Buy to Let - Dropping my managing agent....scary?
Discussion
Afternoon All, (sorry in advance for the long post).
I am looking for some advice regarding my two BTL properties - In particular, their management moving forwards.
For reasons I won't bore you with here, both properties are located in Swansea, around 3hrs from my home in Berkshire. One I have owned since 2017 and the other since 2022. Due to the distance from me, I have had both properties 'Fully Managed' via the same local agent (with local branches) since my purchase.
I have opted for a Managing Agent to act as a safety net 'just in case' something went drastically wrong, at a silly hour and I couldn't get there or get hold of one of my contacts. Furthermore, just in case the **** hit the fan, I had some basic legal coverage and support. Both properties, are after all, in a different country and its nice having the rent paid to me and never having to worry about chasing etc. They have also sorted the inventory, inspections and background checks etc.
However, the agent has really been grating on me in both properties recently - I won't bore you with the specific details, but I've had enough of poor service and mistakes. The final straw (of many straws) came recently where they lost my Gas Safety Certificate for one property (which was hand delivered to the local branch by my gas engineer), who then told me they'd never received it and promptly charged me for sending an engineer to the property (Without my permission) to recheck the installation and then billed me for it
(I believe this is illegal, as I have legal responsibility for said appliance!)
Anyway, over this period of owning these properties, in the background I have picked up good rapport with 2 local handymen, a sparky and a plumber. Between those guys, they have kept me on the straight and narrow in terms of keeping the houses in working order and responding to issues as they've arisen. To this extent, whilst the tenant may report to issue via the agent directly (lets say the boiler not firing for hot water), ultimately I get in direct contact with the tenant to apologise and sort the issue myself via my contacts down there. (who themselves are happy to liaise directly with the tenant).
Both current tenants (single women in their 50's) are both in good jobs, seem to want to be long term tenants (one has been there for 5 years this year and the other for 3 years), seem steady and well behaved - inspections come back perfect and, touch wood, i've had zero issues and not even a single late payment. I also have direct contact with both via text.
Therefore, all things considered plus the latest issues with the managing agent, I am looking at the £80-90 (c.10%) a month I pay for each property in management fees against the very little/poor service I get from them. Therefore, I am considering 'going it alone' and managing the properties myself moving forwards, which for all intents and purposes, I already do.
However, this would be a big brave step for me and before doing so I want to bounce the idea off the forum.....here goes with a few queries/concerns I have:
1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Any other thoughts would be welcome too - I want to cover all bases. Thanks in advance.
I am looking for some advice regarding my two BTL properties - In particular, their management moving forwards.
For reasons I won't bore you with here, both properties are located in Swansea, around 3hrs from my home in Berkshire. One I have owned since 2017 and the other since 2022. Due to the distance from me, I have had both properties 'Fully Managed' via the same local agent (with local branches) since my purchase.
I have opted for a Managing Agent to act as a safety net 'just in case' something went drastically wrong, at a silly hour and I couldn't get there or get hold of one of my contacts. Furthermore, just in case the **** hit the fan, I had some basic legal coverage and support. Both properties, are after all, in a different country and its nice having the rent paid to me and never having to worry about chasing etc. They have also sorted the inventory, inspections and background checks etc.
However, the agent has really been grating on me in both properties recently - I won't bore you with the specific details, but I've had enough of poor service and mistakes. The final straw (of many straws) came recently where they lost my Gas Safety Certificate for one property (which was hand delivered to the local branch by my gas engineer), who then told me they'd never received it and promptly charged me for sending an engineer to the property (Without my permission) to recheck the installation and then billed me for it
(I believe this is illegal, as I have legal responsibility for said appliance!)Anyway, over this period of owning these properties, in the background I have picked up good rapport with 2 local handymen, a sparky and a plumber. Between those guys, they have kept me on the straight and narrow in terms of keeping the houses in working order and responding to issues as they've arisen. To this extent, whilst the tenant may report to issue via the agent directly (lets say the boiler not firing for hot water), ultimately I get in direct contact with the tenant to apologise and sort the issue myself via my contacts down there. (who themselves are happy to liaise directly with the tenant).
