Does this claim have any merit?
Discussion
Hoping you guys might be able to help.
Received an email from the Administrators of a transport company (WHB) that we had been using on an ad-hoc basis for the past 16/17 years. The email stated that we had incurred interest on an overdue invoice from 2021 that totaled £0.62 - this £0.62 interest was unpaid (we had no knowledge of the interest and WHB did not invoice us for it at the time) and, once their costs were added on, they have invoiced us for £44.68.
We had paid that invoice, in full, as soon as we were made aware by WHB that it was overdue and we didn't hear from WHB after that (we have the emails to confirm this).
My question is, is this demand valid? We had paid the invoice in full as requested by WHB in 2021 and WHB did not mention any interest nor did the invoices that they sent stipulate any charges over and above the original invoice. We paid the overdue invoice and, as far as we were concerned, that was that. 3 years down the line and now we have a demand for the interest plus costs?
Thanks in advance.
Received an email from the Administrators of a transport company (WHB) that we had been using on an ad-hoc basis for the past 16/17 years. The email stated that we had incurred interest on an overdue invoice from 2021 that totaled £0.62 - this £0.62 interest was unpaid (we had no knowledge of the interest and WHB did not invoice us for it at the time) and, once their costs were added on, they have invoiced us for £44.68.
We had paid that invoice, in full, as soon as we were made aware by WHB that it was overdue and we didn't hear from WHB after that (we have the emails to confirm this).
My question is, is this demand valid? We had paid the invoice in full as requested by WHB in 2021 and WHB did not mention any interest nor did the invoices that they sent stipulate any charges over and above the original invoice. We paid the overdue invoice and, as far as we were concerned, that was that. 3 years down the line and now we have a demand for the interest plus costs?
Thanks in advance.
My take on this is.....
As the 62p would have been an additional charge, a second invoice would have had to be produced, otherwise there is no way in which the money can be accounted for when it is paid. You are therefore entitled to see a copy of that invoice - or some other form of direct request for payment of the same issued at the time.
If they are somehow able to conjure up this evidence, then for the sake of £45 I'd pay it and move on.
If not, I'd send them the evidence you mention and suggest that no further money is owed. For the sake of £45, I would imagine they'd accept that and move on.
Administrators are legally required to act in the interests of creditors which means hoovering up whatever cash they can. I would imagine that they have an overzealous intern or junior piling over contracts - which may well refer to interest on overdue invoices - without checking the paper trails for the measures needed to trigger the interest payment request.
As the 62p would have been an additional charge, a second invoice would have had to be produced, otherwise there is no way in which the money can be accounted for when it is paid. You are therefore entitled to see a copy of that invoice - or some other form of direct request for payment of the same issued at the time.
If they are somehow able to conjure up this evidence, then for the sake of £45 I'd pay it and move on.
If not, I'd send them the evidence you mention and suggest that no further money is owed. For the sake of £45, I would imagine they'd accept that and move on.
Administrators are legally required to act in the interests of creditors which means hoovering up whatever cash they can. I would imagine that they have an overzealous intern or junior piling over contracts - which may well refer to interest on overdue invoices - without checking the paper trails for the measures needed to trigger the interest payment request.
M1AGM said:
If they did not make you aware of the interest charge, or raise an invoice, they do not have a claim against you. You cannot be held liable for interest and charges on a debt they had not told you you owe. I’d offer them the 62p as goodwill and final offer.
Exactly. And in my letter would be a cheque for 62p.This is the second time I've heard of this recently (and never before). Have discussed it with some of the insol firms I deal with and none have ever gone down this route. I suspect it's a strategy from some, or one, smaller firms. All the larger firms simply said it wouldn't be commercial other than maybe for ££££.
I guess they are using the late payment statutory system? But don't know the details and note you paid the company on time.
I guess they are using the late payment statutory system? But don't know the details and note you paid the company on time.
I'd imagine they had a contractual right to charge the interest and chose not to at the time. It's within 6 years so not timed out.
I can't see where you've a contractual obligation to pay the administrator's fees unless that was also bundled into the contractual side at the time. If it isn't there perhaps offer to pay the pennies of interest contractually owed but decline to pay the fees.
I can't see where you've a contractual obligation to pay the administrator's fees unless that was also bundled into the contractual side at the time. If it isn't there perhaps offer to pay the pennies of interest contractually owed but decline to pay the fees.
Many thanks for the replies - appreciate the input.
The original invoice was for £30.00 in August 2021- this became overdue purely due to an oversight on our part. WHB accounts then emailed us and stated the following
11 August 2021
FAO Accounts Payable
We have noticed your account with us is overdue, details as noted below. Please can we have your full
payment by return post or directly into the bank. Please note our payment terms are 21 days from month of
invoice.
