Laptop for secondary school
Discussion
I want to get my eldest a laptop for homework and Minecraft. The budget is about £500-600, which has kiboshed the plan to get him a MacBook Air. I've used Macs for the last 25 years and don't know where to start with a PC. Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions?
It doesn't have to bought this weekend, but if there are any particularly great deals to be had on Black Friday then I'm happy to take advantage.
It doesn't have to bought this weekend, but if there are any particularly great deals to be had on Black Friday then I'm happy to take advantage.
Beware of refurbished and Black Friday 'deals' selling things cheap which have older hardware. Ultimately you're just paying for CPU disk and RAM. There's lots of 'deals' out there that have quite old CPUs, eg 9 or 10th gen Intel.
At this price point there's no point getting in to nuanced technical details on this hardware of that, I'd suggest when you see a deal just quickly check the overall CPU score on cpu benchmark and compare it to other options.
As an example I was advising my sister a few days ago for a laptop for a later sage of primary school age kid, for similar use that you've asked about (Roblox instead of Minecraft...). I had thought to find a i5 and avoid the i3s, however comparing a 11th gen i5 to a 12th gen i3 they are about the same cpubenchmark score, yet the price was a bit less for the i3. I then compared the i3 to an AMD processor which was also the same score and again slightly cheaper, so went with that. Getting a more recently released processor is also generally preferable and the cpubenchmark site provides the release date.
At this price point there's no point getting in to nuanced technical details on this hardware of that, I'd suggest when you see a deal just quickly check the overall CPU score on cpu benchmark and compare it to other options.
As an example I was advising my sister a few days ago for a laptop for a later sage of primary school age kid, for similar use that you've asked about (Roblox instead of Minecraft...). I had thought to find a i5 and avoid the i3s, however comparing a 11th gen i5 to a 12th gen i3 they are about the same cpubenchmark score, yet the price was a bit less for the i3. I then compared the i3 to an AMD processor which was also the same score and again slightly cheaper, so went with that. Getting a more recently released processor is also generally preferable and the cpubenchmark site provides the release date.
I recently bought my son an ASUS Zenbook Flip UX363EA and he loves it. The screen is great and can be folded back so you can write on it and I bought a 2nd hand Dell TB16 Thunderbolt dock from Cex so he can use an external monitor with it. The laptop was £654 from Currys (I have a work tech plan so I can pay interest free over 12 months) and the dock was about £50.
Thanks all for the advice. I've seen this HP which seems well specced for the money. Any reasons to avoid? It's also not really flimsy and plasticky like some of the entry level machines.
https://www.currys.co.uk/products/hp-pavilion-14dv...
https://www.currys.co.uk/products/hp-pavilion-14dv...
Crap support. My Mrs got a HP envy, it only got 3 years of updates from HP, which I discovered is par for the course for their consumer machines,
I think Dell are patching my consumer grade Inspiron (HP Pavilion equivalent) for 5 years. I’m 4th year in, its still getting updated by Dell, although they aren’t supporting Windows 11, so I am not upgrading the OS.
Windows manufacturer update policies are more rigorous and longer for more expensive machines such Dells high end XPS lineup and business machines. Dells XPS from my model year are getting Windows 11 support for instance. My business HP zBook got 5 years of support out of the gate with the option to purchase additional years.
In the Windows world, you need to get a high end prosumer machine or business machine to get anything approaching the length of support you enjoyed with Apple. With HP that is Elitebook, Probook, zBook. Of course these are substantially more expensive than their consumer lineup, Pavilion, Envy etc.
As ever, you get what you pay for.
Seeing as you are from the Apple world, I should also explain Microsoft Windows updates are separate to the driver pack and other software updates from the laptop manufacturer. Microsoft will push updates at you regardless of manufacturer support for your laptop. These machine / OS updates are piecemeal and aren’t delivered as a unified single download as with Apple.
This means Windows upgrades can break machines. Has happened to me twice now, trying to get one laptop from Windows 7 to 10 and another from Windows 10 to 11.
For a long time Apple user, is saving £500 over getting a Air worth opening up the can of worms that is Windows?
I think Dell are patching my consumer grade Inspiron (HP Pavilion equivalent) for 5 years. I’m 4th year in, its still getting updated by Dell, although they aren’t supporting Windows 11, so I am not upgrading the OS.
Windows manufacturer update policies are more rigorous and longer for more expensive machines such Dells high end XPS lineup and business machines. Dells XPS from my model year are getting Windows 11 support for instance. My business HP zBook got 5 years of support out of the gate with the option to purchase additional years.
In the Windows world, you need to get a high end prosumer machine or business machine to get anything approaching the length of support you enjoyed with Apple. With HP that is Elitebook, Probook, zBook. Of course these are substantially more expensive than their consumer lineup, Pavilion, Envy etc.
As ever, you get what you pay for.
Seeing as you are from the Apple world, I should also explain Microsoft Windows updates are separate to the driver pack and other software updates from the laptop manufacturer. Microsoft will push updates at you regardless of manufacturer support for your laptop. These machine / OS updates are piecemeal and aren’t delivered as a unified single download as with Apple.
