Software Development
Discussion
Evening all,
I've had an idea! Currently own a small business but this is something completely alien to me and certainly not in my field of expertise. Whilst I'm researching, it would be an immense help to hear from others who have travelled this path already to share any common pitfalls and aid the learning curve.
The idea is software related. The technologies already exist, but the idea is to link them together to allow them to serve a specific purpose/function. As far as I can see, it doesn't exist at this moment in time.
I'm looking to understand in the first instance whether it's worth pursuing, trialling etc approx. costs going into development. Whether I need to start getting NDA's signed to discuss, what kind of energy is required and timescales/expectations to bring a concept like this to life - Ultimately whether I allocate more time and capital towards it.
There are a lot of software development companies around on the net, some say they'll do it for 10k, others 150k. Do I just find a guy on Fiver and crack on?
I've had a short discovery call with an EU company who were at the latter end of that pricing, and have one half of the idea that's similar-ish. They said they could tweak their own propriety software to allow me to create a standalone version to use how I wanted and licence the software from them.
Since that call my research has found there are broader and likely wider supported software options that may be an easier route to development and thus costs? For example using something google has created instead.
Appreciate any input, thank you.
I've had an idea! Currently own a small business but this is something completely alien to me and certainly not in my field of expertise. Whilst I'm researching, it would be an immense help to hear from others who have travelled this path already to share any common pitfalls and aid the learning curve.
The idea is software related. The technologies already exist, but the idea is to link them together to allow them to serve a specific purpose/function. As far as I can see, it doesn't exist at this moment in time.
I'm looking to understand in the first instance whether it's worth pursuing, trialling etc approx. costs going into development. Whether I need to start getting NDA's signed to discuss, what kind of energy is required and timescales/expectations to bring a concept like this to life - Ultimately whether I allocate more time and capital towards it.
There are a lot of software development companies around on the net, some say they'll do it for 10k, others 150k. Do I just find a guy on Fiver and crack on?
I've had a short discovery call with an EU company who were at the latter end of that pricing, and have one half of the idea that's similar-ish. They said they could tweak their own propriety software to allow me to create a standalone version to use how I wanted and licence the software from them.
Since that call my research has found there are broader and likely wider supported software options that may be an easier route to development and thus costs? For example using something google has created instead.
Appreciate any input, thank you.
Does it need infrastructure? Aws etc? Or is it local app ?
Who will support it and how ?
If you partner with another supplier who sells something similar, whats to stop them controlling your development?
Data security?
Ongoing development options ?
Licensing models - basic standard, premium?
Can you patant it ? If its a success you prob have 5 yr window before its copied- how will you stay ahead of the game ?
Who will support it and how ?
If you partner with another supplier who sells something similar, whats to stop them controlling your development?
Data security?
Ongoing development options ?
Licensing models - basic standard, premium?
Can you patant it ? If its a success you prob have 5 yr window before its copied- how will you stay ahead of the game ?
I work in Software Engineering.
Building products/integrations is (very) expensive. I’d recommend testing your idea in the cheapest possible way with potential customers to check desirability before committing large sums into development.
Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
Sounds like an interesting opportunity, would be happy to chat if it would help.
Building products/integrations is (very) expensive. I’d recommend testing your idea in the cheapest possible way with potential customers to check desirability before committing large sums into development.
Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
Sounds like an interesting opportunity, would be happy to chat if it would help.
This is a tricky one from your point of view to be honest.
Ideally you would have someone on your 'side' who understands the collection of technologies you are looking at and can call BS on anyone proposing timescales, solutions etc.
Without that you are subject to someone 'selling' you their services and, as you have already seen they will quote vastly different things, some will be high because they think it will be tricky, some because they don't really want the work, other quotes will be low where they might underestimate the work or they don't understand what is required.
The way I generally work in this scenario would be to ask you to use PowerPoint or Visio or some equivalent and go and draw all of the bits you are expecting a user to see and show me what it looks like, then we can discuss what all the bits are supposed to do. However, I mostly work in an area where the result is something users interact with.
