PH business brains - help needed!

PH business brains - help needed!

Author
Discussion

Twit

Original Poster:

2,908 posts

271 months

Wednesday 28th April 2004
quotequote all
Thought I would ask this as I'm sure many of you have been in the same position!

I want to set up my own retail business, I know the subject - kite flying and kite surfing, I've established that there is a market, kite surfing, traction/power kiting and sport kiting is one of the fastest growing sports in thr world and I think I have found a suitable location. Problem is I don't really know what to do next. I need advise regarding start-up, raising cash, business planning etc. I'm going to go and see the bank to ask some questions and I'm sure I can draw on my current job experience (NHS management) for planning and day to day running. But any advice or tails would be welcome.

I really want to make this work as I am completely fed up with working for others and getting no benefit as well as the general farce that is the NHS....

Help!!

Cheers!

toppstuff

13,698 posts

254 months

Wednesday 28th April 2004
quotequote all
Only one thing really matters.

To use banker speak : "What is your revenue model?"

In other words:

1) How much will you charge for your services ?

2) How much will you spend on equipment, premises, the stuff you need to exist?

3) How much will you need to live on?

4) How many people will use your services, and how many people do you need to find in order to make a profit?

5) When will you start making a profit, and how much?

6) How much will you have to spend to attrct customers?

7) How much borrowing will you need?

8) After paying costs - how much is left?

You can then go into a part of your business plan called " critical success factors" where you describe what the big issues are which will make or break you.

Then cover a section on " specific risks and their solutions". In other words, imagine what could go wrong, and imagine a plan to get you out of that position...

If you've got answers to these issues and some security, then a Bank will take a look at you and maybe part with some cash !

OR

You simply grab some cash and go and do it !!

Successful businesses have suceeded this way ! But equally, it could go pear shaped if stuff happens you had'nt planned for.

A cool sport to make money from though...

Good luck

Twit

Original Poster:

2,908 posts

271 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
Cheers, thought that may be the case....

It is a cool sport not to mention fun and flipping knackering! A couple of weeks ago it was the British Kite Surfing champs in Wales and people were consistently asking, questionning and really up for getting involved. It is always the same land boarding locally to here. I've been talking this idea for at least two years now... Now is the time to go for it!!!

condor

8,837 posts

255 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
We had a kite festival here in Bedford last year....there were quite a lot of stands...and the displays were good.

I think you'd be better off asking a kite flying forum on the viability of the project
From an everyday point of view....the market is there....only if people are interested in the subject.
Although I enjoyed the kite festival....I only went for a couple of hours, because I was there...it was on...and I had 2 hours to spare. It's not something I would have gone out of my way to have seen

Size Nine Elm

5,167 posts

291 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
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You also need to do your cash projections on a very pessimistic basis.

You might see a lot of peole interested, but if only 1 in 10 are niterested enough to buy something, do you have a business?

planetdave

9,921 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
I was constantly asked for business plans and projections and all kinds of bollox.

When I had bottle enough to start I found that it was all B.S.

How can you project growth on a new start? It's not as if there is an established trend otherwise smartypants in the trade would already have it covered.

BTW being self employed is brilliant. Well worth the risk. Just consider that any property/relationships you have are part of that risk.

Xm5eR

5,094 posts

255 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
Why not try this as a web based business first. Go to the events and promote yourself/site but significantly reduce your risk and start it part time.

Just a thought as what you propose is such a niche business you may run out of cash to pay the rent before "the scene" know you exist.

Eric Mc

122,856 posts

272 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
The only kite shop I'm aware of was in Guildford and it closed in less than a year.

Check out other kite retailers. Find out how they operate - how much of their sales are shop based and how much are their sales based on mail order/ web-sales.

Size Nine Elm

5,167 posts

291 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
planetdave said:
I was constantly asked for business plans and projections and all kinds of bollox.

When I had bottle enough to start I found that it was all B.S.

Yes and no... what banks etc want is a lot of bollocks, but you do want to have a reasonable dea if you can make a living before you commit yourself. Selling one TellyTubbies kite a week isn't going to pay the bills...

Twit

Original Poster:

2,908 posts

271 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
All very valid comments. I'm planning to market via the web although the suppliers are keen not to over expose their products - there are a lot of web based kite shops! I've got plans to offer lessons and trial sessions as well. Kites when you get into them are actually pretty expensive, I carry around at least a grands worth in the back of land rover each day. Also the conception of kites as toys does not really ring true as the price is prohibative and if you crash one into someone or even worse you hit soemone in a buggy or on a board then the consequences can be awful!

really keen still!

chrisgr31

13,742 posts

262 months

Thursday 29th April 2004
quotequote all
If you are taking a lease you will need to consider Rent and Business Rates. Don't foret that when taking a unit the rent is often subject to negotation and do try to find out what oother people are paying. There is a Kite Shop in Bluewater Shopping Centre. Assuming this link works it may give some useful information http://info.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/decision_document.asp?s_appeal_number=22154168488/148N00

It was a decision on a rating appeal regarding the kite shop in Bluewater, but gives background information on the economics of a kite shop.

