Network refusal to block imei
Discussion
Hi, today I tried to make an insurance claim for a lost/stolen iphone 11 pro which is covered on my home contents.
I followed the instructions to the letter, police ref no: erased phone, removed form account etc... I then called SKY mobile to get the imei blocked and they said they couldn't as I did not buy the phone from them. I called apple who said they couldn't do it either so I was a bit stuck and in the dark.
After many hours of back and forth, it turns out that it does not matter that I bought the phone outright and use SKY as sim only, because as soon as I put a sim in a new phone SKY know (im not sure how but they do), and they confirmed this as they knew my wife was using a different phone, and they also knew I had gone back to an old iphone 7 with a replacement sim. However, even though I had been using the 11 pro since last December they are saying they have no record of it and somehow I should have told them when I got it.
I am totally confused as I have not claimed before, and as far as I knew I had done what was required.Each time they knew we had swapped phones we had not told them, but this time they are saying I should have.
Have Sky had a software issue, cocked up and pulling the wool over my eyes?
I followed the instructions to the letter, police ref no: erased phone, removed form account etc... I then called SKY mobile to get the imei blocked and they said they couldn't as I did not buy the phone from them. I called apple who said they couldn't do it either so I was a bit stuck and in the dark.
After many hours of back and forth, it turns out that it does not matter that I bought the phone outright and use SKY as sim only, because as soon as I put a sim in a new phone SKY know (im not sure how but they do), and they confirmed this as they knew my wife was using a different phone, and they also knew I had gone back to an old iphone 7 with a replacement sim. However, even though I had been using the 11 pro since last December they are saying they have no record of it and somehow I should have told them when I got it.
I am totally confused as I have not claimed before, and as far as I knew I had done what was required.Each time they knew we had swapped phones we had not told them, but this time they are saying I should have.
Have Sky had a software issue, cocked up and pulling the wool over my eyes?
Edited by lingus75 on Monday 21st November 15:37
Stevieg seems to have got his sorted eventually ... https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Mobile/Sky-told-m...
Each time your device attaches to the network, a note of the IMEI is stored by the network in their home location register. The network then makes sure that the device is allowed to access their network and not blocked. The IMEI coupled with the IMSI number from your SIM is used by the network to locate you when transiting calls and data. The network absolutely know what device you're using on their network, they have to in order to maintain auditable records and they have to retain that info for 12 months.
I imagine they're pushing back as the device isn't locked to their network as you bought it separately and there's no contract outstanding on it? Historically, Networks were on board with IMEI blocking as the main use for a stolen device was, as a device with a new SIM on the network. Nowadays, with smart phones such as iPhones that's unlikely as the OS security in an iPhone is for more robust than can be achieved by blocking the IMEI from the home location register so networks tend to rely on the inbuilt security of the phone to prevent it from connecting to their network. when they own the phone they may well be more interested in blocking it. They're no longer as interested as most phones are now either stripped for parts or flashed with a new IMEI in any case so blocking them achieves very little.
It’s easy for network providers to point you to the manufacturer but IMEI blocking is done from the home location registry in the network with Apple and Samsung don’t have access to as they’re not network providers.
Either way OP, I wouldn't waste too much time on it. have the insurance paid out? If they have i'd suggest leaving it with them as it's their phone now. You'll just be fighting against outdated policies with network providers otherwise.
I imagine they're pushing back as the device isn't locked to their network as you bought it separately and there's no contract outstanding on it? Historically, Networks were on board with IMEI blocking as the main use for a stolen device was, as a device with a new SIM on the network. Nowadays, with smart phones such as iPhones that's unlikely as the OS security in an iPhone is for more robust than can be achieved by blocking the IMEI from the home location register so networks tend to rely on the inbuilt security of the phone to prevent it from connecting to their network. when they own the phone they may well be more interested in blocking it. They're no longer as interested as most phones are now either stripped for parts or flashed with a new IMEI in any case so blocking them achieves very little.
It’s easy for network providers to point you to the manufacturer but IMEI blocking is done from the home location registry in the network with Apple and Samsung don’t have access to as they’re not network providers.
Either way OP, I wouldn't waste too much time on it. have the insurance paid out? If they have i'd suggest leaving it with them as it's their phone now. You'll just be fighting against outdated policies with network providers otherwise.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st November 16:02
sebdangerfield said:
Either way OP, I wouldn't waste too much time on it. have the insurance paid out? If they have i'd suggest leaving it with them as it's their phone now. You'll just be fighting against outdated policies with network providers otherwise.
