Renting a 'shop' - what liabilities?
Discussion
My daughter has a great ability in art and design, she has already done a current GT drivers crash helmet design and also some album cover art work and T-shirts for some local bands.
Unfortunately the space at home is somewhat limited and I'd love to get her some space to work in. There are a few empty shops to let with some good floor space and display opportunities and I'm seriously considering letting one primarily for her work in but, if someone was to see a piece they could come in and buy too.
Another little bonus would be I could use the room out the back to work in as my home office is lacking in space.
As she would not be a 'business' (more just using the space to fulfill a hobby)and I would not be conducting business from the office as such, what would I be liable to pay in respect of council tax/rates, public liability etc? Any ideas?
Unfortunately the space at home is somewhat limited and I'd love to get her some space to work in. There are a few empty shops to let with some good floor space and display opportunities and I'm seriously considering letting one primarily for her work in but, if someone was to see a piece they could come in and buy too.
Another little bonus would be I could use the room out the back to work in as my home office is lacking in space.
As she would not be a 'business' (more just using the space to fulfill a hobby)and I would not be conducting business from the office as such, what would I be liable to pay in respect of council tax/rates, public liability etc? Any ideas?
.Mark said:
As she would not be a 'business' (more just using the space to fulfill a hobby)and I would not be conducting business from the office as such, what would I be liable to pay in respect of council tax/rates, public liability etc? Any ideas?
It's the classification of what you buy that counts, so 'shop' = business rates, public liability, it all gets very expensive. If the only benefit is to attract the odd passer-by, the cons vastly outweigh it, IMHO, especially as the internet is a free way to trade with the whole world.
If you're really stuck for space, what about an extension?
Yep an extension is certainly an option and one we are considering.
I saw the shop idea as a quick fix.
what if the work was not for sale? A notice in the window could advise of a phone number or website to visit?
If items were sold, clearly it would then become a business - but a loss making one - does that alter anything?
I saw the shop idea as a quick fix.
what if the work was not for sale? A notice in the window could advise of a phone number or website to visit? If items were sold, clearly it would then become a business - but a loss making one - does that alter anything?Be careful'
Running a business from home can land you in all sorts of problesms:
i) it may be prohibited under the terms of the deeds of property.
ii) you could end up running foul of your local authority - running a business usually means having to obtain planning permission.
iii) if planning permission was granted, you might end up having to pay business rates.
Generally, if your home "business" does not involve any alterations to the residential nature of the premises, then none of the above apply. Therefore, working from home using a computer or performing general "office" type work would not normally trigger a planning problem. However, carrying out any sort of "industrial process" (such as spray painting, drilling, cutting etc) could very well cause problems on this front. Also, having "traffic" in the form of a couple of deliveries a day or members of the public coming and going would also raise planning issues.
Running a business from home can land you in all sorts of problesms:
i) it may be prohibited under the terms of the deeds of property.
ii) you could end up running foul of your local authority - running a business usually means having to obtain planning permission.
iii) if planning permission was granted, you might end up having to pay business rates.
Generally, if your home "business" does not involve any alterations to the residential nature of the premises, then none of the above apply. Therefore, working from home using a computer or performing general "office" type work would not normally trigger a planning problem. However, carrying out any sort of "industrial process" (such as spray painting, drilling, cutting etc) could very well cause problems on this front. Also, having "traffic" in the form of a couple of deliveries a day or members of the public coming and going would also raise planning issues.
For a shop, the shortest lease you would be likely to get would be 3 years, more likely 5. One of the worst things about shops is the business rates. As long as the shop is occupied then full rates will be payable. Councils have a large population of single mothers etc to support, and businesses are an easy target.
I don't think that a graphic designer - presumably working quietly at computer or drawing board - is going to worry anyone if they work from home. I've worked from home for 12 years.