If your idea is more of a service that runs in the background clearly you can't take that approach, at that point you may be forced to get the best people you can from each of the software products that need to ineract and sit down with those people to find out what one item can send and what one item can receive.
As has been mentioned above, getting software to talk to other software is often not simple!
One thing I will say though is do NOT start with written requirements documentation, if the people you are talking to cannot understand your idea and 'replay' it back to you in a convincing way then they don't understand your requirements and written words do not help. It becomes Chinese whispers and critical detail will be lost and IT is literally all about detail! You will end up with a car and the gearstick will be in the boot.
Ideally you would have someone on your 'side' who understands the collection of technologies you are looking at and can call BS on anyone proposing timescales, solutions etc.
Without that you are subject to someone 'selling' you their services and, as you have already seen they will quote vastly different things, some will be high because they think it will be tricky, some because they don't really want the work, other quotes will be low where they might underestimate the work or they don't understand what is required.
The way I generally work in this scenario would be to ask you to use PowerPoint or Visio or some equivalent and go and draw all of the bits you are expecting a user to see and show me what it looks like, then we can discuss what all the bits are supposed to do. However, I mostly work in an area where the result is something users interact with.
If your idea is more of a service that runs in the background clearly you can't take that approach, at that point you may be forced to get the best people you can from each of the software products that need to ineract and sit down with those people to find out what one item can send and what one item can receive.
As has been mentioned above, getting software to talk to other software is often not simple!
One thing I will say though is do NOT start with written requirements documentation, if the people you are talking to cannot understand your idea and 'replay' it back to you in a convincing way then they don't understand your requirements and written words do not help. It becomes Chinese whispers and critical detail will be lost and IT is literally all about detail! You will end up with a car and the gearstick will be in the boot.
SS9 said:
Building products/integrations is (very) expensive. I’d recommend testing your idea in the cheapest possible way with potential customers to check desirability before committing large sums into development.
Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
This is excellent advice. Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
Before I retired, I worked for software (and some hardware) product companies for over 40 years; here are some of the things to think about
You don't say whether you are looking at developing software
- because it's something your company needs or wants (competitive advantage)
- because you think that it will advance the state of the industry you're in (altruistic)
- because you believe your company could sell this as a product (sideline)
- because you would like to pivot to doing this as a primary source of income (become a product company) ?
What's the total addressable market, how many customers do you think you can sell to, at what sort of price point ?
I've led the development of products that sell to consumer markets at £100 a seat up to hardware selling at £2M a pop and enterprise software with an average license sale in the tens of millions - they all entail different considerations
Is this something that will run on-prem on the customer's own computers, or hosted, or in the cloud? All have their own support challenges and costs
You mention using existing technologies, but you can also patent a novel way of combining technologies, which you may want to do if there is otherwise nothing to stop a third party copying the idea, if successful. Have you talked to a patent attorney and/or got an idea of the costs of an IP search to checked that what you're thinking of isnt't already protected?
There's due diligence to do before you even thinking about investing in the software side of things
Mike
You don't say whether you are looking at developing software
- because it's something your company needs or wants (competitive advantage)
- because you think that it will advance the state of the industry you're in (altruistic)
- because you believe your company could sell this as a product (sideline)
- because you would like to pivot to doing this as a primary source of income (become a product company) ?
What's the total addressable market, how many customers do you think you can sell to, at what sort of price point ?
I've led the development of products that sell to consumer markets at £100 a seat up to hardware selling at £2M a pop and enterprise software with an average license sale in the tens of millions - they all entail different considerations
Is this something that will run on-prem on the customer's own computers, or hosted, or in the cloud? All have their own support challenges and costs
You mention using existing technologies, but you can also patent a novel way of combining technologies, which you may want to do if there is otherwise nothing to stop a third party copying the idea, if successful. Have you talked to a patent attorney and/or got an idea of the costs of an IP search to checked that what you're thinking of isnt't already protected?
There's due diligence to do before you even thinking about investing in the software side of things
Mike
Classy6 said:
There are a lot of software development companies around on the net, some say they'll do it for 10k, others 150k. Do I just find a guy on Fiver and crack on?
