Why Doesn't Anyone Want to Take Responsibility?

[Glassman]

I recently ordered a product which had a specific code: Sika Aktivator-PRO. The images and product description matched what I wanted, so I ordered. Everything about the process seemed to be going very well. However, when the product was delivered, it was wrong; it was Sika Aktivator-100.

The company I ordered from started by giving me the 'we cannot change an order after it has been dispatched' horsest, and when I reminded them of what I actually ordered, it has now turned into a 'our supplier partner' issue. I'm getting nothing out of them because their 'partner' is taking their time in responding (which isn't my problem).

Seems to me, when you're ordering/booking/confirming, the service ranges from okay to good. But when something goes wrong, why do they think they can point the finger elsewhere?

Booked a holiday let in Zeeland, Holland with VRBO and the process seemed to be good. Got there and there were no towels and the heating was on a separate meter (tokens bought from the resort management company). There was no mention of any of this in the listing and when i asked VRBO the question, they suggested I speak to the property owner. Huh? Why? I paid you!

Just Eats/Deliveroo are great at taking your money when you order. If something goes wrong, they direct you to the vendor. The vendor doesn't want to know and bats you back to them!

Take some responsibility and deliver customer service!

JLR - I'm having a lot of issues ordering parts from them - mainly windscreens - and it's just poor service all round. Getting through to them is the biggest challenge.

I think everyonbe should be trained by Waitrose* or John Lewis*.

(*) Someone will probably come along and tell us of a bad experience they had now!

[akirk]

one of the recent trends in business has been aggregators / market places - where the company:
- does no work
- takes a % of the transaction
- takes no responsibility

If you think about a traditional small town / farmer's market - then it makes sense - why would the market organiser be responsible for the products being sold on a specific stall, surely that is the stall holder's responsibility...

however, online is not so simple - the marketplace:
- manages the transaction and takes the funds
- brands the experience
- may be a retailer in their own right on the marketplace
- provides the URL / brand under which you visit the website

lines are blurring

what roles are held by:
- Amazon
- EBAY
- Etsy
- etc.

not all identical...

is that the fault of the company - or bad legislation, or flawed understanding by the punter - the market places would argue that there is clarity - there is I suspect room for legislative action to bring clarity

[WyrleyD]

Glassman said:

I think everyonbe should be trained by Waitrose* or John Lewis*.

(*) Someone will probably come along and tell us of a bad experience they had now!

It used to be the case that they were the "GOLD" standard but not anymore, they outsourced their CS to Crapita and have gone somewhat downhill since.

[Spare tyre]

I worked for a small IT software house, issues were tackled head on, people bending over backwards to help

We got purchased by a medium size outfit, old school people were helpful, but others not so much

Got purchased by a large per outfit, most people now don’t help, let’s focus on selling stuff we haven’t written yet, rather than the day job

Purchase by a massive outfit, now we can’t log in, help desk flatly ignores you. We only talk about pipelines and you can’t get anything to work as there are lots of people making PowerPoints, but no one who wants to work is able to. Getting an office licence or your name spelt correctly is 6 months work and more

[RDMcG]

akirk said:

one of the recent trends in business has been aggregators / market places - where the company:
- does no work
- takes a % of the transaction
- takes no responsibility

If you think about a traditional small town / farmer's market - then it makes sense - why would the market organiser be responsible for the products being sold on a specific stall, surely that is the stall holder's responsibility...

however, online is not so simple - the marketplace:
- manages the transaction and takes the funds
- brands the experience
- may be a retailer in their own right on the marketplace
- provides the URL / brand under which you visit the website

lines are blurring

what roles are held by:
- Amazon
- EBAY
- Etsy
- etc.

not all identical...

is that the fault of the company - or bad legislation, or flawed understanding by the punter - the market places would argue that there is clarity - there is I suspect room for legislative action to bring clarity

Amazon is a logistics company that moves products and they do it well.

I have never enjoyed shopping at department stores or malls, or browsing automotive suppliers if I know what I want. They have a no-questions return policy and they are bloody quick. For a great many things I use them very frequently, and this is the value they bring. If I want to order some books, automotive polish and batteries I can to it all in one visit.

[Simpo Two]

I've got a good one going over a lock closure on a river. Having paid extra to use a navigation I cannot use, I raised the case with the Cam Conservators, who either knew nothing or wouldn't tell me, so I raised it with the Environment Agency - who tell me to ask the Cam Conservators. I suppose the plan is that eventually I'll get bored and go away.