A/C No.: ***********
Sort Code: *********
Inv Ref Date Details Value
216645 09/06/2021 Goods/Services £ 30.00
Total Amount Overdue : £ 30.00
As soon as the overdue invoice was brought to our attention, we made immediate payment for the £30.00 as requested by their accounts department and that was the end of communication for that invoice.
As others have stated, there was no new invoice for the £30.00 + £0.62 interest and no mention of it either. We were just asked to settle the original amount, as detailed above.
The issue we have now, is the Administrator has made their demand based on the following reason:
Circumstances Resulting in The Debt Becoming Payable
We understand that you previously contracted with the above-named Supplier in relation to the supply of services. The Supplier has since entered Administration and is now acting by its Joint Administrators, Marco Piacquadio and Alan Coleman, who act as agents without personal liability.
Pursuant to the supply of services, the Supplier raised invoices to you as set out on the attached schedule. The terms of payment of these invoices were that invoices were to be paid within 0.
We are instructed that although the invoices were paid, they were however paid late and in breach of the payment terms between you and the Supplier.
As a result of the late payment of the above invoices, the Supplier is entitled to claim interest and compensation in accordance with the terms of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 (as amended) (“the Act”).
The total amount due for payment is £44.68
Now, what the Administrator has stated above could be correct (I cannot confirm nor deny this as the T&Cs were only avialable on request at the time and the business is no longer trading so how can I check???), but the accounts department did not send me a revised invoice and merely requested payment for the original amount, which we paid.
The Administrators have now sent a further email stating
Our Client Coldbath Solutions Limited has asked us to contact again before proceeding with escalation off the back of the Letter Before Action.
f
k me -all this for £45 that started off as £0.62 that I didn't know about from 3 years ago...... I minded to pay it just to end the hassle, but on the other hand I feel that these are bully-boy tactics using threats to extract money from anyone in order to feather their own nests.
The original invoice was for £30.00 in August 2021- this became overdue purely due to an oversight on our part. WHB accounts then emailed us and stated the following
11 August 2021
FAO Accounts Payable
We have noticed your account with us is overdue, details as noted below. Please can we have your full
payment by return post or directly into the bank. Please note our payment terms are 21 days from month of
invoice.
A/C No.: ***********
Sort Code: *********
Inv Ref Date Details Value
216645 09/06/2021 Goods/Services £ 30.00
Total Amount Overdue : £ 30.00
As soon as the overdue invoice was brought to our attention, we made immediate payment for the £30.00 as requested by their accounts department and that was the end of communication for that invoice.
As others have stated, there was no new invoice for the £30.00 + £0.62 interest and no mention of it either. We were just asked to settle the original amount, as detailed above.
The issue we have now, is the Administrator has made their demand based on the following reason:
Circumstances Resulting in The Debt Becoming Payable
We understand that you previously contracted with the above-named Supplier in relation to the supply of services. The Supplier has since entered Administration and is now acting by its Joint Administrators, Marco Piacquadio and Alan Coleman, who act as agents without personal liability.
Pursuant to the supply of services, the Supplier raised invoices to you as set out on the attached schedule. The terms of payment of these invoices were that invoices were to be paid within 0.
We are instructed that although the invoices were paid, they were however paid late and in breach of the payment terms between you and the Supplier.
As a result of the late payment of the above invoices, the Supplier is entitled to claim interest and compensation in accordance with the terms of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 (as amended) (“the Act”).
The total amount due for payment is £44.68
Now, what the Administrator has stated above could be correct (I cannot confirm nor deny this as the T&Cs were only avialable on request at the time and the business is no longer trading so how can I check???), but the accounts department did not send me a revised invoice and merely requested payment for the original amount, which we paid.
The Administrators have now sent a further email stating
Our Client Coldbath Solutions Limited has asked us to contact again before proceeding with escalation off the back of the Letter Before Action.
f
k me -all this for £45 that started off as £0.62 that I didn't know about from 3 years ago...... I minded to pay it just to end the hassle, but on the other hand I feel that these are bully-boy tactics using threats to extract money from anyone in order to feather their own nests.Lots of wrong information here, perhaps this would help:
https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-intere...
However, just because you owe it does mean they will try any further than this to get you to pay, though they can. I’d still ignore it for now.
https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-intere...
However, just because you owe it does mean they will try any further than this to get you to pay, though they can. I’d still ignore it for now.
HolyMoly said:
fk me -all this for £45 that started off as £0.62 that I didn't know about from 3 years ago...... I minded to pay it just to end the hassle, but on the other hand I feel that these are bully-boy tactics using threats to extract money from anyone in order to feather their own nests.
