How would you handle this situation - Legal advice
Discussion
We recently had an issue with a customer, in reality it was nothing but was blown out of the water for no reason. Without going in to mega detail, here is the jist of it..
He purchased a product from us in December, this product is a component which needs programming, either by us, a company we recommend or most registered dealers can do it if you prefer to get it done locally.
We sell a lot of these and never had an issue, they come from the distributor in the EU and we import and sell them in the UK. Last week we got an email from him stating he was having issues getting it programmed by his local shop so we recommended a company who can do it for him, he then replied and said that the local shop he had taken it to had told him the product was a dodgy item, possibly stolen, should not be sold in the UK and that the manufacturer is taking us to court for selling these in the UK.. wtf was our thought. So we replied asking for info on the shop so we could get to the bottom of this and did not receive a reply.
The following day we get a heavy handed email from a solicitor, insisting we are selling un-programmable items not fit for purpose, we have lied to our customer, there is a pending court case against us so she has advised he returns the item.
To get to the bottom of this I spoke to the shop who apparently made these accusations, they were decent guys and had no idea what was going on, they had not heard this before and remember the customer coming in and not being able to help him.
I then spoke to the solicitor who proceeded to talk over me and make out we were some kind of criminal enterprise, asking for our company details, and disagreeing with me when I told her the source of the products as she was adamant they had not come from where we had told her.
The item was purchased in December and she was told by the customer he purchased it last week, so after he disagreeing with me she finally read out the order number which infact was from December. She then backed off a bit and perhaps realised she was not 100% on this matter.
I then digged in to the court case comments she mentioned and asked who she spoke to as we need to confirm this, at that point she could not remember and was going to call the shop back.. We then proceeded to tell her and offered to show her all trade receipts for the goods from the manufacturer, import paperwork etc. At this point she didn't have much to say and I told her we need to be taking legal advice here as we are being blindsided by a customer and solicitor who rather than asking us about the product, origin etc we are being made out to be liars. She ended the call and I explained I need everything sending on email from now on so I have a paper trail.
Last night I get an email from her confirming the item is now being programmed by the company we recommended, the 'court case' is nothing more than hearsay (I presume a lie from her client which she didn't bother to verify), she advised us not to contact the customer anymore and that she is acting on on a 'personal capacity' for him.
_
I dont expect anything to happen on a serious level but the last few days have been stressful thinking were possibly getting taken to court by a large corporation, we have had a solicitor being heavy handed with us and being made out like we are a shop selling stolen goods to her customer and other trade contacts. Her initial accusations (which I have on email too) are nothing more than hearsay from her friend/'client' and she did not even have the correct info on the case such as purchase date or type of product. Its left a bad taste in my mouth and this could have been resolved within 5 mins with a phone call from the customer or an initial friendly chat with the solicitor to clear it all up.
What would you do in this situation? My other concern is this customer is/has spread these false accusations further afield.
Should we just forget it and move on? Can I complain to some kind of organisation against her shoddy work an attitude or perhaps direct to the MD's of her firm?
Thanks
He purchased a product from us in December, this product is a component which needs programming, either by us, a company we recommend or most registered dealers can do it if you prefer to get it done locally.
We sell a lot of these and never had an issue, they come from the distributor in the EU and we import and sell them in the UK. Last week we got an email from him stating he was having issues getting it programmed by his local shop so we recommended a company who can do it for him, he then replied and said that the local shop he had taken it to had told him the product was a dodgy item, possibly stolen, should not be sold in the UK and that the manufacturer is taking us to court for selling these in the UK.. wtf was our thought. So we replied asking for info on the shop so we could get to the bottom of this and did not receive a reply.
The following day we get a heavy handed email from a solicitor, insisting we are selling un-programmable items not fit for purpose, we have lied to our customer, there is a pending court case against us so she has advised he returns the item.
To get to the bottom of this I spoke to the shop who apparently made these accusations, they were decent guys and had no idea what was going on, they had not heard this before and remember the customer coming in and not being able to help him.
I then spoke to the solicitor who proceeded to talk over me and make out we were some kind of criminal enterprise, asking for our company details, and disagreeing with me when I told her the source of the products as she was adamant they had not come from where we had told her.
The item was purchased in December and she was told by the customer he purchased it last week, so after he disagreeing with me she finally read out the order number which infact was from December. She then backed off a bit and perhaps realised she was not 100% on this matter.
I then digged in to the court case comments she mentioned and asked who she spoke to as we need to confirm this, at that point she could not remember and was going to call the shop back.. We then proceeded to tell her and offered to show her all trade receipts for the goods from the manufacturer, import paperwork etc. At this point she didn't have much to say and I told her we need to be taking legal advice here as we are being blindsided by a customer and solicitor who rather than asking us about the product, origin etc we are being made out to be liars. She ended the call and I explained I need everything sending on email from now on so I have a paper trail.