Both current tenants (single women in their 50's) are both in good jobs, seem to want to be long term tenants (one has been there for 5 years this year and the other for 3 years), seem steady and well behaved - inspections come back perfect and, touch wood, i've had zero issues and not even a single late payment. I also have direct contact with both via text.
Therefore, all things considered plus the latest issues with the managing agent, I am looking at the £80-90 (c.10%) a month I pay for each property in management fees against the very little/poor service I get from them. Therefore, I am considering 'going it alone' and managing the properties myself moving forwards, which for all intents and purposes, I already do.
However, this would be a big brave step for me and before doing so I want to bounce the idea off the forum.....here goes with a few queries/concerns I have:
1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Any other thoughts would be welcome too - I want to cover all bases. Thanks in advance.
MattyD803 said:
1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
Aren't there additional landlord qualifications / certifications in Wales. i.e. don't you need to do some daft course or something (that is not required in England). ?https://rentsmart.gov.wales/en/landlord/landlord-r...
fat80b said:
Aren't there additional landlord qualifications / certifications in Wales. i.e. don't you need to do some daft course or something (that is not required in England). ?
https://rentsmart.gov.wales/en/landlord/landlord-r...
Yes, i'm signed up on said register and i've done said course....albeit it was some time ago, but it was nothing more than common sense from a H&S perspective. (i've ensured both properties are over and both the bare minimum requirements in most aspects anyway).https://rentsmart.gov.wales/en/landlord/landlord-r...
1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
As long as you're in reach of the tenant, in practise there's nothing you can't do which you were paying the agency for. I guess if it came to a messy eviction then you'd be 'alone' until you found a good solicitor.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
I would pay an agent to do this so you cover all legal bases incase of a messy eviction later.
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
I wouldn't.
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
Yes the agent should transfer this to you I believe.
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Check with the local council website for any other specific regs.
As long as you're in reach of the tenant, in practise there's nothing you can't do which you were paying the agency for. I guess if it came to a messy eviction then you'd be 'alone' until you found a good solicitor.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
I would pay an agent to do this so you cover all legal bases incase of a messy eviction later.
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
I wouldn't.
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
Yes the agent should transfer this to you I believe.
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Check with the local council website for any other specific regs.
Sounds like you just need a good agent.
I have two properties, one within 10 minutes, the other nearly 4 hours away.
I use to self manage both properties, but the one that is 4 hours away just became impractical. I had a good tenant, but a couple of issues that raised there heads during a holiday abroad and another during Christmas day changed my viewpoint.
I still manage the one nearby, but the other is fully managed. They have authority to directly liaise with the tenant and make repairs up to to value of £200. I don’t get involved at all.
All the certifications and renewals are carried out by them with a final approval from myself.
Since moving to fully managed at that property two years ago I have probably spend less than 5 minutes doing or thinking about it. They (certainly the lady that looks after them) have been fantastic. I have no worries that they strike a great balance between looking after the tenant, but also my best interests.
In short, not all agents are crap. I wouldn’t go solo being that far away and would try and find local recommendations for a good agent.
I have two properties, one within 10 minutes, the other nearly 4 hours away.
I use to self manage both properties, but the one that is 4 hours away just became impractical. I had a good tenant, but a couple of issues that raised there heads during a holiday abroad and another during Christmas day changed my viewpoint.
I still manage the one nearby, but the other is fully managed. They have authority to directly liaise with the tenant and make repairs up to to value of £200. I don’t get involved at all.
All the certifications and renewals are carried out by them with a final approval from myself.
Since moving to fully managed at that property two years ago I have probably spend less than 5 minutes doing or thinking about it. They (certainly the lady that looks after them) have been fantastic. I have no worries that they strike a great balance between looking after the tenant, but also my best interests.
