Network trouble

[RizzoTheRat]

I've switched from using my ISP's modem as as a router, to using my TP-Link Deco P9 as a router instead. Annoyingly the ISP's device has the settings locked down so I have to ask them to enable passthrough mode, meaning it's currently "double NAT'ing", but I'm guessing that won't impact my issue.

Most stuff in the house is on wireless and working fine, however my Synology NAS isn't showing up on the network. http://find.synology.com finds it on 192.168.178.166, but won't connect to it, and if I ping that IP address it's unreachable.

192.168.178.xxx is what the ISP's router used to assign, the Deco seems to be assigning things to 192.183.68.xxx, so does the NAS think it's on the old IP address still but the router's not seeing that IP?

I only have 2 other devices (excluding the other Deco nodes which I factory reset) on the wired network at the moment, an Aeotech smart hub which is showing as 192.168.68.xxx (and working fine) and a Pi which also doesn't seem to be showing up either.

Any ideas?

[xeny]

Power cycle the Synology so it picks up an address from the new router on the right 192.183.68.xxx IP address? If you're the careful type, manually configure a laptop onto the old subnet and shut it down gracefully rather than pulling the plug.

If you're lucky, you may fund leaving the synology unplugged from the network for 5 minutes and then replugging it will make it get a new address without a reboot.

[RizzoTheRat]

I tried shutting it down (a google found that holding the power button until it beeps triggers a soft shutdown, which was a surprise when that's usually a hard reboot on a PC), and left it 15 minutes or so before restarting it, and that didn't help.

[somouk]

Change you DHCP subnet mask to be 255.255.0.0 or a /16 and then see if you can talk to it.

Alternatively, plug directly in to the synology with another laptop on a cable, set a manual IP on that device and open up the admin for the Synology and sort out the IP addressing on it. I would bet it’s on a static.

[xeny]

Just to check, it isn't plugged into the ISP router is it?

[Chimune]

If the other 2 ethernet devices can't be seen either, stop messing with the synology. Its a routing issue between the isp box default Lan, and the deco subnet.
I'm not sure how the deco works (presumed mesh of some kind) but you need to get the deco to provide a dhcp address to the physical devices, or allow traffic to pass (route) between the 2 subnets.

[RizzoTheRat]

Network is Modem - Deco router - 8 port Switch - NAS

Smart hub is ethernet and working ok, as is the TV box, the Pi's not working but I only built that the other day and it might not be set up properly (adding a pi-hole is how this all started...) . TV box and Pi are both on a 5 port switch connected to the 8 port.

Neither of our laptops have ethernet sockets on them, which is annoying.

Think I've just spotted the problem thanks to a memory jog, I've reserved 192.168.178.166 for a specific MAC address in the ISP's router settings, so presumably set a fixed IP on the NAS as well.

Presumably if I connect the NAS direct to the ISP router it will connect properly and I'd be able to access it via the ISP box's wifi?

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Sunday 3rd July 19:54

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Sunday 3rd July 19:55

[xeny]

RizzoTheRat said:

Presumably if I connect the NAS direct to the ISP router it will connect properly and I'd be able to access it via the ISP box's wifi?

should work fine.

[RizzoTheRat]

Phew, that worked, panic over

Although in swapping it over I realised the NAS has 2 ethernet ports so I could have presumably just connected the other one up and that would have got an new IP address.

Now set with a static 192.168.68.xxx IP and reserved on the router.




I'm pretty sure I set a static IP on the PI as well, so will try the same with that.

[biggiles]

RizzoTheRat said:

Phew, that worked, panic over

Although in swapping it over I realised the NAS has 2 ethernet ports so I could have presumably just connected the other one up and that would have got an new IP address.

Now set with a static 192.168.68.xxx IP and reserved on the router.




I'm pretty sure I set a static IP on the PI as well, so will try the same with that.

Consider setting the NAS to use dynamic IPs, then reserve it on the router.

Then next time you change networking, it will be findable. Devices with static IPs can be a real pain if anything on the network changes!

[RizzoTheRat]

Will that ensure it always gets the same IP address? I assumed reserving it on the router just meant it wouldn't assign it to anything else, but wouldn't guarantee you gel the same address all the time?

[xeny]

Pretty much any recent domestic router I've dealt with let's you put a MAC address against an IP reservation.

For home my DHCP range starts at .100 and I just put statics in on all the hardware below that. I've been doing it that way for so long that I remember which switches are at .2 and up, APs at .10 and up, hypervisors at .20 and up, etc, but I've always kept the same subnet and detest the UI on routers for doing MAC/IP reservation.

[Captain_Morgan]

RizzoTheRat said:

Will that ensure it always gets the same IP address? I assumed reserving it on the router just meant it wouldn't assign it to anything else, but wouldn't guarantee you gel the same address all the time?

Nope it reserves that ip for use by the associated MAC address only.

If you need to do this again or for anyone finding this via a search in future the easiest process is.

Log onto old router via a wired computer, note the WiFi ssid / password, turn off WiFi, disconnect anything wired bar the computer your using, change the ip range from the current, connect the new modem/fw/router/access point box to the old modem/fw/router/access point box and power it up, move the wired computer over to the new box & log in, set the ip range to old range, set wifi ssid/password to the old one, reconnect any wired devices, set up things like fw rules, port forwarding, reserved ip’s

That way you don’t need to re-address any devices or go round changing wifi settings on a bunch of devices

[RizzoTheRat]

xeny said:

Pretty much any recent domestic router I've dealt with let's you put a MAC address against an IP reservation.