My experience on the freelance sector:You hardly ever get what you dream of, I see ads of people looking to finish an app, o-ton: just a touch up. Needless to say that those people do not develop.
If you have a large project, a complex development, you most likely need to pay parts up front.
Giving someone you don't know 2k in $ is a risk. By doing that on fiverr you chances are that you are left with little to no development. Or an app you can buy on envato.
For reference, I'm a software dev so I have a rough idea of the costs to build and run software, the TLDR is that it can be costly but most of the cost will be in licencing third party software and developer time.
I'd be cautious hiring from Fiverr unless your idea is pretty simple, my experience of cheaper devs is that you really do get what you pay for.
If I were you i'd consider partnering with a developer who has time to work on your app in the evenings in exchange for a small fee and equity, that should reduce the initial cost to build considerably, of course, the complexity of what you want to build will determine timescales and therefore a level of cost depending on the agreement you make.
Hosting your application can be very cheap these days, AWS offer free-tier services that may be enough to get you off the ground with low costs at least initially.
A good way to determine if your idea is worth investing in would be creating a mockup using a tool such as figma and inviting potential customers to trial it and provide feedback, I regularly use figma mockups with clients to determine if software solutions are viable before sinking the cost of a team into them.
I'd be cautious hiring from Fiverr unless your idea is pretty simple, my experience of cheaper devs is that you really do get what you pay for.
If I were you i'd consider partnering with a developer who has time to work on your app in the evenings in exchange for a small fee and equity, that should reduce the initial cost to build considerably, of course, the complexity of what you want to build will determine timescales and therefore a level of cost depending on the agreement you make.
Hosting your application can be very cheap these days, AWS offer free-tier services that may be enough to get you off the ground with low costs at least initially.
A good way to determine if your idea is worth investing in would be creating a mockup using a tool such as figma and inviting potential customers to trial it and provide feedback, I regularly use figma mockups with clients to determine if software solutions are viable before sinking the cost of a team into them.
you could try the 'vapour ware' approach.
Mock it up in Axure, sell it into your market/customer base, see if they 'get it' and will pay for it. Determine how much they will pay for it, work out whether it can be duplicated and sold on to another business. Generate your revenue from repeat sales and a monthly subscription then build it. The key to this is that your customer base needs to understand the benefit to them and you need to not sell them the tech, but the benefit
Start with a minimum viable product and then build on it when the revenue arrives.
You'll always be chasing your tail doing this, but if you can get enough customers and have a clear product road map you might be able to spin the business to a VC and cash out.
maybe.
Mock it up in Axure, sell it into your market/customer base, see if they 'get it' and will pay for it. Determine how much they will pay for it, work out whether it can be duplicated and sold on to another business. Generate your revenue from repeat sales and a monthly subscription then build it. The key to this is that your customer base needs to understand the benefit to them and you need to not sell them the tech, but the benefit
Start with a minimum viable product and then build on it when the revenue arrives.
You'll always be chasing your tail doing this, but if you can get enough customers and have a clear product road map you might be able to spin the business to a VC and cash out.
maybe.
miniman said:
SS9 said:
Building products/integrations is (very) expensive. I’d recommend testing your idea in the cheapest possible way with potential customers to check desirability before committing large sums into development.
Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
This is excellent advice. Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
If you have a clear subset of target users, and something ( a Figma mockup, some powerpoint slides, even paper) you gave a starting point to understanding
Is there a need at all
Is the need already being met / partially met
In the client's own mind - What problems exactly need to be solved
(As a chosen user, I need yyy so that ZZZ is solved effectively; these are called problem statements)
Can your offer be communicated effectively, clearly, persuasively
What aspects of your solution have most value (so you can use expensive time to mock-up in better fidelity. )This will help you build more confidence in your assumptions. 'iteration' as mentioned above.
When you have enough oomph behind the concept, a good user researcher, with no bias, should be able to get potential users to give a range of prices at which the products attractive for them / their org.
etc , etc.
Basically, approached with some clarity, you can de-risk the whole thing, and as you iterate, getting the target market to accept / reject / improve your business idea and hypotheses.