In short, not all agents are crap. I wouldn’t go solo being that far away and would try and find local recommendations for a good agent.
Inspection, inspection, inspection.
With logged dates, times, whodunnit, inventory of issues raised and photographs.
6 monthly if no problems.
3 monthly or less if problems.
You will not be pleased with the results.
Use an agent for new tenants and inspections only.
Lastly (thank me later) READ THE CONTRACT, EVERY WORD, HAVE THE BIT ABOUT THE AGENT GETTING A (LARGE) % OF THE SALE PRICE IF THE TENANT, OR ANY OTHER INTRODUCED PARTY BUYS THE PROPERTY REMOVED, KILLED, ABOLISHED, DESTROYED WITH FIRE etc.
I did btw and it saved me a lot of money when I sold to the tenant.
I still can't believe that clause was in there.
With logged dates, times, whodunnit, inventory of issues raised and photographs.
6 monthly if no problems.
3 monthly or less if problems.
You will not be pleased with the results.
Use an agent for new tenants and inspections only.
Lastly (thank me later) READ THE CONTRACT, EVERY WORD, HAVE THE BIT ABOUT THE AGENT GETTING A (LARGE) % OF THE SALE PRICE IF THE TENANT, OR ANY OTHER INTRODUCED PARTY BUYS THE PROPERTY REMOVED, KILLED, ABOLISHED, DESTROYED WITH FIRE etc.
I did btw and it saved me a lot of money when I sold to the tenant.
I still can't believe that clause was in there.
MattyD803 said:
A
1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Any other thoughts would be welcome too - I want to cover all bases. Thanks in advance.
1 - You say "call centre" which makes it sound like they have some sort of 24 hour office - is that really the case? Or do they just have an out of hours number which is forwarded to someones mobile? So no different to you having your phone switched on next to your bed overnight?1) Primarily - what pitfalls have I not considered by 'going it alone', other than of course, not having a call centre who deals with the tenant directly.
2) Is it easy/difficult to prepare a contract myself when it comes to renewal time? Can I get a local estate agent to do this for me?
3) Should I offer both tenants a small discount on the monthly rent at renewal time, taking in account they have lost their own 'safety net' of an agent and for the hassle of them having to change their direct debit etc?
4) How is the 'deposit' managed? Will it remain with the DPS, but the "owner" changed from managing agent to me?
5) Is the onus on me for any other responsibilities that i'm not currently aware of? (Bearing in mind, properties are in Wales and some regs are different).
Any other thoughts would be welcome too - I want to cover all bases. Thanks in advance.
2. Regarding contracts most letting agents offer levels of service ranging from tenant finding / vetting, through to contracts/full legals, through to fully managed. Explore just having them doing the legals for you and dropping the fully managed bit.
3. No. Changing a DD takes seconds. They are getting to deal with you directly not a middle man, more personal service etc etc
4. Yes can change registration on DPS.
5. I can't comment about Wales but how are you planning on doing inspections when you are so far away?
I have two BTL properties one since 2008 one since 2012, one self managed having dropped the managing agent for being useless, and one with an agent. My 2ps worth off the top of my head:
- it's easy to get sucked in to thinking the self managed route is straightforward when you have great tenants in situ. Don't underestimate the potential problems/hassle factor when that is not the case.
- have more than one trusted and reliable trade in your little black book - not just one spark, one plumber etc - who can trust to deal with the tenant directly. There is nothing worse than becoming the intermediary broking service between tenant and trader when trying to schedule appointments.
- make sure you have your own set of keys for the property which work
- make sure you do regular documented inspections (6 months maximum between inspections). make sure the inspections are thorough including checking in the loft. Make sure you carry out preventitive maintenance when you can
- make sure you have a "what if I get knocked down by a bus" plan
- keep abreast of the latest laws / local authority requirements for landlords
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