[akirk]

RDMcG said:

Amazon is a logistics company that moves products and they do it well.

Are they though?

They also claim to be a marketplace
They also claim to be a retailer

When you buy a widget
- who are you paying?
- with whom is the contract?
- who is the supplier?

When you return an item
- where do you send it?
- who has the legal obligation to deal with any issue?

I would suggest that it is not clear to all users at all times and that is a deliberate policy of Amazon - they could easily change graphics or colours to make it clear that on one page it is provided by Amazon / on another by some company you have never heard of in China... yes you can get to the information, but it is deliberately all made to look the same...

[Phooey]

Since the recent days of easy money easy jobs easy wages easy life you don't need to offer anything more than FU service. It's the same prettty much everywhere - and getting worse. Standards are incredibly poor across many/most sectors today. No one gives a fk.

We need a big reset.

[kevinon]

Spare tyre said:

I worked for a small IT software house, issues were tackled head on, people bending over backwards to help

We got purchased by a medium size outfit, old school people were helpful, but others not so much

Got purchased by a large per outfit, most people now don’t help, let’s focus on selling stuff we haven’t written yet, rather than the day job

Purchase by a massive outfit, now we can’t log in, help desk flatly ignores you. We only talk about pipelines and you can’t get anything to work as there are lots of people making PowerPoints, but no one who wants to work is able to. Getting an office licence or your name spelt correctly is 6 months work and more

Such a dry, and accurate picture of big org politics.

[essayer]

Agree - my broadband provider were installing at my neighbours today - cut off the internet for 10 mins. No warning, no apology.

My mobile provider screwed up a new phone order and never delivered it, messed up my contract, and billed me for two months for it. No apology. In fact, that complaint is still running.

My last car had a fault and the dealer gave me the car back missing bits and said they'd call when the part was in. Took a month to get hold of someone. "Oh actually it's on back-order".

My 2mo old car has a fault and customer service practically wash their hands of it. Even though it's a 2 month wait for a dealership appointment and £20+ for a hire car.

"The customer is always right" is long dead

[Whataguy]

Yes, customer services is dying out

Bought a brand new car, had an issue with a dealer so contacted the manufacturer... to be told that they don't deal with technical issues and to try another dealer to see what they say!

Same thing with two Japanese car manufacturers - they have outsourced CS, you have no chance of getting hold of anyone to actually deal with issues.

John Lewis too, they used to be brilliant. If a produce failed they offered you a refund, a replacement or to swap for a different model. Also outsourced customer services and they run around doing everything possible not to be helpful

[Spare tyre]

essayer said:

Agree - my broadband provider were installing at my neighbours today - cut off the internet for 10 mins. No warning, no apology.

My mobile provider screwed up a new phone order and never delivered it, messed up my contract, and billed me for two months for it. No apology. In fact, that complaint is still running.

My last car had a fault and the dealer gave me the car back missing bits and said they'd call when the part was in. Took a month to get hold of someone. "Oh actually it's on back-order".

My 2mo old car has a fault and customer service practically wash their hands of it. Even though it's a 2 month wait for a dealership appointment and £20+ for a hire car.

"The customer is always right" is long dead

At my last place we could see the virgin box for connections from our lounge window

It had say a full patch of 50 positions in it which were all hooked up

When someone left virgin, obviously they don’t make a special trip to unpatch them, they just leave it- makes sense

However when someone new joined they didn’t have any spare patch capacity, so the bloke would just unpatch the easiest one. No checks just whichever he fancied

So when we saw a removal van or virgin van you had to stream something so you could tell it had become unpatched

This happened 3 or 4 times and left us for a week or so with no internet

They then had to come out and guess which unlabelled patch was yours

The door to the cabinet was never locked, so just flapped in the breeze

When the engineer left me and a neighbour always had to go and re secure it with giant metal zip ties, which the lovely engineer slings in the bush

Must waste millions a day, which of course I pay for

[Spare tyre]

kevinon said:

Spare tyre said:

I worked for a small IT software house, issues were tackled head on, people bending over backwards to help

We got purchased by a medium size outfit, old school people were helpful, but others not so much

Got purchased by a large per outfit, most people now don’t help, let’s focus on selling stuff we haven’t written yet, rather than the day job

Purchase by a massive outfit, now we can’t log in, help desk flatly ignores you. We only talk about pipelines and you can’t get anything to work as there are lots of people making PowerPoints, but no one who wants to work is able to. Getting an office licence or your name spelt correctly is 6 months work and more

Such a dry, and accurate picture of big org politics.