Last night I get an email from her confirming the item is now being programmed by the company we recommended, the 'court case' is nothing more than hearsay (I presume a lie from her client which she didn't bother to verify), she advised us not to contact the customer anymore and that she is acting on on a 'personal capacity' for him.
_
I dont expect anything to happen on a serious level but the last few days have been stressful thinking were possibly getting taken to court by a large corporation, we have had a solicitor being heavy handed with us and being made out like we are a shop selling stolen goods to her customer and other trade contacts. Her initial accusations (which I have on email too) are nothing more than hearsay from her friend/'client' and she did not even have the correct info on the case such as purchase date or type of product. Its left a bad taste in my mouth and this could have been resolved within 5 mins with a phone call from the customer or an initial friendly chat with the solicitor to clear it all up.
What would you do in this situation? My other concern is this customer is/has spread these false accusations further afield.
Should we just forget it and move on? Can I complain to some kind of organisation against her shoddy work an attitude or perhaps direct to the MD's of her firm?
Thanks
Customer is a knob, just never sell to him/her again.
Solicitor, check the SRA personal registration details and consider making a complaint. Solicitors are not permitted to make allegations of dishonesty without having reasonable objective evidence. Also the 'I wasn't threatening on my firm's business' excuse, ie doing a favour just privately for a mate, just smacks of knowing wrongful conduct. That behaviour undermines public trust in the profession.
Solicitor, check the SRA personal registration details and consider making a complaint. Solicitors are not permitted to make allegations of dishonesty without having reasonable objective evidence. Also the 'I wasn't threatening on my firm's business' excuse, ie doing a favour just privately for a mate, just smacks of knowing wrongful conduct. That behaviour undermines public trust in the profession.
How frustrating. Still, phew.
I bet the relationship is somewhat soured between idiot and solicitor now.
I bet the relationship is somewhat soured between idiot and solicitor now.
HocusPocus said:
Customer is a knob, just never sell to him/her again.
Solicitor, check the SRA personal registration details and consider making a complaint. Solicitors are not permitted to make allegations of dishonesty without having reasonable objective evidence. Also the 'I wasn't threatening on my firm's business' excuse, ie doing a favour just privately for a mate, just smacks of knowing wrongful conduct. That behaviour undermines public trust in the profession.
I hope this can happen, just to make things more awkward since she went in guns blazing. (IANAL so I know nothing about what you mentioned.)Solicitor, check the SRA personal registration details and consider making a complaint. Solicitors are not permitted to make allegations of dishonesty without having reasonable objective evidence. Also the 'I wasn't threatening on my firm's business' excuse, ie doing a favour just privately for a mate, just smacks of knowing wrongful conduct. That behaviour undermines public trust in the profession.
This sounds odd, particularly the stuff about the solicitor. Generally they act in accordance with their client's instructions and in exchange for payment.
It will be very obvious where the "solicitor's email" has come from. Either,
MissMiggins@gregsonsolicitors.co.uk
or
MissMiggins@hotmail.co.uk
Which is it?
It will be very obvious where the "solicitor's email" has come from. Either,
MissMiggins@gregsonsolicitors.co.uk
or
MissMiggins@hotmail.co.uk
Which is it?
Panamax said:
This sounds odd, particularly the stuff about the solicitor. Generally they act in accordance with their client's instructions and in exchange for payment.
It will be very obvious where the "solicitor's email" has come from. Either,
MissMiggins@gregsonsolicitors.co.uk
or
MissMiggins@hotmail.co.uk
Which is it?
Its her company email, company logo on footer etc and its a large global law firm.It will be very obvious where the "solicitor's email" has come from. Either,
MissMiggins@gregsonsolicitors.co.uk
or
MissMiggins@hotmail.co.uk
Which is it?
She made no reference to her knowing the client until last night when she mentioned personal capacity, prior to they everything was kept professional however when discussing/arguing the case with her I had a feeling she knew him as she was talking more in a personal way.
Clearly he has lied to her, she has not done any research to verify his claims and then came all guns blazing with us until we disagreed with it all and backed it up.
rhamnousia5 said:
What should you do?
Nothing. The customer is an arse but many customers are. Let it go and move on.
The customer is an arse, my gripe is more with the solicitor who acted like a tool, accused us of being dodgy and spoke to us like we were idiots.. and didn't bother to verify anything she had been told.Nothing. The customer is an arse but many customers are. Let it go and move on.
Will anything happen? Probably not but there should be some repercussions for her and I think she knows that as I mentioned I was taking legal advice on the matter depending on he answers to the 'court case' and dodgy items we sell.
Just to add we have been in business 12 years and have 99% feedback (800 reviews) online, were hardly hiding behind anything to sell crap.
Solicitor has clearly crossed the lines by holding out to you this was a professional retainer matter on firm letterhead, and then say it is not. Also the duty to properly check before making accusations of dishonesty has been breached. Report her misconduct to her firm and the SRA.
