about, unless three offered a static ip option which would solve the CGnat question.

[Ham_and_Jam]

audi321 said:

Ping is 42 so not too bad, but you think that’s what the problem is then? Is there a way to make it better?

My ping is always between 2 and 4 for comparison. FTTP.

[GranpaB]

42ms ain't that good and i think this is the problem.

[rfsteel]

How is the 5G router connected to the network, as you could be Double NAT, and need a router that supported Bridged or PassThrough mode to ensure the that this doesn't happen.

Google said:

Double NAT
A double NAT happens if another router, for example a Nest Wifi router, is connected to the ISP modem or gateway. All this means is that data is going through a NAT process twice, which might cause a very small delay, of the order of milliseconds, to data getting in and out of your home.

[TonyRPH]

audi321 said:

Ping is 42 so not too bad, but you think that’s what the problem is then? Is there a way to make it better?

42ms is not very good for gaming, especially when you factor in others using the same connection, as that will increase the latency even further.

And then there's the contention ratios which means you could see worse performance at peak times for example.

Satellite broadband typically suffers from the same issue -good speed but poor latency.

Also, as others have mentioned you could also be behind double NAT which is an even bigger problem for many games.

My ping at home is typically 16ms and that's on a 40/10 connection (I typically only get 6m upload).

[Captain_Morgan]

rfsteel said:

How is the 5G router connected to the network, as you could be Double NAT, and need a router that supported Bridged or PassThrough mode to ensure the that this doesn't happen.

Google said:

Double NAT
A double NAT happens if another router, for example a Nest Wifi router, is connected to the ISP modem or gateway. All this means is that data is going through a NAT process twice, which might cause a very small delay, of the order of milliseconds, to data getting in and out of your home.

It’s a mobile carrier, unless they have opted for a static ip they will be behind CGnat which is essentially double nat.

[rfsteel]

Captain_Morgan said:

rfsteel said:

How is the 5G router connected to the network, as you could be Double NAT, and need a router that supported Bridged or PassThrough mode to ensure the that this doesn't happen.

Google said:

Double NAT
A double NAT happens if another router, for example a Nest Wifi router, is connected to the ISP modem or gateway. All this means is that data is going through a NAT process twice, which might cause a very small delay, of the order of milliseconds, to data getting in and out of your home.

It’s a mobile carrier, unless they have opted for a static ip they will be behind CGnat which is essentially double nat.

It use a Three and EE 4G connection at home, and as long as I have my B818 in bridged mode, I have no issue with remote access for RDP and Plex, I just use a dynamic DNS service to deal with the possible changing external IP address.

[audi321]

This is interesting as I always assumed that 5G routers would be the death of home broadband but it appears it might not be.

However......

After investigating the router admin settings, it appears I do not have a 5G signal, just a (very strong) LTE signal. Just done another speedtest and it's all over the place, figures are jumping around all over the place.



The odd thing is, literally everything else is fine (TV - firestick, work laptops (zoom, teams etc), personal laptops web pages load instantly), it's just the 2 playstations which are unusable. The even weirder thing is that they can tether their iphones to their playstations and they're fine - and they're using the same network as the 5G router (Three)!

Could it be the router is not geared up for LTE and although it receives it, will behave much nicer when I get on a 5G signal? I'm moving soon, so I know there is a strong 5G signal at the new house. Router is a Zyxel NR5103 I believe (although Three have rebranded it).

Edited by audi321 on Wednesday 30th November 20:28

[Ham_and_Jam]

You could try putting it in LTE mode only in the band management settings.

Might work better if you only get LTE anyway.

[audi321]

More research tells me that one of the big differences between LTE and 5G is the lower latency, so hopefully when I get to the new house and on 5G the problem will disappear. I'll report back in a few weeks

[rfsteel]

audi321 said:

More research tells me that one of the big differences between LTE and 5G is the lower latency, so hopefully when I get to the new house and on 5G the problem will disappear. I'll report back in a few weeks

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/zyxel-nr5...

Maybe be of some use on how to force 5G connection and setting up bridged mode on your router

[audi321]

rfsteel said:

audi321 said:

More research tells me that one of the big differences between LTE and 5G is the lower latency, so hopefully when I get to the new house and on 5G the problem will disappear. I'll report back in a few weeks

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/zyxel-nr5...

Maybe be of some use on how to force 5G connection and setting up bridged mode on your router

Thanks, I tried the 5G connection force settings but still no joy, and I need it on wifi so bridge mode is not of use to me.

[somouk]

The playstations will be very sensitive to latency as a lot of the communcation for audio and games can be over UDP not TCP. Most apps use TCP as it has built in error checking but that adds latency to the protocol.

UDP is lighter and faster but relies on things arriving in the right order.

If your connection is all over the shop which looking at the loaded ping scores it will be, that will be a nighmare to game on, especially as both are on it at the same time. As mentioned above, the way the technology is delivered via the mobile network is also different to a normal broadband connection as you will be behind the carrier grade network, this can also have implications on apps and even things like Philps Hue doesn't really support it properly.

I've had a 4G backup line for years and would never look to replace my proper broadband line with it for gaming.

[audi321]

Thanks for the info. It doesn’t explain how they can each tether their iPhones and not have this problem though. They’re all on the Three network (they’re on 4G with their phones)

[TonyRPH]

audi321 said:

Thanks for the info. It doesn’t explain how they can each tether their iPhones and not have this problem though. They’re all on the Three network (they’re on 4G with their phones)

This is likely because they have a dedicated connection, and it's not being shared with others in the family.

What is their ping like in this situation? Both unloaded and under load?

[buggalugs]

Hasn't been mentioned yet but try moving the router around the house, preferably up in a window in the direction of the nearest 5G mast. You can look at 3's coverage checker to get an idea where the strongest signals might be. You might need to balance the location of the router for 5G vs the distance between the router and the playstations on wifi.