No they wont allow me to claim as it isnt blocked on the insurance database, and the kicker is that by trying to claim my home insurance will be rated next year. Double kick in the plums.Edited by sebdangerfield on Monday 21st November 16:02
In that case, I’d make a formal complaint to sky outlining they’re preventing you from claiming on your insurance and make sure you tell them that you’ll be taking the matter to offcom after the statutory period should sky not resolve the issue. They may be more keen to sort it as offcom will charge them to investigate.
sebdangerfield said:
In that case, I’d make a formal complaint to sky outlining they’re preventing you from claiming on your insurance and make sure you tell them that you’ll be taking the matter to offcom after the statutory period should sky not resolve the issue. They may be more keen to sort it as offcom will charge them to investigate.
They point blank refuse to admit that I ever used the phone. All they can see was that I have always used my old iphone 7 (which is what I have gone back to for the time being), which interestingly showed up on their systems straight away when I put the replacement sim in it a few days ago. Every phone we ever used is logged.... apart from the the 11 pro I am trying to claim on.Is it incompetence, or them just not wanting to help? which would be strange as I was on the phone to them for 30 mins earlier. It would have been quicker for them to block it. The lady genuinely couldnt see the phone on he system, or so it seems.
bigandclever said:
Stevieg seems to have got his sorted eventually ... https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Mobile/Sky-told-m...
I spoke to the insurer and unless imei is on the database then no go on the claim.lingus75 said:
bigandclever said:
Stevieg seems to have got his sorted eventually ... https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Mobile/Sky-told-m...
I spoke to the insurer and unless imei is on the database then no go on the claim.https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/... , for example.
bigandclever said:
Yeah, the point was you speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about at Sky in the chat.
https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/... , for example.
Aha, I will log into that site tomorrow, thanks.https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/... , for example.
lingus75 said:
They point blank refuse to admit that I ever used the phone. All they can see was that I have always used my old iphone 7 (which is what I have gone back to for the time being), which interestingly showed up on their systems straight away when I put the replacement sim in it a few days ago. Every phone we ever used is logged.... apart from the the 11 pro I am trying to claim on.
Is it incompetence, or them just not wanting to help? which would be strange as I was on the phone to them for 30 mins earlier. It would have been quicker for them to block it. The lady genuinely couldnt see the phone on he system, or so it seems.
Ah I understand. That’s really odd and not something I’ve heard of before. Logically working it through though; for an operator to create billable records they need both an IMEI and IMSI. They simply can’t have one without the other. I wonder if you’d get the IMEI if you requested a moth or so or your historic billing data. Is it incompetence, or them just not wanting to help? which would be strange as I was on the phone to them for 30 mins earlier. It would have been quicker for them to block it. The lady genuinely couldnt see the phone on he system, or so it seems.
Was the phone in use long? I could imagine if it was only used on WiFi calling then the operator could have only seen the default network IMEI for voip which is different from your handset imei.
sebdangerfield said:
lingus75 said:
Is it incompetence, or them just not wanting to help? which would be strange as I was on the phone to them for 30 mins earlier. It would have been quicker for them to block it. The lady genuinely couldnt see the phone on he system, or so it seems.
Ah I understand. That’s really odd and not something I’ve heard of before. Logically working it through though; for an operator to create billable records they need both an IMEI and IMSI. They simply can’t have one without the other. I wonder if you’d get the IMEI if you requested a moth or so or your historic billing data. sebdangerfield said:
Ah I understand. That’s really odd and not something I’ve heard of before. Logically working it through though; for an operator to create billable records they need both an IMEI and IMSI. They simply can’t have one without the other. I wonder if you’d get the IMEI if you requested a moth or so or your historic billing data.
Was the phone in use long? I could imagine if it was only used on WiFi calling then the operator could have only seen the default network IMEI for voip which is different from your handset imei.
The phone was in heavy use on Wifi and 4g all over the country for at least 10 months. Very heavy 4g data usage, GPS usage as used it for strava, and a lot of voice calls.Was the phone in use long? I could imagine if it was only used on WiFi calling then the operator could have only seen the default network IMEI for voip which is different from your handset imei.
Jakg said:
sebdangerfield said:
lingus75 said:
Is it incompetence, or them just not wanting to help? which would be strange as I was on the phone to them for 30 mins earlier. It would have been quicker for them to block it. The lady genuinely couldnt see the phone on he system, or so it seems.
Consumer (monthly) bills don't show IMEI's - if it was on a network-supplied handset (which I know it wasn't), it would probably only be on the delivery note.Jakg said:
Consumer (monthly) bills don't show IMEI's - if it was on a network-supplied handset (which I know it wasn't), it would probably only be on the delivery note.
I did think it’d be a long shot, I don’t get consumer data very often but the one I do have (from Orange if you want to date it!) did have IMEI listed without the luhn check digit. lingus75 said:
So, im not very technical, but am I understanding that perhaps what SKY are saying is plausible?
