Debt - Small Claims or Stat Demand (advise)
Discussion
So the history being i did some work for a client which was £7,500.00 plus VAT. The payment fell due in April 2024 but the client said he was having financial dificulties so I said as long as they paid a portion of the debt I would grant them time to pay, and agreed with the director/s of the company (in writing) that it would be paid by 28th June 2024. They paid £2,500.00 plus VAT of the payment at the time of this agreement.
Fast forward to 28th June and no monies were paid. The director/s said they were experiencing financial difficulties and therefore could not pay but would do so ASAP. The debt was not disputed at this point, nor never previously.
A week or so later I issued small claims paperwork to recover the outstanding £5,000.00 plus VAT, plus court costs, plus interest which took the debt to around £6,650.00. It was deemed issued on the 6th July 2024, thus they had 14 days from then to make payment of any undisputed debt as that is the only option available to undisputed debts. I chased them on Friday when no monies had appeared and the director replied saying the debt was in dispute for reasons which are comical. Formally, ie through small claims court though I have not recieved a response.
I suspect they are just buying time. I have emails & texts all confirming scope, agreement of monies, agreeing monies are overdue, spelling out reasons for non payment, and agreeing when they would be paid. They likely understand small claims could be drawn out for months if they are that way out.
So, my real question being simply, although I have started small claim proceedings against the company, in the now knowledge they are trying to dispute the claim, can I up the stakes by issuing a Stat Demand today, and looking to them wind them up in due couse. The money isn't 'that' relevant to me thankfully, so its principle now and I'm a stubborn person by nature, so will happily close them if that is what it takes. One of the directors also has another company which is financially quite good, so I'm guessing he would want to avoid another of his companies being wound up as would likely trigger issues on other linked companies financial records (with Euler, etc).
Advise appreciated. Thanks.
Fast forward to 28th June and no monies were paid. The director/s said they were experiencing financial difficulties and therefore could not pay but would do so ASAP. The debt was not disputed at this point, nor never previously.
A week or so later I issued small claims paperwork to recover the outstanding £5,000.00 plus VAT, plus court costs, plus interest which took the debt to around £6,650.00. It was deemed issued on the 6th July 2024, thus they had 14 days from then to make payment of any undisputed debt as that is the only option available to undisputed debts. I chased them on Friday when no monies had appeared and the director replied saying the debt was in dispute for reasons which are comical. Formally, ie through small claims court though I have not recieved a response.
I suspect they are just buying time. I have emails & texts all confirming scope, agreement of monies, agreeing monies are overdue, spelling out reasons for non payment, and agreeing when they would be paid. They likely understand small claims could be drawn out for months if they are that way out.
So, my real question being simply, although I have started small claim proceedings against the company, in the now knowledge they are trying to dispute the claim, can I up the stakes by issuing a Stat Demand today, and looking to them wind them up in due couse. The money isn't 'that' relevant to me thankfully, so its principle now and I'm a stubborn person by nature, so will happily close them if that is what it takes. One of the directors also has another company which is financially quite good, so I'm guessing he would want to avoid another of his companies being wound up as would likely trigger issues on other linked companies financial records (with Euler, etc).
Advise appreciated. Thanks.
Have they filed an acknowledgement of service, or a defence yet to your claim?
As far as I know, you can issue a Stat Demand at this point, it's still a debt. And it does escalate things, but are you prepared to follow through with the bankruptcy costs if they ignore it? Do they have funds to pay?
As far as I know, you can issue a Stat Demand at this point, it's still a debt. And it does escalate things, but are you prepared to follow through with the bankruptcy costs if they ignore it? Do they have funds to pay?
Your first objective was to recover the money owed. Now, after issuing a summons and meeting the first sign of defence (albeit very feeble), you've changed it to wanting to close them down, in which case I presume you will get £0. Stubbornness is a great quality but only if used in the right direction.
The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
Cyberprog said:
Have they filed an acknowledgement of service, or a defence yet to your claim?
As far as I know, you can issue a Stat Demand at this point, it's still a debt. And it does escalate things, but are you prepared to follow through with the bankruptcy costs if they ignore it? Do they have funds to pay?
Nothing filed to my knowledge, but appreciate things likely take time for the portal to update. I've received no correspondance though, either electronically or via post of anything being filed.As far as I know, you can issue a Stat Demand at this point, it's still a debt. And it does escalate things, but are you prepared to follow through with the bankruptcy costs if they ignore it? Do they have funds to pay?
I went to their offices to issue the Stat Demand yesterday and gave it to the director who wouldn't look at me even. Not sure whether they have the funds or not within the company, but I know they do personally, and also know one of the directors has another company which is relatively well recognised, so won't want any link to a winding up petition being advertised, as the likes of Euler would (ie linked companies flag up on credit references, etc).
As for whether I'm willing to go through with it. Yes. They have thoroughly annoyed me and I don't take people doing this sort of thing well, so am happy to add another circa 3k to the potential loss to wind them up, if that means they suffer, and they will as I know they are paid in dividends, so they would be then chased for overdrawn directors loans accounts, etc, etc. I understand the ramifications, and suspect they don't.
Simpo Two said:
Your first objective was to recover the money owed. Now, after issuing a summons and meeting the first sign of defence (albeit very feeble), you've changed it to wanting to close them down, in which case I presume you will get £0. Stubbornness is a great quality but only if used in the right direction.