Ask if you need further advice on rent and rates

simpo two

87,084 posts

272 months

Friday 30th April 2004
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Keeping overheads down has to be key, I think. I like thge idea of doing it web-based, then you don't need premises, PL insurance, business rates and all the other expensive paraphenalia that can kill you before you start.

So your first problem will be marketing the website. Then you'll have to find suppliers and opening trading accounts with them (or have some capital so you can order quickly) and see how it goes. Eventually you'll get an idea of what's most popular and how much to keep. If you need storage for product, perhaps you can use a garage to start with, but IMHO don't start gearing up too much; it might go phut. But we hope it doesn't

Every £1 you earn yourself is worth £2 from sitting behind a desk taking crap from middle managers.

furby

378 posts

253 months

Saturday 1st May 2004
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simpo two said:
Every £1 you earn yourself is worth £2 from sitting behind a desk taking crap from middle managers.


I'll go with that wisdom!

bilko

1,693 posts

239 months

Saturday 1st May 2004
quotequote all
I bought a Flexifoil staker on the understanding that it would lift me 3 foot into the air......Yeah right!, if i had 4 staked then maybe. Unfortunately i shelled out £70 for this some time ago and after the realisation that £200-£300 for a blade would have been much better i sort of lost interest.
You are right, it is a fast growing sport but when i was interested i found most of the info and retailers were web based.
lessons and instruction are a good idea as they offer something that gives you the edge cos of lack of. However i would have thought that most people would start small and then work up due to the cost etc.
Also i think it's a bit of a specialist market; maybe because it's relatively new. So probably best not to go too technicle and offer lots of basic stuff at competitive prices as your guaranteed income, sort of shelf fillers.
I would have thought that the water based stuff was even more specialized although basicly the same equipment ( i think ) so how about trying to bring some surfing sites on board ( sorry ) to help with the outlay etc?.
best of luck
Ian

topwelshman

2,093 posts

250 months

Sunday 2nd May 2004
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The only advice I can give is to just bloody do it mate. Expect to be skint for a few years and eat,sleep and s**t the business. After that, if you've ploughed enough sweat into it and kept to the basic rules of business (keep cost low and margins as high as possible) then you should start to see the benefits.

www.xlmotorsport.com

simpo two

87,084 posts

272 months

Monday 3rd May 2004
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[quote=topwelshman]The only advice I can give is to just bloody do it mate. Expect to be skint for a few years and eat,sleep and s**t the business. After that, if you've ploughed enough sweat into it and kept to the basic rules of business (keep cost low and margins as high as possible) then you should start to see the benefits.
For you it worked, but if the business concept is not sound, if the products are wrong, too expensive, wrong target etc, it will fail. Much as I hate to say it, you've got to get the marketing right (unless of course you're selling umrellas on a rainy day!)

Podie

46,645 posts

282 months

Monday 3rd May 2004
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The only places I've seen where "Whaam! Kites" ... not sure if they're still going though...

Twit

Original Poster:

2,908 posts

271 months

Tuesday 4th May 2004
quotequote all
Cheers again guys! Just got back form four days in wales kit flying etc and I'm even more determined now! Definetly going to go web based to begin with along with a magazine type site - pistonheads for kites! Then go from there, I've registered the sites just got to work them up...

One of the posts on here has highlighted a real issue with kites - you have to buy the right kit for what you want to do and be well advised. I guess if you wanted to jump, scud, board etc the shop should have directed away from a single stacker, hopefully that is what I can do!

I'm prepared to have no cash for ages, everyone around me seems to be too, so hopefully it will be all systems go asap! If anyone is interested in kites mail me and I'll mail the url when I'm up and running!!!

Cheers!!

PS - North Wales this weekend the weather has been awesome - nursing sunburn now!!!!

bilko

1,693 posts

239 months

Tuesday 4th May 2004
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Whatever you buy whether it's cars, hifi, pc's, kites.......it's allways good to know you are buying from an enthusiast and not just a retailer. If you can pass some of that enthusiasm to the customer through whatever medium you use to sell your product i think you will be well on the way to making a sale.
Also because kite flying is a relatively cheap hobby and progressive as well........you should end up with a happy well informed customer who will see you as more of a partner in their progression to good safe kite flying.

Martin Hunt

301 posts

275 months

Friday 7th May 2004
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I am an old skool kite flyer, stunt kites, and I went on a weeks trip to Portugal about 8 years ago for some training, the bloke worked in a kite shop (Sheffield I think) but 3 months of the year ran a kite skool in Portugal, he had about 8 people per week, and the money he made from that paid for his accommodation etc. I think he said that by the end of the 3 months he hoped to have saved about £2k. He loved it and looked so relaxed it was untrue.

My suggestion is go for it.