How to stich a company up
Discussion
Please bear with me on this....
I previously worked for a building services company as an estimator & at the time gave an order to a close friend to carry out mechanical & electrical works works on a project to the value of approx. £150k.
Having since left to set up a QS company it has, over the previous months become apparent that the said company has no intention to pay my friend for works undertaken.
The problem is as follows. To file a 'winding up' order is a drawn out progress by which time my friend will have gone bust, meaning the company can get away with paying the bill. The other option was to employ a 'factoring' company, but due to the fact that my mate has not actually 'invoiced' the company in question, as in the building industry you do not officially invoice works, you put in 'applications', the factoring company has turned him down (more than one factoring company i hasted to add), he is at a somewhat dead end.
This is where it get interesting.
The company i was previously worked for has asked me to price some works for them by monday, and attend a meeting the same day (i.e, giving them no chance to check what i have done). They do not know of my close relationship with the person they are about to close down, and therefore i am looking for a way to give them a low price to teach them a lesson (my friend is probably going to loose approx. 75k of his own money when company folds).
I am looking for a way to price the works (albiet very low), and have no comeback to myself (or my P.I).
Does anyone know a way of doing this ?
Please help (URGENTLY).
The works i will be pricing is to the value of approx. 1.5 million and therefore could quite easily submit a price of 1 million (no questions asked).
I obviously do not ever envisage working for this company again in the future, but would like to teach them a lesson not so quickly forgot as i am pissed off with large companies taking the piss out of subi's.
once again, please HELP.
I previously worked for a building services company as an estimator & at the time gave an order to a close friend to carry out mechanical & electrical works works on a project to the value of approx. £150k.
Having since left to set up a QS company it has, over the previous months become apparent that the said company has no intention to pay my friend for works undertaken.
The problem is as follows. To file a 'winding up' order is a drawn out progress by which time my friend will have gone bust, meaning the company can get away with paying the bill. The other option was to employ a 'factoring' company, but due to the fact that my mate has not actually 'invoiced' the company in question, as in the building industry you do not officially invoice works, you put in 'applications', the factoring company has turned him down (more than one factoring company i hasted to add), he is at a somewhat dead end.
This is where it get interesting.
The company i was previously worked for has asked me to price some works for them by monday, and attend a meeting the same day (i.e, giving them no chance to check what i have done). They do not know of my close relationship with the person they are about to close down, and therefore i am looking for a way to give them a low price to teach them a lesson (my friend is probably going to loose approx. 75k of his own money when company folds).
I am looking for a way to price the works (albiet very low), and have no comeback to myself (or my P.I).
Does anyone know a way of doing this ?
Please help (URGENTLY).
The works i will be pricing is to the value of approx. 1.5 million and therefore could quite easily submit a price of 1 million (no questions asked).
I obviously do not ever envisage working for this company again in the future, but would like to teach them a lesson not so quickly forgot as i am pissed off with large companies taking the piss out of subi's.
once again, please HELP.
Problem with the factoring is that even if a factoring company take on the invoice, which is unlikely as it is already a past event. As soon as the invoice goes past terms they will take the money straight back from your friend leaving him in the same predicament as he is in now!! He will also have lost the fee that the factoring company take and so may end up worse off!! (This is based on the theory that the company in question have no intention of paying)
It does seem that they have no intention of paying, as they know that my friend is struggling & will shortly go bump (then they get away without paying at all).
Regarding factoring, the problem is that there is no invoice, as in the building game these are applications for payment (by all accounts not same a an invoice).
Regarding factoring, the problem is that there is no invoice, as in the building game these are applications for payment (by all accounts not same a an invoice).
I would be REALLY wary about screwing the company directly - those people could come back at you.
Winding up orders can be very effective (I know someone who recently filed such an order on Tesco's. Payment arrived in 24 hours). I would suggest getting advice for an urgent filing (clearly your mate is on the brink), and where it places him in the creditors list.
Of course, you could also 'buy' your mate's debt (no money needs to change hands - rather you imply to the Client that you now work together). As you (and he) stand there with your document (or the first slide of your presentation), you pull out the invoice and suggest that this needs to be cleared before you show page 2. This assumes your work is that important to them.