For home my DHCP range starts at .100 and I just put statics in on all the hardware below that. I've been doing it that way for so long that I remember which switches are at .2 and up, APs at .10 and up, hypervisors at .20 and up, etc, but I've always kept the same subnet and detest the UI on routers for doing MAC/IP reservation.

I've never really played with network settings before, I tend to find it's one of those rare areas in computing where things normally just work
I didn't realise you could put stuff on static IP's outside the specified IP range, in that case though why didn't my NAS on 192.168.178.xxx work when the IP range on the router was something like 192.168.1.0 to 192.168.1.200, or does it only work on the last number of the IP?

Captain_Morgan said:

Log onto old router via a wired computer, note the WiFi ssid / password, turn off WiFi, disconnect anything wired bar the computer your using, change the ip range from the current, connect the new modem/fw/router/access point box to the old modem/fw/router/access point box and power it up, move the wired computer over to the new box & log in, set the ip range to old range, set wifi ssid/password to the old one, reconnect any wired devices, set up things like fw rules, port forwarding, reserved ip’s

That way you don’t need to re-address any devices or go round changing wifi settings on a bunch of devices

The trouble these days is finding a wired computer. Neither my old Dell Latitude or my wife's new Asus Zenbook have ethernet ports, and my desktop is running on wifi as it's 2 floors up from the router and the nearest point I could run an ethernet cable to was the other side of the room. If we ever do any major refurb work on the house I'd definitely look at trying to run some extra ducts down to the services cupboard.

I think maybe I need to get a USB ethernet adaptor for emergency use.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 4th July 09:29

[Captain_Morgan]

RizzoTheRat said:

xeny said:

Pretty much any recent domestic router I've dealt with let's you put a MAC address against an IP reservation.

For home my DHCP range starts at .100 and I just put statics in on all the hardware below that. I've been doing it that way for so long that I remember which switches are at .2 and up, APs at .10 and up, hypervisors at .20 and up, etc, but I've always kept the same subnet and detest the UI on routers for doing MAC/IP reservation.

I've never really played with network settings before, I tend to find it's one of those rare areas in computing where things normally just work
I didn't realise you could put stuff on static IP's outside the specified IP range, in that case though why didn't my NAS on 192.168.178.xxx work when the IP range on the router was something like 192.168.1.0 to 192.168.1.200, or does it only work on the last number of the IP?

It didn’t work because they are different class C subnets, 192.168.1/24 is 192.168.1.0-255 it can’t talk to devices on the 192.168.178/24 range.

RizzoTheRat said:

Captain_Morgan said:

Log onto old router via a wired computer, note the WiFi ssid / password, turn off WiFi, disconnect anything wired bar the computer your using, change the ip range from the current, connect the new modem/fw/router/access point box to the old modem/fw/router/access point box and power it up, move the wired computer over to the new box & log in, set the ip range to old range, set wifi ssid/password to the old one, reconnect any wired devices, set up things like fw rules, port forwarding, reserved ip’s

That way you don’t need to re-address any devices or go round changing wifi settings on a bunch of devices

The trouble these days is finding a wired computer. Neither my old Dell Latitude or my wife's new Asus Zenbook have ethernet ports, and my desktop is running on wifi as it's 2 floors up from the router and the nearest point I could run an ethernet cable to was the other side of the room. If we ever do any major refurb work on the house I'd definitely look at trying to run some extra ducts down to the services cupboard.

I think maybe I need to get a USB ethernet adaptor for emergency use.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 4th July 09:29

It could also have been done by wireless access but would have taken a couple more wifi connect/disconnect cycles.
That said usb ethernet adapters are cheap as chips & useful to have around for testing/emergencies

[RizzoTheRat]

Captain_Morgan said:

It didn’t work because they are different class C subnets, 192.168.1/24 is 192.168.1.0-255 it can’t talk to devices on the 192.168.178/24 range.

Er...yeah...clearly I need to find a networking primer and read up on this stuff because I don't have a clue what that means

(Edited to fix quotes)

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 4th July 11:20

[Captain_Morgan]

RizzoTheRat][Captain_Morgan said:

It didn’t work because they are different class C subnets, 192.168.1/24 is 192.168.1.0-255 it can’t talk to devices on the 192.168.178/24 range.

Er...yeah...clearly I need to find a networking primer and read up on this stuff because I don't have a clue what that means

Think of it like an address 192.168.1 is the street, the last digits .0-255 are door numbers.
Anyone on the same street can talk to anyone else on the same street if they know the door number.

192.168.178. Is a different street and by default inter street communication doesn’t work.

Note: there exceptions & caveats to this but it’s good enough for simple home networking.

[xeny]

RizzoTheRat said:

Er...yeah...clearly I need to find a networking primer and read up on this stuff because I don't have a clue what that means

IP addresses are typically written as 4 octets - say a subnet mask of typically 255.255.255.0 with an address of 192.168.1.32 .

Writing those out in binary you get

11111111.11111111.11111111.00000000

11000000.10101000.00000001.10000000

Any where there is a 0 in the address subnet mask position corresponding to the position in the IP address then the address is on the same subnet, anywhere there is a 1 it is on a different subnet and the traffic has to go via the systems gateway for that subnet (generally the default gateway, but not always). I suspect that the default gateway you set on the NAS pointed out to the original broadband router, so it had no way of replying to you.