I'd be inclined to ignore it myself, I don't think they'll raise a CC claim for such a small amount.k me -all this for £45 that started off as £0.62 that I didn't know about from 3 years ago...... I minded to pay it just to end the hassle, but on the other hand I feel that these are bully-boy tactics using threats to extract money from anyone in order to feather their own nests.They are technically correct however that they can claim this, but common sense would say that for such a small amount it's not worth it. I would imagine they have gone through every invoice for the last 6 years and levied this against every single client.
Cyberprog said:
I'd be inclined to ignore it myself, I don't think they'll raise a CC claim for such a small amount.
They are technically correct however that they can claim this, but common sense would say that for such a small amount it's not worth it. I would imagine they have gone through every invoice for the last 6 years and levied this against every single client.
I’m not sure they are technically correct at all. The T&Cs might have said they could levy interest and charges for late payment but having not provided a bill/invoice/request for payment of the interest charge at any point prior to this recent communication, the actions are not reasonable and I would be surprised if this is acceptable in law. How would the OP know to send a payment of 62p when there was no communication about it? Should he/she possess mind reading abilities. It is absurd.They are technically correct however that they can claim this, but common sense would say that for such a small amount it's not worth it. I would imagine they have gone through every invoice for the last 6 years and levied this against every single client.
The more I think about this the more it feels like administrators trying to justify their costs by generating work whilst winding up the business. There is no way the creditors are better off paying for insolvency practitioners to chase £44 fabricated debts such is the madness of the insolvency game.
I would be asking for the original request for payment of 62p and offer to settle that upon receipt.
RM said:
Lots of wrong information here, perhaps this would help:
https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-intere...
However, just because you owe it does mean they will try any further than this to get you to pay, though they can. I’d still ignore it for now.
Said:https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-intere...
However, just because you owe it does mean they will try any further than this to get you to pay, though they can. I’d still ignore it for now.
Send a new invoice if you decide to add interest to the money you’re owed.
Thanks for the replies.
Company was put in to Creditors voluntary liquidation in 2024.
https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
First email we received regarding the overdue payment was 28 October.
If the Administrator has access to all the company records, they can see that no revised invoice for the late payment + interest was sent to us - yet they are using the threat of legal action to force payment of a non-existent debt - isn't this akin to a demand with menaces i.e. illegal?
Company was put in to Creditors voluntary liquidation in 2024.
https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
First email we received regarding the overdue payment was 28 October.
If the Administrator has access to all the company records, they can see that no revised invoice for the late payment + interest was sent to us - yet they are using the threat of legal action to force payment of a non-existent debt - isn't this akin to a demand with menaces i.e. illegal?
HolyMoly said:
First email we received regarding the overdue payment was 28 October.
If the Administrator has access to all the company records, they can see that no revised invoice for the late payment + interest was sent to us - yet they are using the threat of legal action to force payment of a non-existent debt - isn't this akin to a demand with menaces i.e. illegal?
No.If the Administrator has access to all the company records, they can see that no revised invoice for the late payment + interest was sent to us - yet they are using the threat of legal action to force payment of a non-existent debt - isn't this akin to a demand with menaces i.e. illegal?
The debt existed the moment you paid the invoice late. The terms and conditions, that others have mentioned, only affect when the payment becomes late.
After that, the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 kicks in. It defines what interest can be charged and a debt recovery cost (in this case £40).
The fact that no one has asked for this debt to be paid before now is not relevant, as long as it occurred within the last 6 years.
At the risk of repeating myself, and others, I would ignore it as I doubt they would take legal action to recover such a small debt.
From reading your 2nd post with the letter I would guess the administrator has appointed coldbath to collect on their behalf, and I suspect that's along the lines of coldbath paying for the priviledge.
I guess so far as administrators duties they are maximising value for the creditors but this does smack of being sharp at the very least.
Noting we've not had any lawyers post on here I've asked a couple myself to see if they give any guidance. But suspect the answer will be 1) ignore and take the risk or 2)pay someone legal to defend.
Personally I would go for 1 but do bear in mind it's with a firm who presumably have built a business model around this.
I've also asked the other guy I know who had come across this to confirm the IP to see if it's the same game and will let you know if they confirm.
I guess so far as administrators duties they are maximising value for the creditors but this does smack of being sharp at the very least.
Noting we've not had any lawyers post on here I've asked a couple myself to see if they give any guidance. But suspect the answer will be 1) ignore and take the risk or 2)pay someone legal to defend.
Personally I would go for 1 but do bear in mind it's with a firm who presumably have built a business model around this.
I've also asked the other guy I know who had come across this to confirm the IP to see if it's the same game and will let you know if they confirm.
Edited by sleepezy on Thursday 7th November 09:02
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