Another technique is to go in and remove all the goods supplied. If it's a brick wall, start knocking it down - generally gets the attention pretty quickly.
Winding up orders can be very effective (I know someone who recently filed such an order on Tesco's. Payment arrived in 24 hours). I would suggest getting advice for an urgent filing (clearly your mate is on the brink), and where it places him in the creditors list.
Of course, you could also 'buy' your mate's debt (no money needs to change hands - rather you imply to the Client that you now work together). As you (and he) stand there with your document (or the first slide of your presentation), you pull out the invoice and suggest that this needs to be cleared before you show page 2. This assumes your work is that important to them.
Another technique is to go in and remove all the goods supplied. If it's a brick wall, start knocking it down - generally gets the attention pretty quickly.
simpo two said:
I may have missed some fine detail here, but how about adding the money he's owed to *your* estimate, then passing it to him when you get paid?
They probably wouldn't take his proposal/tender if there was that much profit in it. If they did then he'd have to pay tax on the £150k as it'd be profit, so would need to charge more like £200k extra to cover it.
Dick Dastardly said:
I may have missed some fine detail here, but how about adding the money he's owed to *your* estimate, then passing it to him when you get paid?
They probably wouldn't take his proposal/tender if there was that much profit in it. If they did then he'd have to pay tax on the £150k as it'd be profit, so would need to charge more like £200k extra to cover it.
True. But if they can't tell the difference between £1M and £1.5M...?
'Another technique is to go in and remove all the goods supplied. If it's a brick wall, start knocking it down - generally gets the attention pretty quickly'
Having had a customer go into adminstive receivership I went it to pick up the Invoices and Delivery notess i had produced for them - to cause max bother. To do this you have to prove retention of ownership which is very difficult. Fortunately we werent talking mega bucks so no major harm was done. Still moneys moneys and its situations like the above that make you wonder 'why bother' sometimes.
Good luck in your stichin up - hope it goes to plan.
>> Edited by Broccers on Friday 23 January 17:35
Having had a customer go into adminstive receivership I went it to pick up the Invoices and Delivery notess i had produced for them - to cause max bother. To do this you have to prove retention of ownership which is very difficult. Fortunately we werent talking mega bucks so no major harm was done. Still moneys moneys and its situations like the above that make you wonder 'why bother' sometimes.
Good luck in your stichin up - hope it goes to plan.
>> Edited by Broccers on Friday 23 January 17:35
john75 said:
I am not 100% sure on this one but you could charge interest on the outstanding debt after the period of the agreed terms of trade has ended.
John
That's what the Whitehall mandarins cosily believe. A fanciful plan to help small businesses. But if a company isn't paying their bills and you can't get them legally, you can imagine what they'll do with demands for interest...
Hit them on all fronts. Get the winding up order process going straight away! Like now! Also, think about how works carried out can be recovered.
I like the idea of you and your mate becoming 'partners' and you requesting the cash from your previous employer in front of the new spangly customer who has £1.5m worth of order to place.
No one deserves to get stung, life out there is bloody tuff enough as it is without to$$ers like this pratting about. Who is it by the way. A few in here are involved in the building game through one form or another. It can be useful to know.
Paul.
I like the idea of you and your mate becoming 'partners' and you requesting the cash from your previous employer in front of the new spangly customer who has £1.5m worth of order to place.
No one deserves to get stung, life out there is bloody tuff enough as it is without to$$ers like this pratting about. Who is it by the way. A few in here are involved in the building game through one form or another. It can be useful to know.
Paul.
I thought winding up orders take quite some time ?
Time is something he doesn't have any more.
I too quite like the idea of buying the debt. How does this work ? Can I but it before the company goes bust & pay a minimal figure for it ? Then at least I/we could still chase it through my company.
Can't say name of company involved on here for obvious reasons.
Time is something he doesn't have any more.
I too quite like the idea of buying the debt. How does this work ? Can I but it before the company goes bust & pay a minimal figure for it ? Then at least I/we could still chase it through my company.
Can't say name of company involved on here for obvious reasons.
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