Personally Buying A Car From Own Company

Personally Buying A Car From Own Company

Author
Discussion

orbit123

Original Poster:

259 posts

199 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
I've situation where I'd like to buy the company car I use from company I'm the director of.
Our accountant says fine with a valuation to support what I pay for it but seem a bit vague on what is a solid valuation.
Has anyone done this before?

I'd like to do it as fully at-arms-length as possible to keep HMRC happy and mindful online valuation (from WBAC or Motorway) doesn't always match what they'd pay when you go ahead and have it inspected etc. I'm not trying to gain a benefit by having it under of overvalued.

PoorCarCollector

126 posts

27 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
I've done it a couple of times over the years and always used the WBAC valuation, dowloaded/printed for the accounts/attached to the sales invoice and my accountant has been fine with that.

RicksAlfas

13,652 posts

251 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
PoorCarCollector said:
I've done it a couple of times over the years and always used the WBAC valuation, dowloaded/printed for the accounts/attached to the sales invoice and my accountant has been fine with that.
+ 1.

orbit123

Original Poster:

259 posts

199 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
Great, thanks both!

trickywoo

12,294 posts

237 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
What’s the vat situation with this?

I know if the company reclaimed the vat on a van at purchase that they have to charge vat on the sale but don’t know if it’s the same for cars.

For the outright valuation I’d agree with what’s already been said.

LastPoster

2,713 posts

190 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
I bought one of my old company cars, I’m just an employee not a director/shareholder.

VAT was payable (Multi billion pound turnover, fleet was a seperate company) but the price as quoted matched the market value as supplied by the company that bought up most of the fleet disposals. I paid a price that didn’t show VAT separately when I was given the quote but when the final invoice was sent it was shown separately. I didn’t pay extra IYSWIM

RicksAlfas

13,652 posts

251 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
Vans will need VAT applying because the company will have reclaimed VAT on the purchase.
You can't normally reclaim VAT on car purchases, therefore they don't need VAT applying when you sell them.

This is on my experience of selling them at three or four years old.

BlackTails

831 posts

62 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
orbit123 said:
I've situation where I'd like to buy the company car I use from company I'm the director of.
Our accountant says fine with a valuation to support what I pay for it but seem a bit vague on what is a solid valuation.
Has anyone done this before?

I'd like to do it as fully at-arms-length as possible to keep HMRC happy and mindful online valuation (from WBAC or Motorway) doesn't always match what they'd pay when you go ahead and have it inspected etc. I'm not trying to gain a benefit by having it under of overvalued.
Who are the shareholders of the company?

orbit123

Original Poster:

259 posts

199 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
BlackTails said:
orbit123 said:
I've situation where I'd like to buy the company car I use from company I'm the director of.
Our accountant says fine with a valuation to support what I pay for it but seem a bit vague on what is a solid valuation.
Has anyone done this before?

I'd like to do it as fully at-arms-length as possible to keep HMRC happy and mindful online valuation (from WBAC or Motorway) doesn't always match what they'd pay when you go ahead and have it inspected etc. I'm not trying to gain a benefit by having it under of overvalued.
Who are the shareholders of the company?
It's an EOT (a trust) that owns the company. I'm a trustee.
I guess I have autonomy to set the price sold for but would like to have it entirely by the book.

BlackTails

831 posts

62 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
You’ve got a few angles to consider:

- You’re a director. That means you owe what are called fiduciary obligations to the company to act in its best interest in preference to yours and not to make a profit at its expense. You really want to have shareholder sanction for a sale by the company to you, and the shareholders should be told to get their own valuation before they sanction - ie be fully informed in advance of saying yes.

- The shareholder is a trust. The trustees of a trust are able to act for a trust. You’re a trustee. But you can’t simply pop your director’s hat off, pop your trustee’s hat on and say, “yep, that price works”, and sign the contract of sale. This is because a trustee owes the same sorts of fiduciary obligations to the beneficiaries of the trust as a director owes to his company. The beneficiaries are I assume the employees. So now it becomes the employees who need to sanction this sale on a fully informed basis.

- I guess the next step will be that you’re one, and possibly the only, employee. If you’re one of a few, the others need to give a fully informed consent. If it’s just you, you can do the hat swapping routine by yourself. But in either event, you should have a weather eye on creditors of the company.

- If the company has financial issues which might mean it could be said to be bordering on insolvency, then as a director you need to consider whether creditors would or might be prejudiced by this sale. Is full value coming to the company? If the company subsequently went under, a liquidator could look at the sale with a view to coming after you for a shortfall in value.

- The taxman angle. The taxman might be one of the creditors who’d kick off under the preceding heading, but the more immediate concerns are whether VAT is accounted for properly on a sale and whether the value of the sale is sufficiently under market value that you’re really getting an unaccounted for benefit in kind.

All that said, unless this is a highly valuable car, chances are that the amounts at stake (the difference between true value and transaction value) won’t make it worth anyone’s while coming after you. But that can be a slightly uncomfortable gamble for many people.

orbit123

Original Poster:

259 posts

199 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
Thanks very much - kind of things I was thinking of when I posted and feels a bit muddy given my role in selling and buying.
I expect very unlikely to be any fallout but possibly more hassle than it's worth.
Appreciate the input!