This means Windows upgrades can break machines. Has happened to me twice now, trying to get one laptop from Windows 7 to 10 and another from Windows 10 to 11.
For a long time Apple user, is saving £500 over getting a Air worth opening up the can of worms that is Windows?
Edited by wyson on Friday 9th December 00:55
You should also factor in the cost of a decent anti virus / firewall for the Windows laptop. Say £100 over 5 years of use?
Sure there are free versions, but they’ve all come bottom of the pack for protection on reviews I’ve read.
I know many Mac users don’t bother with this sort of protection. I don’t!
Sure there are free versions, but they’ve all come bottom of the pack for protection on reviews I’ve read.
I know many Mac users don’t bother with this sort of protection. I don’t!
That HP laptop seems a fair spec for the price. 12th gen CPU and appropriate amount of disk and RAM. Note that there might be some slight reductions in price in Jan sales, although you'll always need to keep a sharp eye on the spec as it's often the older stuff reduced (ie 11th and 10th gen CPUs).
You don't need separate paid for AV - the built in windows AV is good enough. I'd only suggest that when you set up the laptop that you make the kids accounts normal users and yourself and account which is admin rights. This will prevent them installing stuff and they will have to come and ask you.
Dell and HP are fairly similar in terms of support. You'll get individuals who don't like one or the other, or has a bad story about each. In terms of 'updates' for the laptop for however many years, it doesn't really matter for a laptop as you can always just do a clean install of windows in a few years if you are worried about patches. Windows itself will update for however many years regardless of the underlying laptop manufacturer. If you're not familiar with doing a clean install of windows, then tell your kid to learn, that's the type of skills kids need to be picking up from an early age anyway! Or come back on PH forums in a few years and there'll be plenty of people to guide you through it.
You don't need separate paid for AV - the built in windows AV is good enough. I'd only suggest that when you set up the laptop that you make the kids accounts normal users and yourself and account which is admin rights. This will prevent them installing stuff and they will have to come and ask you.
Dell and HP are fairly similar in terms of support. You'll get individuals who don't like one or the other, or has a bad story about each. In terms of 'updates' for the laptop for however many years, it doesn't really matter for a laptop as you can always just do a clean install of windows in a few years if you are worried about patches. Windows itself will update for however many years regardless of the underlying laptop manufacturer. If you're not familiar with doing a clean install of windows, then tell your kid to learn, that's the type of skills kids need to be picking up from an early age anyway! Or come back on PH forums in a few years and there'll be plenty of people to guide you through it.
A clean install of Windows isn’t going to compensate for the laptop manufacturer not releasing supporting software, updated bios and a driver pack.
My Win 7 to Win 10 upgrade was a clean install, failed miserably. BSOD every 30 mins.
Someone else here, the features on their Lenovo stopped working, until they installed Lenovo’s support bundle.
My Win 7 to Win 10 upgrade was a clean install, failed miserably. BSOD every 30 mins.
Someone else here, the features on their Lenovo stopped working, until they installed Lenovo’s support bundle.
Edited by wyson on Friday 9th December 08:04
wyson said:
Crap support. My Mrs got a HP envy, it only got 3 years of updates from HP, which I discovered is par for the course for their consumer machines,
I think Dell are patching my consumer grade Inspiron (HP Pavilion equivalent) for 5 years. I’m 4th year in, its still getting updated by Dell, although they aren’t supporting Windows 11, so I am not upgrading the OS.
Windows manufacturer update policies are more rigorous and longer for more expensive machines such Dells high end XPS lineup and business machines. Dells XPS from my model year are getting Windows 11 support for instance. My business HP zBook got 5 years of support out of the gate with the option to purchase additional years.
In the Windows world, you need to get a high end prosumer machine or business machine to get anything approaching the length of support you enjoyed with Apple. With HP that is Elitebook, Probook, zBook. Of course these are substantially more expensive than their consumer lineup, Pavilion, Envy etc.
As ever, you get what you pay for.
Seeing as you are from the Apple world, I should also explain Microsoft Windows updates are separate to the driver pack and other software updates from the laptop manufacturer. Microsoft will push updates at you regardless of manufacturer support for your laptop. These machine / OS updates are piecemeal and aren’t delivered as a unified single download as with Apple.
This means Windows upgrades can break machines. Has happened to me twice now, trying to get one laptop from Windows 7 to 10 and another from Windows 10 to 11.
For a long time Apple user, is saving £500 over getting a Air worth opening up the can of worms that is Windows?
Assuming it works in any given version of Windows, it’ll likely work forever with that version of Windows if you want it to.I think Dell are patching my consumer grade Inspiron (HP Pavilion equivalent) for 5 years. I’m 4th year in, its still getting updated by Dell, although they aren’t supporting Windows 11, so I am not upgrading the OS.