The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
I agree with everything you say, and its his right to play the 'awkward' card, as it is my right to play the 'I don't care about the money, and will pay more and lose it all to destroy your lives' card.The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
Lets see how it pans out. I'd genuinely like the 6k, but I also enjoy this side of it having a background in law (albeit construction law).
Hobo said:
Simpo Two said:
Your first objective was to recover the money owed. Now, after issuing a summons and meeting the first sign of defence (albeit very feeble), you've changed it to wanting to close them down, in which case I presume you will get £0. Stubbornness is a great quality but only if used in the right direction.
The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
I agree with everything you say, and its his right to play the 'awkward' card, as it is my right to play the 'I don't care about the money, and will pay more and lose it all to destroy your lives' card.The director is, of course, playing the 'How to be awkward' card. He has no evidence that the amount is disputed, or why. He's just defending his corner. Call it being stubborn if you like. Will he defend the case? If he does, let it go to court, and fight the case, and if you do it correctly it seems you will win. Then you set about recovering the debt. More on that when you get there.
Court is rather good at defusing bluffs.
So in conclusion, conventional warfare to the objective, and then in the unlikely event you lose, go nuclear and scorched earth. Yes, I think that's all angles taken care of!
And don't forget there's always frozen sausages. Futile but immensely satisfying.
Hobo said:
I agree with everything you say, and its his right to play the 'awkward' card, as it is my right to play the 'I don't care about the money, and will pay more and lose it all to destroy your lives' card.
Lets see how it pans out. I'd genuinely like the 6k, but I also enjoy this side of it having a background in law (albeit construction law).
A statutory demand is a bit of risk isn’t it?Lets see how it pans out. I'd genuinely like the 6k, but I also enjoy this side of it having a background in law (albeit construction law).
Don’t most people just ignore them as totally empty threats? Unless you are prepared to take a massive risk over £7k.
Hobo said:
Well I issued this stat demand and the company has applied to the court for an injunction to stop me issuing a winding up petition.
B69 Sicilian, Richter–Rauzer, Rauzer Attack, 7...a6 defence, 11.Bxf6First pick from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chess_openin...
Apols for flippancy, it's late. Nail the b
d!Update...
The court hearing was scheduled for tomorrow at 10.30am, as the other party had sought an injunction restraining me from filing a winding up petition against them on the grounds the debt was disputed.
Around 30 minutes ago however the debt was paid, mostly.
As you recall, the initial debt was for £6,000.00 and I initially went through 'MoneyClaim' which meant I had to pay £455.00 court fee, and also was entitled to £1.32 interest for every day the debt was paid late. When they paid this morning, they paid the £6,000.00 debt plus the £455.00 court fee, but not the interest.
As such, I have written back to them advising that I acknowledge receipt of the monies albeit the interest remains outstanding and is accruing each day at £1.32 as previously advised by the Court, and therefore until this is paid in full then I will not be advising 'MoneyClaim' that the matter is resolved and this will still continue (as I believe there is no value for a CCJ).
I'm now considering whether I invoice them for the 2 additional days work they instructed I assist them with for scope outside of that for which they have paid, which was undertaken whilst on holiday in Barbados with the family. Part of me says to just move on, but the other part say 'f@ck them' and issue it and go through the same process again if they question it. Just not sure I can be bothered though.
The court hearing was scheduled for tomorrow at 10.30am, as the other party had sought an injunction restraining me from filing a winding up petition against them on the grounds the debt was disputed.
Around 30 minutes ago however the debt was paid, mostly.
As you recall, the initial debt was for £6,000.00 and I initially went through 'MoneyClaim' which meant I had to pay £455.00 court fee, and also was entitled to £1.32 interest for every day the debt was paid late. When they paid this morning, they paid the £6,000.00 debt plus the £455.00 court fee, but not the interest.
As such, I have written back to them advising that I acknowledge receipt of the monies albeit the interest remains outstanding and is accruing each day at £1.32 as previously advised by the Court, and therefore until this is paid in full then I will not be advising 'MoneyClaim' that the matter is resolved and this will still continue (as I believe there is no value for a CCJ).
I'm now considering whether I invoice them for the 2 additional days work they instructed I assist them with for scope outside of that for which they have paid, which was undertaken whilst on holiday in Barbados with the family. Part of me says to just move on, but the other part say 'f@ck them' and issue it and go through the same process again if they question it. Just not sure I can be bothered though.
I've now got the interest as that got transferred after my email.
They have emailed though to say they don't accept the debt to be genuine but were unable to attend court tomorrow and therefore reserve the right to seek recovery in due course.
As such, I've written back saying they either remove the threat of future action as clearly there is no negligence on my part, as they themselves confirmed some months back in writing, failing which I'll invoice the additional days works and seek recovery through the same channels, as again have it in writing them asking me to assist for those day, and in writing that they confirmed what they were asking me to undertake was outside of my original scope.
See what comes of it.
They have emailed though to say they don't accept the debt to be genuine but were unable to attend court tomorrow and therefore reserve the right to seek recovery in due course.
As such, I've written back saying they either remove the threat of future action as clearly there is no negligence on my part, as they themselves confirmed some months back in writing, failing which I'll invoice the additional days works and seek recovery through the same channels, as again have it in writing them asking me to assist for those day, and in writing that they confirmed what they were asking me to undertake was outside of my original scope.
See what comes of it.
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