Boss will write a it request to access something

Dear it

Spare tyre
Flat tyre
Bald tyre

Would like access to the big jugs database

Please give them the same permissions
I have permission from xyz who is cc’d

Any questions please ask

Thanks BOSSMAN

3 months later we eventually get 1 with the right access, one with wrong access and someone with no access

To help things along they will give the bloke with the right access the wrong access now to match

The bloke without access now won’t have access because there’s not enough licences


You’ll then have a company wide meeting saying the phone helpline (which was never answered or you couldn’t call) is being replaced by ai

A good chunk of my day is wasted trying to get responses out of people who are unable to do their job for whatever reason

Always comes to a head and someone ends up getting the blame because they were unable to do their job because they didn’t have what they needed

[Elderly]

Glassman said:

But when something goes wrong, why do they think they can point the finger elsewhere?



Take some responsibility and deliver customer service!

!

There is a name for this: it’s known as the ‘Accountability sink’.

[InitialDave]

essayer said:

"The customer is always right" is long dead

Just to clarify, while I agree with how much of a pain this stuff is, the phrase "the customer is always right" is specifically in reference to taste/choice. i.e. you want to buy a car in two tone neon pink and russet brown, with the polkadot fur upholstery? Certainly sir, more than happy to have that arranged for you.

[RDMcG]

akirk said:

When you return an item
- where do you send it?
- who has the legal obligation to deal with any issue?

I would suggest that it is not clear to all users at all times and that is a deliberate policy of Amazon - they could easily change graphics or colours to make it clear that on one page it is provided by Amazon / on another by some company you have never heard of in China... yes you can get to the information, but it is deliberately all made to look the same...

At least in North America you send it back to Amazon returns. Generally a zero hassle process. No idea what they do with the stuff but I think it is probably scrapped or factored. I don't really care about origin if the product is of a quality that works for me.

[StevieBee]

RDMcG said:

At least in North America you send it back to Amazon returns. Generally a zero hassle process. No idea what they do with the stuff but I think it is probably scrapped or factored.

Same in the UK. Never had any issues returning stuff to Amazon.

A few years back a colleague discovered an interesting loophole in regulations concerning the return of Alcohol to Amazon. He ordered £700 worth of booze for a friend's wedding but a mix up had the best man doing the same. He arranged a refund and return with Amazon. Money was refunded but the booze was never collected. He tried several times and ended up receiving a message saying that due to current regulations, Amazon couldn't collect the goods and was advised to "dispose of them". I believe - and don't quote me on this - the transaction wasn't seen as a refund but the sale of alcohol for which a license is required. Amazon couldn't facilitate a non-licensed transaction. Two other colleagues tested the theory and enjoyed the same outcome. A third tried but the loophole was obviously closed as they came to collect his stash!

[Whataguy]

Amazon are very good for returns, if it’s through the post office you get a credit to your account within a couple of hours after dropping it off.

I believe that all the returns are just sold, not actually processed.

I’ve seen people buying random pallets of Amazon returns for a fixed fee. You don’t know what you’ll get, but could be lucky and it’s usable items that people didn’t want.

[loskie]

Phooey said:

Since the recent days of easy money easy jobs easy wages easy life you don't need to offer anything more than FU service. It's the same prettty much everywhere - and getting worse. Standards are incredibly poor across many/most sectors today. No one gives a fk.

We need a big reset.

This. Wot e said!


I work for a Govt agency. A lot of us take pride in our work. We are swamped by poor management who seem disinterested in the industry we work in.

One of these "high flyers!" recently told me "good enough is good enough"

What a shocking way to work.

Quality in the UK is by and large st. Look at the badgering you get from some suppliers to complete customer surveys. Even when they have been below par. Many of the surveys are worded such that you cannot give an honest response.

[Billy_Rosewood]

Lots of people trying to get rich quick using a company in China to drop ship the goods.

Essentially the company in China does everything, but some kid in his bedroom is using social media to market the product. The kid holds no stock and the product is shipped from China and returned to China.. Hence why they are stalling the refund until they hear back from there "partner".