BTW you reference a 'court case'. There is a pre-action protocol that must be adhered to in order to protect against costs and to ensure that potential litigants explain any claim in a legally intelligible way prior to issue of proceedings. All solicitors know that and cannot threaten lay persons with vague 'court case' just to intimidate.
BTW you reference a 'court case'. There is a pre-action protocol that must be adhered to in order to protect against costs and to ensure that potential litigants explain any claim in a legally intelligible way prior to issue of proceedings. All solicitors know that and cannot threaten lay persons with vague 'court case' just to intimidate.
Edited by HocusPocus on Wednesday 19th February 10:45
HocusPocus said:
Solicitor has clearly crossed the lines by holding out to you this was a professional retainer matter on firm letterhead, and then say it is not. Also the duty to properly check before making accusations of dishonesty has been breached. Report her misconduct to her firm and the SRA.
Thanks I will reach out to them.Is it worth replying to the solicitors email informing them of my actions and the reasons why?
JCKST1 said:
HocusPocus said:
Solicitor has clearly crossed the lines by holding out to you this was a professional retainer matter on firm letterhead, and then say it is not. Also the duty to properly check before making accusations of dishonesty has been breached. Report her misconduct to her firm and the SRA.
Thanks I will reach out to them.Is it worth replying to the solicitors email informing them of my actions and the reasons why?
I'd contact the managing partners of the solicitors as well as their complaints dept. I'd also request all information they hold on you as due to her using my company resources you probably exist on several of their systems and backups.
If she's used company email she's probably been daft enough to discuss you over other company channels such as Teams. Be interesting to see what she's said about you and your company to others.
Also do the SRA process.
She had no qualms about going in with the heavy boots, nor should you.
If she's used company email she's probably been daft enough to discuss you over other company channels such as Teams. Be interesting to see what she's said about you and your company to others.
Also do the SRA process.
She had no qualms about going in with the heavy boots, nor should you.
https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/standards-regula...
Read this as it explains the duties and integrity solicitors must adhere to. Dealing with any complaint will be an unpleasant and expensive experience for the lawyer and her firm. Bon chance
Read this as it explains the duties and integrity solicitors must adhere to. Dealing with any complaint will be an unpleasant and expensive experience for the lawyer and her firm. Bon chance
Sheets Tabuer said:
It's the customers Mrs.
Or relation/close friend. I wonder if an off the record conversation with them to ask if they want to perhaps read the riot act to your customer and explain what a mess he has put them in might be best all round.
Otherwise a discussion with the firms senior partner might be in order - depends on what result you want.
Suspect the individual concerned has realised they’ve balllsed up. Suspect your customer will never buy from you again regardless.
HocusPocus said:
https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/standards-regula...
Read this as it explains the duties and integrity solicitors must adhere to. Dealing with any complaint will be an unpleasant and expensive experience for the lawyer and her firm. Bon chance
https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/fraud-dishonesty/legal-threats-solicitor/ ....and definitely this which deals with your concern head on. I have successfully faced down SLAPP attempts in the past: over aggressive lawyers do the profession no favours and need to be weeded out or calmed down. An interesting large legal fight is great, but it has to be done properly.Read this as it explains the duties and integrity solicitors must adhere to. Dealing with any complaint will be an unpleasant and expensive experience for the lawyer and her firm. Bon chance
Sheets Tabuer said:
It's the customers Mrs.
It's his mum, and I bet it's not her first time so a shot across the managing partner's bows at least is needed. Terminator X said:
Move on, forget it.
TX.
No, the OP needs to go down the formal complaint route. If they don't they will end up with negative reviews all over the place which while potentially false and potentially libellous will impact their business. The purchaser and solicitor needs to understand there are serious consequences to making unfounded allegations and that the customer isn't always right. TX.
I would complain to the managing partner and the SRA about the false allegations and I would formally write back to the Solicitor setting out your position & invite their client to refer to Pressdram v Arkell
Collectingbrass said:
No, the OP needs to go down the formal complaint route. If they don't they will end up with negative reviews all over the place which while potentially false and potentially libellous will impact their business. The purchaser and solicitor needs to understand there are serious consequences to making unfounded allegations and that the customer isn't always right.
I'd be tempted to wait to see if anything negative comes up. Depends on how much time the OPer has to file a complaint.JCKST1 said:
She made no reference to her knowing the client until last night when she mentioned personal capacity
I may be wrong on this but my understanding is that within the legal services profession, there is no such thing. A solicitor may only act on a client's behalf if they have been properly and legally contracted to do so. Have you done any digging to see if there's a non-professional connection between them and if so, to what degree?
HocusPocus said:
Solicitor has clearly crossed the lines by holding out to you this was a professional retainer matter on firm letterhead, and then say it is not. Also the duty to properly check before making accusations of dishonesty has been breached. Report her misconduct to her firm and the SRA.
Yes, start by communicating with the "managing partner" at the firm. Their name and contact details will almost certainly be on the firm's website or just phone the firm and ask for the details.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff