Running a pub / bar
Discussion
One of those friday night conversations with mates down the pub - "you know, this place would be so much better if ..."
Didn't realise that the likes of Punch buy the freehold then lease back to you for a fee - £20k or so - on the condition you buy drinks from them and let them put machines in etc. So now a friday night conversation has turned into a half-assed idea
We've thought of an ideal candidate pub and have no shortage of what we think are good ideas of how it could be run. Any general comments from anyone? I'm concerned trying to manage a pub might be a bit tricky for someone who hasn't worked in that industry before?
I know avoiding the demon
is one thing to be careful of!
Didn't realise that the likes of Punch buy the freehold then lease back to you for a fee - £20k or so - on the condition you buy drinks from them and let them put machines in etc. So now a friday night conversation has turned into a half-assed idea
We've thought of an ideal candidate pub and have no shortage of what we think are good ideas of how it could be run. Any general comments from anyone? I'm concerned trying to manage a pub might be a bit tricky for someone who hasn't worked in that industry before?
I know avoiding the demon
is one thing to be careful of!Very common for brewers and the like to buy premises then lease back to tenants. Pricing quoted seems low. Most decent pubs will cost 1/4 to 1/2 million, often rent at 10% of cost.
Local licensing bods will expect you to demonstrate experience to get the licence, failing which attend a training course. Some big chains run these in-house for exisitng staff looking for promotion, don't know about potential tensants though. Local college might offer a 1 or 2 day basic for about 100 a day. If you don't fit the criteria, you need to set up a limited company and then employ an experienced manager. An individual cannot put someone else on the licence.
Problem with taking over somewhere to change it immediately is you alienate existing customers who go there because they like things the way the are, but don't yet have your own customer base who have tried and like the ideas you like.
Specialist guidance is always a sood idea to get used to the licensing process. Not just alcohol, but any type. Recently came across one cowboy who thought he could ignore Performing Rights Society licence. Enforcement officer went in one day, heard theme for the news, which is copyrighted and done him for compen of 2000. (nearly made the news itself)
Also worth checking the history of the place if you don't fully know it. In last 5-10 years how often has it changed hands ? Why ? Is there a police or drugs problem ? Who works the doors ?
Hope this gives you a few pointers. If still keen, watch the press for the big chains doing recruitment drives in your area. Punch, Pubmaster, Mitchells, Wetherspoon often do open days to go along and speak to them. Do that.
Local licensing bods will expect you to demonstrate experience to get the licence, failing which attend a training course. Some big chains run these in-house for exisitng staff looking for promotion, don't know about potential tensants though. Local college might offer a 1 or 2 day basic for about 100 a day. If you don't fit the criteria, you need to set up a limited company and then employ an experienced manager. An individual cannot put someone else on the licence.
Problem with taking over somewhere to change it immediately is you alienate existing customers who go there because they like things the way the are, but don't yet have your own customer base who have tried and like the ideas you like.
Specialist guidance is always a sood idea to get used to the licensing process. Not just alcohol, but any type. Recently came across one cowboy who thought he could ignore Performing Rights Society licence. Enforcement officer went in one day, heard theme for the news, which is copyrighted and done him for compen of 2000. (nearly made the news itself)
Also worth checking the history of the place if you don't fully know it. In last 5-10 years how often has it changed hands ? Why ? Is there a police or drugs problem ? Who works the doors ?
Hope this gives you a few pointers. If still keen, watch the press for the big chains doing recruitment drives in your area. Punch, Pubmaster, Mitchells, Wetherspoon often do open days to go along and speak to them. Do that.
Thanks Bob.
The organisation involved does do starter courses, which are advertised as suitable for those experienced in running a business but with no experience working the pub trade ..
Licencing might be a problem. Given we're all in our 20's does this mean we are less likely to get a licence - assuming we go on a training course etc - or (if we need to go down this route) do I understand you correctly when you say we can own and licence the pub as a ltd co and employ someone who does have necessary experience to be "landlord"?
Edit to say: The place we are looking has a lot of good features (1am licence, big garden+play area, large car park) but is in dire need of refurbishment - it's becoming less and less busy as a result - but it has lots of potential .. next the inevitable business plan
>> Edited by john_p on Tuesday 26th August 11:34
The organisation involved does do starter courses, which are advertised as suitable for those experienced in running a business but with no experience working the pub trade ..