Windows manufacturer update policies are more rigorous and longer for more expensive machines such Dells high end XPS lineup and business machines. Dells XPS from my model year are getting Windows 11 support for instance. My business HP zBook got 5 years of support out of the gate with the option to purchase additional years.
In the Windows world, you need to get a high end prosumer machine or business machine to get anything approaching the length of support you enjoyed with Apple. With HP that is Elitebook, Probook, zBook. Of course these are substantially more expensive than their consumer lineup, Pavilion, Envy etc.
As ever, you get what you pay for.
Seeing as you are from the Apple world, I should also explain Microsoft Windows updates are separate to the driver pack and other software updates from the laptop manufacturer. Microsoft will push updates at you regardless of manufacturer support for your laptop. These machine / OS updates are piecemeal and aren’t delivered as a unified single download as with Apple.
This means Windows upgrades can break machines. Has happened to me twice now, trying to get one laptop from Windows 7 to 10 and another from Windows 10 to 11.
For a long time Apple user, is saving £500 over getting a Air worth opening up the can of worms that is Windows?
Edited by wyson on Friday 9th December 00:55
I know laptops can be fickle… I’ve had a few Asus laptops and a gaming MSI one and they all still work fine 15, 11, and 5 years later… from XP to Win 10 (not tried 11 yet but no doubt in a year or two it’ll work on everything as they extend support)
Clean installs needing particular driver packs are rare, the vast majority of times windows covers it all. Dells and HPs are pretty good for this in the last 5 or so years.
Non OS parts is really just the BIOS, and they are extremely rare to get a new update released after about 3 years anyway.
Non OS parts is really just the BIOS, and they are extremely rare to get a new update released after about 3 years anyway.
Also you won't get Genius bar support. They unlocked a 7 year MacBook Pro for me for 'free'. It had been sitting idle for a while, I forgot the login password, but I needed data off it. Booked an appointment with my local Apple shop online, they unlocked it while I waited with proof of purchase.
Good luck finding a PC manufacturer who will do something like that for you for a 7 year old machine, way outside of warranty or support package.
I will also say the biggest reason why I became reasonably pc literate is because with my first Windows pentium desktop, I got sick and tired of waiting 45 mins to talk to someone on the end of a support line who could do nothing to help. Literally wasted days and days.
Apologies if I'm coming over as pushy, I'm trying to save you from going over to the dark side! Obviously too late for people like eein. lol. TBF generally, a basic windows laptop will be fine if you go in expecting Ryan Air rather than Singapore Airlines business class. They might fly the similar aircraft but the experience will be different. Just be wary of comparing aircraft specs and ticket price and making your decision solely based on that.
Good luck finding a PC manufacturer who will do something like that for you for a 7 year old machine, way outside of warranty or support package.
I will also say the biggest reason why I became reasonably pc literate is because with my first Windows pentium desktop, I got sick and tired of waiting 45 mins to talk to someone on the end of a support line who could do nothing to help. Literally wasted days and days.
Apologies if I'm coming over as pushy, I'm trying to save you from going over to the dark side! Obviously too late for people like eein. lol. TBF generally, a basic windows laptop will be fine if you go in expecting Ryan Air rather than Singapore Airlines business class. They might fly the similar aircraft but the experience will be different. Just be wary of comparing aircraft specs and ticket price and making your decision solely based on that.
Edited by wyson on Friday 9th December 13:24
serious fanboy chip there!
I get the apple thing. Stuff just works, at least as far as they enable it. But you pay for it. It's a cost benefit thing. These days living with windows is as easy and reliable as apple. So those looking not to spend excessive money can be quite happy with windows.
I get the apple thing. Stuff just works, at least as far as they enable it. But you pay for it. It's a cost benefit thing. These days living with windows is as easy and reliable as apple. So those looking not to spend excessive money can be quite happy with windows.
stemll said:
My son has a Microsoft Surface Laptop Go. In budget with 4GB, a smidge over with 8GB. Small screen at 12.4 but it's a very nice screen and the laptop feels nice and solid with an aluminium lid and aluminium/polycarbonate resin base.
Worth a look
I hope you aren't using it now Worth a look
Tycho said:
stemll said:
My son has a Microsoft Surface Laptop Go. In budget with 4GB, a smidge over with 8GB. Small screen at 12.4 but it's a very nice screen and the laptop feels nice and solid with an aluminium lid and aluminium/polycarbonate resin base.
Worth a look
I hope you aren't using it now Worth a look
I really should know better than to go anywhere near the back button on this site.To avoid confusing everyone else what was going on here, I have now deleted the duplicate post.
stemll said:
Tycho said:
stemll said:
My son has a Microsoft Surface Laptop Go. In budget with 4GB, a smidge over with 8GB. Small screen at 12.4 but it's a very nice screen and the laptop feels nice and solid with an aluminium lid and aluminium/polycarbonate resin base.
Worth a look
I hope you aren't using it now Worth a look
I really should know better than to go anywhere near the back button on this site.To avoid confusing everyone else what was going on here, I have now deleted the duplicate post.
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