Hope that helps. And happy to help further. I love these experiments.
Edited by kevinon on Tuesday 21st January 17:10
It's quite hard to tell from the limited info you've given, but assuming this is an actual new product, and not a simple API integration that needs building, then the below is very good advice - Test the market before you build anything.
1. As a first step I would get a high level but clear overview of what you want to build put together as other have pointed out (audience, functionality and the value proposition)
2. Work backwards to define a roadmap - Features you need for day 1 to function vs nice-to-have.
3. Work with a product/UX designer to design and create a basic prototype in Figma without building anything. Feed that back into the waitlist the above post mentioned, and use it to start having real discussions with software developers.
SS9 said:
...Building products/integrations is (very) expensive. I’d recommend testing your idea in the cheapest possible way with potential customers to check desirability before committing large sums into development.
Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
...It is subjective, and I'm bias (I run a design studio) but I would strongly recommend starting out with strategy, and design, BEFORE you get a developer involved - They are two very different ways of thinking, and will not lead to the same results. Run some ads going to a waiting list, spin up a basic mock up and do some user interviews to gauge response, consider the simplest feature and launch that first to measure response/uptake and iterate from there etc.
1. As a first step I would get a high level but clear overview of what you want to build put together as other have pointed out (audience, functionality and the value proposition)
2. Work backwards to define a roadmap - Features you need for day 1 to function vs nice-to-have.
3. Work with a product/UX designer to design and create a basic prototype in Figma without building anything. Feed that back into the waitlist the above post mentioned, and use it to start having real discussions with software developers.
Thank you all for your input. Spent most of the evening researching and looking into your suggestions.
The concept is valid for any business that carries out inspections/checks of anything. Continuing the research, I don’t think it will be long before software applications that utilise checklists bring on board these features by themselves – albeit they haven’t yet!
The thought was around whether an app/program that could be created to get there first, utilising some of that software that already exists to develop the backend of it further and improve/enhance it.
I’m not sure if you developed an integration for Microsoft Dynamics for example, whether that would have legs as a standalone business to “sell” an integration, or if this is even viable?
Alternatively, something like fast field forms who have developed their own proprietary checklists likely wouldn’t collaborate, in which case a rival app/program needs to be created to enable the customer to use the base application. Then I imagine, unless well protected and globally patented they would create their own version of the additional features shortly after on top of their already very well developed checklist infrastructure!
I’m sure there is enough business to go around but the angle of entry has definitely reduced. I’ll pause for thought 😊
The concept is valid for any business that carries out inspections/checks of anything. Continuing the research, I don’t think it will be long before software applications that utilise checklists bring on board these features by themselves – albeit they haven’t yet!
The thought was around whether an app/program that could be created to get there first, utilising some of that software that already exists to develop the backend of it further and improve/enhance it.
I’m not sure if you developed an integration for Microsoft Dynamics for example, whether that would have legs as a standalone business to “sell” an integration, or if this is even viable?
Alternatively, something like fast field forms who have developed their own proprietary checklists likely wouldn’t collaborate, in which case a rival app/program needs to be created to enable the customer to use the base application. Then I imagine, unless well protected and globally patented they would create their own version of the additional features shortly after on top of their already very well developed checklist infrastructure!
I’m sure there is enough business to go around but the angle of entry has definitely reduced. I’ll pause for thought 😊
If I get this right, there's an existing commercial product that doesn't have a feature you'd like. You've asked them about including it and their position is "it's not on the roadmap right now" or "we don't think it's commercially viable to add that to our product". Is that it?
What Ive seen happen before is that a startup will then invest in building a rival product that includes the feature, or offer the feature as an "add-on" to the first product. Then if it does prove to be commercially viable, the larger software developer just adds the feature at low cost to themselves. Microsoft and Apple, among others, have done this many times
What Ive seen happen before is that a startup will then invest in building a rival product that includes the feature, or offer the feature as an "add-on" to the first product. Then if it does prove to be commercially viable, the larger software developer just adds the feature at low cost to themselves. Microsoft and Apple, among others, have done this many times
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