Licencing might be a problem. Given we're all in our 20's does this mean we are less likely to get a licence - assuming we go on a training course etc - or (if we need to go down this route) do I understand you correctly when you say we can own and licence the pub as a ltd co and employ someone who does have necessary experience to be "landlord"?
Edit to say: The place we are looking has a lot of good features (1am licence, big garden+play area, large car park) but is in dire need of refurbishment - it's becoming less and less busy as a result - but it has lots of potential .. next the inevitable business plan
>> Edited by john_p on Tuesday 26th August 11:34
I can recommend you contact the Union Pub Company- they run all the required courses you'll need from Licensing, Standards & Good Working Practises, Cellar Management, Accounting, Promotions etc etc etc- visit www.tupc.co.uk or give them a call on 01283 531131.......
We have been on many of their courses over the years, typical costs are:
Licensing (to national accredited & recognised level) per person = £400+VAT.
Cellar Management= £40.
Oh, and no we don't work for them, just can recommend their services, we have learned a great deal from these courses.....but the real way to do it is hands on, of course.
We have been on many of their courses over the years, typical costs are:
Licensing (to national accredited & recognised level) per person = £400+VAT.
Cellar Management= £40.
Oh, and no we don't work for them, just can recommend their services, we have learned a great deal from these courses.....but the real way to do it is hands on, of course.
No experience in this field but some observations from a market savvy punter of bars/pubs!:
Kids! - We all love em but not in pubs! - at least not after a certain point.
Ale - The real stuff. I don't expect it in a trendy bar but a pub should have a few decent ales on (Ithink it has the largest margin as well!)
Food - Let me quote a waitress at a very nice pub near Alton Towers: Me: "Can I have the mixed grill please but can I swap the kidney for an extra sausage". Waitress: "Oh, I'm sorry sir but that's how it comes in the pack"...'nuff said.
Good luck
Kids! - We all love em but not in pubs! - at least not after a certain point.
Ale - The real stuff. I don't expect it in a trendy bar but a pub should have a few decent ales on (Ithink it has the largest margin as well!)
Food - Let me quote a waitress at a very nice pub near Alton Towers: Me: "Can I have the mixed grill please but can I swap the kidney for an extra sausage". Waitress: "Oh, I'm sorry sir but that's how it comes in the pack"...'nuff said.
Good luck
john_p said:
Licencing might be a problem. Given we're all in our 20's does this mean we are less likely to get a licence - assuming we go on a training course etc - or (if we need to go down this route) do I understand you correctly when you say we can own and licence the pub as a ltd co and employ someone who does have necessary experience to be "landlord"?
>> Edited by john_p on Tuesday 26th August 11:34
Yes. Age isn't the factor, experience and common sense are. Have known 18 yo with licence.
Not entirely familiar with licensing south of the Border but will be much the same as ours. Companies can get the licence, e.g. Tesco, but some named individual takes responsibility e.g. getting prosecuted if anything goes wrong, like selling to underage. Often used in the criminal fraternity as a police check will be carried out on any individual who applies. Do it by company with squeaky clean shareholders, then buy their shares once you get a licence
Given imminent changes to licensing, might be worth speaking to a professional, e.g. 1 am licence is good, but considering introducing 24 hour licences, which will devalue this considerably, etc.
dont do it! its work from 7am till 1am. staff constantly let you down, customers threaten you, the brewery stitch you up, and the staff steal.
PS if you like a drink, you will not handle the will power, and succomb and drink the profit.
also customers always know how to run the pub better than you (which is how you got started on the idea in the first place isnt it???)
holidays are a pain, as temp managers ; steal, and cost a fortune
PPS you die young of smoing related illnesses.
17 year ex landord)
PS if you like a drink, you will not handle the will power, and succomb and drink the profit.
also customers always know how to run the pub better than you (which is how you got started on the idea in the first place isnt it???)
holidays are a pain, as temp managers ; steal, and cost a fortune
PPS you die young of smoing related illnesses.
17 year ex landord)
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