No, it’s not just implausible, it’s impossible for anything to connect to a mobile network without an IMEI. Given your usage there should be a record of your device with Sky. I can’t think of anything else to try other than a complaint. As has been mentioned each network maintains a list of IMEI, IMSI, SIMID etc, in fact this is fed into a master database which is queried to route calls/text messages etc from one network to another. So 100% they know who has was device, what SIM etc, I wonder if Sky don't get all of this information as they are piggybacking onto another network.... O2 for example, but I doubt it.
sebdangerfield said:
Jakg said:
Consumer (monthly) bills don't show IMEI's - if it was on a network-supplied handset (which I know it wasn't), it would probably only be on the delivery note.
I did think it’d be a long shot, I don’t get consumer data very often but the one I do have (from Orange if you want to date it!) did have IMEI listed without the luhn check digit. It may well have been on Orange - but obviously that's not been a thing for a long time.
I also have a SAR for EE & Three and it's not in there, either.
I really appreciate all the advice so far. I just want to make sure if I go down the complaint route I can at least pretend to know what I am going on about!!!
So, I will call SKY, ask to speak to a tech person and quote some of the info on here, if thats okay, and will let you know how I get on!
Cheers everyone
So, I will call SKY, ask to speak to a tech person and quote some of the info on here, if thats okay, and will let you know how I get on!
Cheers everyone
Sky are saying that they still cant see the imei and there is nothing they can do. They then said that because I only cancelled the sim when the phone was stolen they cant blacklist the phone now.
I raised three points, firstly, I did ask to blacklist the phone and sim, but was told as I didnt buy the phone from them they can do nothing. Secondly, how did they know I didnt ask for the phone to be blacklisted as they hadnt listened to the call. Finally, if they are now stating the only reason they cant blacklist the phone is because (wrongly), they assumed I hadnt asked for the phone to be blacklisted then that would imply they can actually see the phone!!
Again, still on hold. They seem to be tying themselves in knots desperate to find a way out.
I raised three points, firstly, I did ask to blacklist the phone and sim, but was told as I didnt buy the phone from them they can do nothing. Secondly, how did they know I didnt ask for the phone to be blacklisted as they hadnt listened to the call. Finally, if they are now stating the only reason they cant blacklist the phone is because (wrongly), they assumed I hadnt asked for the phone to be blacklisted then that would imply they can actually see the phone!!
Again, still on hold. They seem to be tying themselves in knots desperate to find a way out.
How old is the Sky Mobile SIM - when did you first start using it?
I'm wondering if there has been a cock-up by their host network which underwent an ownership change in June 2021 (when Liberty Global and Telefonica O2 formed the 50:50 joint venture Virgin Media O2).
Depending on whether the SIM pre- or post- dated whatever changes went on it's details may have slipped through the cracks. However, I don't know how much disruption Sky Mobile as an MVNO has endured through the change in ownership - just a guess.
I'm wondering if there has been a cock-up by their host network which underwent an ownership change in June 2021 (when Liberty Global and Telefonica O2 formed the 50:50 joint venture Virgin Media O2).
Depending on whether the SIM pre- or post- dated whatever changes went on it's details may have slipped through the cracks. However, I don't know how much disruption Sky Mobile as an MVNO has endured through the change in ownership - just a guess.
lingus75 said:
Sky are saying that they still cant see the imei and there is nothing they can do. They then said that because I only cancelled the sim when the phone was stolen they cant blacklist the phone now.
I raised three points, firstly, I did ask to blacklist the phone and sim, but was told as I didnt buy the phone from them they can do nothing. Secondly, how did they know I didnt ask for the phone to be blacklisted as they hadnt listened to the call. Finally, if they are now stating the only reason they cant blacklist the phone is because (wrongly), they assumed I hadnt asked for the phone to be blacklisted then that would imply they can actually see the phone!!
Again, still on hold. They seem to be tying themselves in knots desperate to find a way out.
Historically they will know what IMEI/IMSI you have/had, as they will have had to push out settings to the device in question for it to work on the network, surely it's easy to go back to the date you informed them of the theft and they can then see a new IMEI, new IMSI being paired together, i.e. your new phone and SIM?I raised three points, firstly, I did ask to blacklist the phone and sim, but was told as I didnt buy the phone from them they can do nothing. Secondly, how did they know I didnt ask for the phone to be blacklisted as they hadnt listened to the call. Finally, if they are now stating the only reason they cant blacklist the phone is because (wrongly), they assumed I hadnt asked for the phone to be blacklisted then that would imply they can actually see the phone!!
Again, still on hold. They seem to be tying themselves in knots desperate to find a way out.
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