If a shop is business-rated I'm sure you will pay business rates whatever you do, whwther you keep the door locked or not. You'd a need a change of planning permission to residential. It ain't worth the beans, really. The extra costs would simply wipe out any modest profit. Stay at home and you/she might make some money. IMHO!
If a shop is business-rated I'm sure you will pay business rates whatever you do, whwther you keep the door locked or not. You'd a need a change of planning permission to residential. It ain't worth the beans, really. The extra costs would simply wipe out any modest profit. Stay at home and you/she might make some money. IMHO!
Having warned you off working from home - it probably is still the best option. The main thing would be to conduct the business in as unobtrusive a manner as possible - after all, it will only be a glorified hobby. As long as neighbours aren't upset in any way and a low profile is kept, I don't think you would have too many problems.
Renting a shop, or indeed any sort of business premises such as an industrial unit, is quite a big step to make with large initial outlays (rent deoposits, rent in advance etc) and many longer term rental and other financial commitments. Until a business is well established, or you are aware that there is definite work out there and a definite adequate income stream, I would not go down this path.
Renting a shop, or indeed any sort of business premises such as an industrial unit, is quite a big step to make with large initial outlays (rent deoposits, rent in advance etc) and many longer term rental and other financial commitments. Until a business is well established, or you are aware that there is definite work out there and a definite adequate income stream, I would not go down this path.
Another possibility is to "share" space with an already running business, this would mean no long term commitments and vastly reduced overheads that benefit both parties.
I have offered temporary office/workspace to a couple of friends in the past as they were finding out whether to go the full hog or not.
Nick
I have offered temporary office/workspace to a couple of friends in the past as they were finding out whether to go the full hog or not.
Nick
Letting a commercial unit should be OK but watch very carefully the repairing covenants in the lease. These could be written in such a manner as to make you responsible for handing the unit back in "as new" condition - even if it was a run down shack when you took it on. It would pay to have a Schedule of Condition done at the outset (a surveyor would be able to help) just to record it's condition when you take it on. Also do not take a long lease if you can avoid it, if you sub let you can be liable for all future tenants defaults!!
EM off forum for more info if required.
Steve (Chartered Surveyor :-{ & Lemansman)
EM off forum for more info if required.
Steve (Chartered Surveyor :-{ & Lemansman)
lemansman said:
Letting a commercial unit should be OK but watch very carefully the repairing covenants in the lease. These could be written in such a manner as to make you responsible for handing the unit back in "as new" condition - even if it was a run down shack when you took it on. It would pay to have a Schedule of Condition done at the outset (a surveyor would be able to help) just to record it's condition when you take it on. Also do not take a long lease if you can avoid it, if you sub let you can be liable for all future tenants defaults!!
EM off forum for more info if required.
Steve (Chartered Surveyor :-{ & Lemansman)
Yeah, good advice.
Landlords in the main, try to get you to sign up to a "full repairing and insuring lease"...
What a load of bollox, that means if the roof collapses after you have been a tenant for three months, you have to pay for the repair
, even though it's THEIR f
g property, as well as insuring it for THEM. Tread very carefully before signing ANY lease.....
Thanks guys, the last 2 posts secure in my mind even further the prospect of not moving this one forward.
The whole idea from the outset was only to give my daughter a large space to work in and display her work (for our own enjoyment more than anything), a bouns of that would have been a larger office space than I can provide myself at home (although I say office space I mean as a homeworker more room for me to do my job in and also for the wife (who is a deputy head to do all her paperwork)).
Once again in this great country of ours there is too much red tape and hassle involved in anything that doesn't involve paying taxes
The whole idea from the outset was only to give my daughter a large space to work in and display her work (for our own enjoyment more than anything), a bouns of that would have been a larger office space than I can provide myself at home (although I say office space I mean as a homeworker more room for me to do my job in and also for the wife (who is a deputy head to do all her paperwork)).
Once again in this great country of ours there is too much red tape and hassle involved in anything that doesn't involve paying taxes
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